Peggy's Not Well

[JohnF]

It started Wednesday night with restlessness and then nasty diarrhea that smelled like Hydrogen Sulphide from rotten eggs. I’d fried up some chicken breasts the day before and put them what she didn’t eat of them in the fridge, I really didn’t see anything wrong with them when I took them out to fry. However when I opened the lid on Thursday afternoon again there was this horrible stench so I threw them out. The vet gave me one of those probiotic kaolin paste tubes to dose her with.

 

Peggy ate 1 and a quarter wet tins of the Veterinary Royal Canin Gastro-intestinal food last night, but since then won’t eat or drink. She had horrible gurgling noises in her stomach this morning. Ate grass twice and barfed it up twice too. She’s passed a couple of diarrhea motions which are browner and not yellow like yesterday’s

 

So this afternoon it was back to the vet again for a set of blood tests including Liver, Pancreas, Kidneys, etc which all came back unremarkable. The only thing he said was slightly raised was the WBC but that was to be expected.

He gave her injections for pain relief, acid suppression, antibiotic, steroids too I think. So that was five needles she had to put up with.

At present she’s on the bed resting and not really fully engaged with anything, no doubt as a result of the drugs and lack of fluids today. So like an elderly human when they get like that.

 

She won’t have water when offered, nor when she walks by it, so perhaps I shall have to try to syringe some later, or perhaps a small bottle of electrolytes similar to Pedialyte. I really don’t know what else to do until she sees the vet again tomorrow.

 

Any ideas how to get water into her easily?

[XTRAWLD]

Low sodium chicken/beef broth. This can also be watered down at your discretion, but it's a signature move of a bland diet.

Edited July 28, 2017 by XTRAWLD

[ramonaghan]

Poor Peggy. It's so distressing when they're that pitiful and you feel helpless. Hopefully she'll turn the corner soon. Diluted Pedialyte and low-sodium broth are both good ideas.

[JohnF]

If I need to syringe it into her, how much and how often to give? I know she won't be pleased if I do that but I don't want her ending up on a drip at the vet's just because she won't drink today if I can possibly help it. And I don't want her to lose trust in me hand feeding either. I don't get it why she won't drink.

[XTRAWLD]

To be honest, when Ry gets a bug, I immediately turn to giving Colloidal Silver orally. I wouldn't believe it if it wasn't done successfully on a few occasions. Here is the dosages and frequencies for it:

 

1/2 tsp every 15 minutes for the first hour, then 1x per hour for the first day (or until symptoms subside), and then about 3x day for the next few days. Fast Peggy for the first day or until the D has passed, the second day give chicken broth, and then slowly ease her back into her regular diet.

 

If you feel like syringing her water/broth instead of CS, a little bit at a time seems fair (perhaps base it on the dosages of CS above). If her tummy is feeling bad though, especially given all she got at the vet this aft, you might just want to let her chill out for a bit without forcing anything.

 

I also use Slippery Elm in powder form and mix it with water to act like a slurry and I add it to food. It helps to coat the insides and calm everything down. You'll notice it goopy out the other end, but that's just the SE doing it's magic.

Edited July 28, 2017 by XTRAWLD

[palmettobug]

Do the skin pinch test--is she truly dehydrated? She may not be drinking due to her upset tummy.

 

Just FYI, it's hot-hot here, and Johnny doesn't drink like my Lab would, even after a good walk.

[Jerilyn]

Poor Peggy! Bad chicken will make anyone feel rotten.

 

How about a popsicle? Or maybe you call them ice lollys.

 

Lila loves to lick a wet washcloth, but I suspect that's a weird quick of my girl.

[JohnF]

Do the skin pinch test--is she truly dehydrated? She may not be drinking due to her upset tummy.

 

Just FYI, it's hot-hot here, and Johnny doesn't drink like my Lab would, even after a good walk.

 

Thanks. I'll stop syringing for now as she's had a cup full. The vet did that pinch as well as the tests and said she wasn't too dehydrated this afternoon, and as far as I can tell just now the the skin isn't staying tented. She did come out when I picked up the lead for her usual short late night walk around the block, peed and sniffed at usual things and looked for cats. Still not eating or drinking though. All I can do is hope for an improvement in the morning and then the vet appointment.

 

It hasn't been too warm today as it rained most of the time. Though she detests anything over 70!

[tbhounds]

Leave her belly alone tonight. Her tummy needs to rest-she knows best. If her blood work was ok-she's not dehydrated (her pcv% would be elevated). Give her the night and she how she feels in the am.

