EllenEveBaz Posted October 15, 2022 Author Share Posted October 15, 2022 Another dead rabbit yesterday. In the house. With no head. Quote Ellen, with brindle Milo and the blonde ballerina, Gelsey remembering Eve, Baz, Scout, Romie, Nutmeg, and Jeter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramonaghan Posted October 15, 2022 Share Posted October 15, 2022 12 minutes ago, EllenEveBaz said: Another dead rabbit yesterday. In the house. With no head. But did you add sauerkraut? Quote Rachel with Doolin Doodle Dooooo, boss cat Tootie, and feline squatters Crumpet and Fezziwig. Missing gentlemen kitties Mud, Henry, and Richard and our gorgeous, gutsy girlhounds Sweep and Willa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
palmettobug Posted October 15, 2022 Share Posted October 15, 2022 Hassenpfeffer, anyone? Quote Current Crew: Gino-Gene-Eugene! (Eastnor Rebel: Makeshift x Celtic Dream); Fuzzy the Goo-Goo Girl (BGR Fuzzy Navel: Boc's Blast Off x Superior Peace); Roman the Giant Galoot! (Imark Roman: Crossfire Clyde x Shana Wookie); Kitties Archie and Dixie Forever Missed: K9 Sasha (2001-2015); Johnny (John Reese--Gable Dodge x O'Jays) (2011-19); the kitties Terry and Bibbi; and all the others I've had the privilege to know Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EllenEveBaz Posted October 16, 2022 Author Share Posted October 16, 2022 I suspect that Gelsey is the gourmet gourmand in this case. Quote Ellen, with brindle Milo and the blonde ballerina, Gelsey remembering Eve, Baz, Scout, Romie, Nutmeg, and Jeter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2greyhoundMINI Posted October 16, 2022 Share Posted October 16, 2022 So late to this, but caught up and wishing you good luck. And hope you figure things out! Oh, and the headless rabbit? Ewwwwwww My girls thankfully have never got one in the house. Quote Greyhounds: Amelia (Cataloosahatchee 9.10.17) & Carmen (Rebellious Bird 8.23.17) Kitty: Biggi Paws (7.4.13) Horse: WC Kharena (2.28.17) Rainbow Bridge: Raider Kitty (4.1.01 - 8.12.21), Sidney (Kane's Seminole 11.14.08 - 9.26.19 ), June (Potrs June 6.1.09 - 3.1.19) Bella the Rottweiler, Kitties: Spike, DC, Gilda, Killer, Sophie & Nala Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EllenEveBaz Posted October 20, 2022 Author Share Posted October 20, 2022 UPDATE: diagnosis So Milo evidently has chronic lymphocytic leukemia (CLL), which is the best of the all-bad possibilities. I had been afraid to hope for CLL, because evidently it's rare compared to any of the lymphomas. He also has high globulin in his blood that Dr Couto recommends testing -- don't know if that's a side effect of CLL or a separate problem. Haven't talked with the vets yet -- evidently the main question will be whether to treat or not. Reading the info on the recommended chemo made my hair raise on end -- you wear gloves to give this (orally!) to your dog and you're not supposed to snuggle or sleep with your dog during the treatment period. Just in case you weren't aware that you're giving your dog poison. So that, and the side effects (which of course are ) have to be weighed against the fact that Milo obviously doesn't feel good. Dr Couto's interpretation below: Quote Milo's IPT is diagnostic for a CD8+ (cytotoxic T-cell) chronic lymphocytic leukemia (CLL). Most dogs with T-cell CLL have an excellent prognosis, and can go untreated for months to years. Most dogs live their normal lifespan with almost no clinical signs (symptoms). A very small percentage of dogs develops Richter’s syndrome, an aggressive large cell lymphoma that is very difficult to treat. For reference, I have seen hundreds of dogs with T-cell CLL, and only 2 dogs with Richter’s. I use the following criteria to implement treatment: 1. The are sick (and I can attribute the clinical signs to the CLL) 2. They have organ involvement (mainly hepatic/splenomegaly) 3. They have cytopenias (anemia, neutropenia, thrombocytopenia) or a monoclonal gammopathy I typically treat them with CHLORAMBUCIL (20 mg/m2, PO, q2 weeks); I use any of the compounding pharmacies, since getting the 2 mg tabs in a pharmacy is cost-prohibitive. If they are symptomatic, I add PREDNISONE (20-40 mg/m2, PO, q24h for a week, then half the dose q48h). Most Greyhounds (I don’t know about lurchers) do not handle these doses of pred well. Because his globulin was a bit high (at least for a Greyhound), I would also consider running a serum protein electrophoresis