[juliemac]

If she isn't prone to pancreatitis, a small amount of ice cream (or freeze some yogurt that you self-flavor with peanut butter & banana) ...

 

and you know that gurgly tummies usually lead to paint-peeling gas, right?

​Hope Penny feels better soon!

[cleptogrey]

pepcid ac works wonders for those loud dramatic tummies. if you seriously think she is dehydrated your vet will administer sub-q hydration, have a consult.

 

rice is 80+% water, cook rice with chicken broth and water, raw chicken breast that are sliced/chopped up and offer small amounts warmed in the microwave. small being 1/4-2c at a time. once her tummy settles she should start to have some interest in something. but while their tummy is off, skip it, i just wait it out. i also use canned chicken breast, it's like tuna and has a very delicious broth that i dilute instead of canned dog food. felix and annie have personally told me that it's yummier than fresh chicken!

 

also, the foul odor of the feces is that of undigested food, so my vet informed me. we just had a similar bout in our home, i can skip mowing the lawn this week felix at so much grass!

[JohnF]

pepcid ac works wonders for those loud dramatic tummies. if you seriously think she is dehydrated your vet will administer sub-q hydration, have a consult. >>

 

 

Thanks, I gave her about a cup of water during the night by syringe. She wasn't too good at 6am with sunken looking eyes etc but I tried her favourite treat 'Corned Beef slices' and eating a little bit of that got her to take 2 or 3 laps of water from the bowl. (I figured as her kidneys were OK the little bit of salt in it wouldn't matter). Then every hour I tempted her with a corner of the corned beef by making it look like her stuffies were going to get it if she didn't have it first. Each time she'd take 2 or 3 sips of water from the bowl. By about midday she actually went to the outside bowl and drank a little. So she was quite a bit brighter when she saw the vet after lunch. Still a tiny bit of diarrhea, stiil very picky with food.

 

The vet today reckoned she wasn't worryingly dehydrated, gave her another antibiotic shot, another acid inhibitor shot, and to start tomorrow a course of 500ml Synuclav and 150mg Ranitidine tabs. The hope being that by tomorrow she will have settled enough to reliably keep the tablets in long enough. She said to boil up some skinless chicken thighs with rice and feed little and often if the dog won't eat the vet diet cans. Also said if Peggy refuses fluids totally to call the E vet in the city on Sunday for advice and go in for sub-Q's if asked to.

 

So the nursing schedule will be maintained and hopefully she will continue to improve. Nearly like having to nurse a sick child, only the child can at least tell you how they feel.

[greysmom]

Leave her belly alone tonight. Her tummy needs to rest-she knows best. If her blood work was ok-she's not dehydrated (her pcv% would be elevated). Give her the night and she how she feels in the am.

 

Whenever we have bad diarrhea or vomit it's always best to fast them for 12-24 hours. Let their system empty out and settle down before trying to introduce any food at all. A healthy dog can easily go that long without eating.

[cleptogrey]

"Also said if Peggy refuses fluids totally to call the E vet in the city on Sunday for advice and go in for sub-Q's if asked to."

 

best of luck and hopefully you won't have to go to the E vet. but sub-Q can save a dog's life. your vet's instructions are exactly what mine told me 35 years ago when my saluki had parvo. tiny portions of rice, a little at time. the rantinidine is another H2 blocker(i think not PPI) similar to Pecid AC. the new antibiotic hopefully will do the trick. keep us posted!

[JohnF]

Update: She's significantly improved and is eating boiled chicken thighs when the meat is pulled and put with some of the cooled broth (she had two last night and two again today with half a can of the vet's GI food that she doesn't like. Also she has been drinking water from her bowl on and off. I just hope it is sufficient. She was bright enough to do a little zoomies when I took her down to the park for 10 minutes too. I have to give the Ranitidine tablet and the big antibiotic tablet tonight for the first time, so I hope she hasn't gone off being fooled with a little bit of a cheese triangle.

There was still some diarrhea this morning but the later stuff that came out was better. Will see the vet again tomorrow morning. The vet says to bring a stool sample in after the antibiotic course is done. She also wants me to dose with broad spectrurn wormer (Milbemax) when Peggy's a bit better.

So I'm really not sure about a stool sample anytime soon? How long would it be before it was accurate to test?

[EllenEveBaz]

No idea on the timing of the stool sample, but glad Peggy is feeling better.