to see if he has a monoclonal spike; if that is the case, we should start treatment now. The main issue with Milo is whether his behavioral issues could be related to the CLL (I have never seen that as a manifestation). Quote Ellen, with brindle Milo and the blonde ballerina, Gelsey remembering Eve, Baz, Scout, Romie, Nutmeg, and Jeter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramonaghan Posted October 20, 2022 Share Posted October 20, 2022 So glad you have a diagnosis and that it's treatable (even if the treatment is a little scary). BTDT with the oral chemo and gloves, but we weren't told no snuggling (though Sweep's sleep startle prevented that anyway). We also had to promptly dispose of her poop and were advised to double-bag it. Though I don't have experience with chlorambucil, we had her on two other oral chemo meds (separately) and neither caused any side effects. Quote Rachel with Doolin Doodle Dooooo, boss cat Tootie, and feline squatters Crumpet and Fezziwig. Missing gentlemen kitties Mud, Henry, and Richard and our gorgeous, gutsy girlhounds Sweep and Willa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LBass Posted October 20, 2022 Share Posted October 20, 2022 Having a diagnosis at last is wonderful. that the treatment decisions will become clear and that Milo will begin to feel better. Quote Lucy with Greyhound Nate and OSH Tinker. With loving memories of MoMo (FTH Chyna Moon), Spirit, Miles the slinky kitty (OSH), Piper "The Perfect" (Oneco Chaplin), Winston, Yoda, Hector, and Claire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MerseyGrey Posted October 20, 2022 Share Posted October 20, 2022 So not the best news but at least you know what you’re dealing with, so you’re over the first hurdle. I have it somewhere in the back of my mind that the disease progression in humans is quite similar- it can be indolent for years and never cause *too* much trouble for many, but for some unlucky few it can transform and become quite nasty. for Milo and you that you fall into the first category Quote Buddy Molly 🌈 5/11/10-10/10/23 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FiveRoooooers Posted October 20, 2022 Share Posted October 20, 2022 Quote Old Dogs are the Best Dogs. Thank you, campers. Current enrollees: Punkin. AnnIE Oooh M, Ebbie, HollyBeeBop (Betty Crocker). Angels: Pal . Segugio. Sorella (TPGIT). LadyBug. Zeke-aroni. MiMi Sizzle Pants. Gracie. Seamie . (Foster)Sweet. Andy. PaddyALVIN!Mayhem. Bosco. Bruno. Dottie B. Trevor Double-Heart. Bea. Cletus, KLTO. Aiden 1-4. Upon reflection, our lives are often referenced in parts defined by the all-too-short lives of our dogs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2greyhoundMINI Posted October 20, 2022 Share Posted October 20, 2022 It’s not so scary… our Sidney was on Chemo for a while. Had to do the same thing with the meds, etc. It sort of becomes routine. Good luck! I hope Milo starts feeling better! Quote Greyhounds: Amelia (Cataloosahatchee 9.10.17) & Carmen (Rebellious Bird 8.23.17) Kitty: Biggi Paws (7.4.13) Horse: WC Kharena (2.28.17) Rainbow Bridge: Raider Kitty (4.1.01 - 8.12.21), Sidney (Kane's Seminole 11.14.08 - 9.26.19 ), June (Potrs June 6.1.09 - 3.1.19) Bella the Rottweiler, Kitties: Spike, DC, Gilda, Killer, Sophie & Nala Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EllenEveBaz Posted November 23, 2022 Author Share Posted November 23, 2022 We are going to go ahead with chemotherapy, even though Milo's problems appear to be mostly cognitive and not effects of the chronic lymphatic leukemia. At least I know what I'm getting myself for Christmas this year. Here is Dr Couto's assessment of low risk of side effects vs risks of not treating: Quote the probability of adverse effects from chlorambucil at therapeutic doses is minimal (infinitesimal?). I have treated several thousand dogs (and dozens of Greyhounds) without any appreciable toxicity. Honestly, I don’t remember the last time I saw toxicity in a dog (cats are different). Hope this helps, and as you said, “to treat or not to treat” is the million dollar question. As a clinician, I like to treat patients, rather than test results, but… If the SPE spike is monoclonal, as I suspect it is, it can result in neurologic problems, bleeding, renal deterioration, immunodeficiency, etc. Just for fun and light reading, here is him trying to explain some of the earlier measurements: Quote I reviewed the tracing and I am concerned that the “alpha-2 spike” (see red arrow in attached figure) may actually be in the beta region, and it may be clonal in origin (the “cuts” in the tracing are made visually, so they are a bit arbitrary). IgA (at least in people where there is more evidence) can migrate in the beta region, and I have seen quite a few dogs with beta monoclonal gammopahies over the years. It is uncommon to have such a high alpha-2 spike without marked increases in the gamma fraction and moderate increases in alpha-1 fraction(and Milo doesn’t have that). The only ways to prove this are by either doing immunoelectrophoresis (I don’t think that it is commercially available) or by quantifying immunoglobulins (if the IgA is really high, then it is likely a monoclonal gammopathjy). However, some dogs with IgA gammopathies have abnormal immunoglobulins that may not be detected by the assay, and consequently they yield a normal (or low) value. An indirect way to confirm that the alpha-2 spike is due to inflammation is to request a C-reacive protein (CRP) in the sample where they run the SPE (if they have any left in the lab); if the CRP is high, that tends to support inflammation (although some lymphoid tumors can also results in increases in CRP). In other words, Mr. Milo continues to challenge us. Please let me know what you think; thanks again and hope that Milo continues to do well. Quote There -- doesn't that make it all clear? We did run the C-reactive protein test and while that was not absolutely definitive, Dr Couto thought it was informative enough that it was time to fish or cut bait on the treatment decision. Milo is continuing being a model of good behavior at the vet's office, for which the staff are duly grateful during all of these blood draws for the tests. He's also continuing to want to be outside for long periods and not eat a lot. I feel very comforted when I re-read the posts some of you have made in this thread about the relative ease of chemotherapy. Thank you. Quote Ellen, with brindle Milo and the blonde ballerina, Gelsey remembering Eve, Baz, Scout, Romie, Nutmeg, and Jeter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramonaghan Posted November 23, 2022 Share Posted November 23, 2022 Clear as mud! I hope with treatment, you will see improvement in Milo's symptoms. Sending warm wishes to you all, and we're here if you have questions about chemo. Quote Rachel with Doolin Doodle Dooooo, boss cat Tootie, and feline squatters Crumpet and Fezziwig. Missing gentlemen kitties Mud, Henry, and Richard and our gorgeous, gutsy girlhounds Sweep and Willa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2greyhoundMINI Posted November 23, 2022 Share Posted November 23, 2022 Whaaaaaat? Well, you do what you need to do Quote Greyhounds: Amelia (Cataloosahatchee 9.10.17) & Carmen (Rebellious Bird 8.23.17) Kitty: Biggi Paws (7.4.13) Horse: WC Kharena (2.28.17) Rainbow Bridge: Raider Kitty (4.1.01 - 8.12.21), Sidney (Kane's Seminole 11.14.08 - 9.26.19 ), June (Potrs June 6.1.09 - 3.1.19) Bella the Rottweiler, Kitties: Spike, DC, Gilda, Killer, Sophie & Nala Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Remolacha Posted November 23, 2022 Share Posted November 23, 2022 I stopped reading after the first couple of sentences The gist seems to be Dr C thinks the treatment would be beneficial with little or no side effects and not treating could cause more problems. That would be good enough for me! I hope the treatment helps Milo feel better Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FiveRoooooers Posted November 23, 2022 Share Posted November 23, 2022 7 minutes ago, Remolacha said: I stopped reading after the first couple of sentences The gist seems to be Dr C thinks the treatment would be beneficial with little or no side effects and not treating could cause more problems. That would be good enough for me! I hope the treatment helps Milo feel better Quote Old Dogs are the Best Dogs. Thank you, campers. Current enrollees: Punkin. AnnIE Oooh M, Ebbie, HollyBeeBop (Betty Crocker). Angels: Pal . Segugio. Sorella (TPGIT). LadyBug. Zeke-aroni. MiMi Sizzle Pants. Gracie. Seamie . (Foster)Sweet. Andy. PaddyALVIN!Mayhem. Bosco. Bruno. Dottie B. Trevor Double-Heart. Bea. Cletus, KLTO. Aiden 1-4. Upon reflection, our lives are often referenced in parts defined by the all-too-short lives of our dogs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LBass Posted November 24, 2022 Share