[JohnF]

Thanks. I expect the nasty antibiotic tablets will make her feel poorly again for a while judging on how elderly humans go with it, but I gave the Ranitidine early in the hope that it would stay in. We're not going to be out of the woods until the cause of the diarrhea, if it wasn't only the bad chicken, is discovered. Could be hooks, giardia, anything but, apparently, we can't test for it with all those drugs being used. I expect others on here know only too well that there's seldom a 'simple' GI flare-up.

[JohnF]

As I feared, she just vomited her food up after having the antibiotic tablets. And it's not helping that it is a stormy day outside either

Edited July 30, 2017 by JohnF

[Batmom]

How long between the Ranitidine and antibiotic? FWIW, what we do is: (1) Give 10mg famotidine (regular strength Pepcid) .... (2) Wait 30-40 minutes ....(3) Give meal or substantial snack, such as an egg or slice of bread or handful of cookies .... (4) Give antibiotic. Hope your girl is feeling better soon.

[NeylasMom]

I'm late to this, but for future reference I use coconut water when I need a dog to drink. Mine have all loved it.

 

I wonder if she didn't get salmonella? That seems to fit with the acute nature and timing with the chicken. Not sure why they didn't get a stool sample and examine it when you first brought her in?

 

Hope she feels better soon. Have they done Cerenia for the vomiting? If not, that might be a good option at this point.

[racindog]

 

Whenever we have bad diarrhea or vomit it's always best to fast them for 12-24 hours. Let their system empty out and settle down before trying to introduce any food at all. A healthy dog can easily go that long without eating.

Same here. I have found it to make a big difference in how fast they recover. Also the LAST thing I would give her is more CHICKEN. I would have to say that after this 'enough of chicken.' Whole Dog Journal did an article evaluating the pathogens POSSIBLY present in meat, and chicken was capable of supporting pathogens that beef and some of the others is not. Heck it upsets my digestive system sometimes when I get brave enough to eat it again and I don't know about your groceries but over here in the US they say that around 40%(if not more) of the chicken in the grocery stores for humans test positive for pathogens! Anytime you cook any chicken over here you've got to have bleach in the other hand to disinfect area the poultry may have contaminated. So sorry Peggy doesn't feel well. Hopefully it will get out of her system and then she can begin to recover.

[JohnF]

Same here. I have found it to make a big difference in how fast they recover. Also the LAST thing I would give her is more CHICKEN. >>

 

You're probably right, it ought not to be more chicken. Though ours is produced to tougher health standards in Europe and doesn't get chlorine washed, there's still too much of it that causes problems, probably as a result of firms cost-cutting. I wonder what might be better to feed her?

 

But all this is becoming a saga now and i don't blame anyone for not reading. It was a truly horrible night last night after that vomiting episode. It took 4 goes for her to completely void her stomach of anything but the grass she was frantically eating. She was restless and wanted to go out every 15 minutes, even to do nothing, until 3am. She was something like an elderly dementia patient with a UTI... totally out of it. Then she slept till 5.30, then til 9.00am. Not much sleep for me, and I have to work from home too.

 

I phoned the E-vet at 2am last night in case it was a blockage. They said as she had just vomited her food, had passed some stool earlier and her stomach was gurgling loudly that they were pretty sure it wasn't blocked. No other practical help other than to let her eat grass if that's what she needs to do, and take her to the vet in the morning. Anyway, abandoned like that out of hours, I had to do something so gave her a ranitidine, some simiticone (antifoaming) and half a gaviscon tablet, and these eventually allowed her to settle.

 

The vet this morning ordered no food till tomorrow, just water and an electolyte mix they often tube feed if she will lap it up. He gave another pain injection in case she was stoicly not showing it. Temperature was OK so the antibiotic stopped for now. Ranitidine was switched to Omeprazole (as it inhibits acid more and lasts longer) and told me to give a coated Paracetamol tab if I thought she had pain in the evening. I guess if we don't get anywhere with tomorrow's feeding (why it needs to go right) they'll be doing an ultrasound and X-ray

[macoduck]

Poor Peggy. i hope you both get some relief soon.

[Cricket57]

Poor Peggy (& you). I hope you get this figured out soon and that Peggy's feeling better soon.

 

Cricket

[XTRAWLD]

How old is she?

 

If she can tolerate it, go completely bland for a week. Like straight broth and rice. Nothing else. Sounds like her system is just done so ease her into food again doing this.....

Edited July 31, 2017 by XTRAWLD