Posted November 24, 2022 20 hours ago, Remolacha said: I stopped reading after the first couple of sentences The gist seems to be Dr C thinks the treatment would be beneficial with little or no side effects and not treating could cause more problems. That would be good enough for me! I hope the treatment helps Milo feel better Warmest good wishes that the treatment will help Milo. Quote Lucy with Greyhound Nate and OSH Tinker. With loving memories of MoMo (FTH Chyna Moon), Spirit, Miles the slinky kitty (OSH), Piper "The Perfect" (Oneco Chaplin), Winston, Yoda, Hector, and Claire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EllenEveBaz Posted December 4, 2022 Author Share Posted December 4, 2022 Milo had his first chlorambucil chemo pill yesterday with no ill effects as far as I can tell. He gets a 19 mg capsule every two weeks, so there shouldn't be any build-up of side effects. The chemo will not get rid of the chronic lymphatic leukemia (CLL), but we hope it will keep him feeling acceptably good for as long as possible. Partly because of the 2-week interval, the cost isn't nearly as much as I had feared. Having 8 capsules compounded to his exact weight dosage and shipped packed in ice costs a little over $100 for an almost four-month supply. A bargain. Quote Ellen, with brindle Milo and the blonde ballerina, Gelsey remembering Eve, Baz, Scout, Romie, Nutmeg, and Jeter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramonaghan Posted December 4, 2022 Share Posted December 4, 2022 Keep up the good work, you two. Quote Rachel with Doolin Doodle Dooooo, boss cat Tootie, and feline squatters Crumpet and Fezziwig. Missing gentlemen kitties Mud, Henry, and Richard and our gorgeous, gutsy girlhounds Sweep and Willa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Remolacha Posted December 4, 2022 Share Posted December 4, 2022 I hope this keeps him feeling good for a long time! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Time4ANap Posted December 4, 2022 Share Posted December 4, 2022 Yay for no side effects! You're doing great, Milo! Quote Camp Broodie. The current home of Mark Kay Mark Jack and Gracie Kiowa Safe Joan. Always missing my boy Rocket Hi Noon Rocket, Allie Phoenix Dynamite, Kate Miss Kate, Starz Under Da Starz, Petunia MW Neptunia, Diva Astar Dashindiva, and LaVida I've Got Life Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Houndtime Posted December 4, 2022 Share Posted December 4, 2022 Here's hoping Milo feels better soon. Quote Irene Ullmann w/Flying Odin and Mama Mia in Lower Delaware Angels Brandy, John E, American Idol, Paul, Fuzzy and Shine Handcrafted Greyhound and Custom Clocks http://www.houndtime.com Zoom Doggies-Racing Coats for Racing Greyhounds Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FiveRoooooers Posted December 4, 2022 Share Posted December 4, 2022 This is great! Kept it going you two Quote Old Dogs are the Best Dogs. Thank you, campers. Current enrollees: Punkin. AnnIE Oooh M, Ebbie, HollyBeeBop (Betty Crocker). Angels: Pal . Segugio. Sorella (TPGIT). LadyBug. Zeke-aroni. MiMi Sizzle Pants. Gracie. Seamie . (Foster)Sweet. Andy. PaddyALVIN!Mayhem. Bosco. Bruno. Dottie B. Trevor Double-Heart. Bea. Cletus, KLTO. Aiden 1-4. Upon reflection, our lives are often referenced in parts defined by the all-too-short lives of our dogs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macoduck Posted December 5, 2022 Share Posted December 5, 2022 Love you Milo! Quote Freshy (Droopys Fresh), NoAh the podenco orito, Howie the portuguese podengo maneto Angels: Rita the podenco maneta, Lila, the podenco, Mr X aka Denali, Lulu the podenco andaluz, Hada the podenco maneta, Georgie Girl (UMR Cordella), Charlie the iggy, Mazy (CBR Crazy Girl), Potato, my mystery ibizan girl, Allen (M's Pretty Boy), Percy (Fast But True), Mikey (Doray's Patuti), Pudge le mutt, Tessa the iggy, Possum (Apostle), Gracie (Dusty Lady), Harold (Slatex Harold), "Cousin" Simon our step-iggy, Little Dude the iggy ,Bandit (Bb Blue Jay), Niña the galgo, Wally (Allen Hogg), Thane (Pog Mo Thoine), Oliver (JJ Special Agent), Comet, & Rosie our original mutt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patsy Posted December 5, 2022 Share Posted December 5, 2022 Hang in there sweetie. Quote Patsy and DH with the Humane Society specials, Linus & Jazz, in North Dakota Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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