Osteo Thread Part 9

[Guest eccentricorbits]

 

I would like to know which ramp you liked. There are so many out there, and the one I bought for the CRV was rejected by Crouton – too narrow, I think. Thanks!

 

Here's the ramp we used for Miles. He just needed a couple of assisted trips down before he was fine with it.

 

 

Solvit Deluxe Telescoping Pet Ramp

https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B0016HPTFW

[Guest Roux]

Thanks very much for the ramp link - that looks wider than ours. Now to do the measuring!

 

On another note, I rediscovered what I think is a very touching piece by someone who obviously lost a beloved dog and was able to express his thoughts. He was at one time the Poet Laureate of Oregon. I believe he wrote this in 1925, when Associate Editor of The Oregonian.

---------------

 

Where to Bury a Dog

There are various places within which a dog may be buried. We are thinking now of a setter, whose coat was flame in the sunshine, and who, so far as we are aware, never entertained a mean or an unworthy thought. This setter is buried beneath a cherry tree, under four feet of garden loam, and at its proper season the cherry strews petals on the green lawn of his grave. Beneath a cherry tree, or an apple, or any flowering shrub of the garden, is an excellent place to bury a good dog. Beneath such trees, such shrubs, he slept in the drowsy summer, or gnawed at a flavorous bone, or lifted head to challenge some strange intruder. These are good places, in life or in death. Yet it is a small matter, and it touches sentiment more than anything else.

For if the dog be well remembered, if sometimes he leaps through your dreams actual as in life, eyes kindling, questing, asking, laughing, begging, it matters not at all where that dog sleeps at long and at last. On a hill where the wind is unrebuked and the trees are roaring, or beside a stream he knew in puppyhood, or somewhere in the flatness of a pasture land, where most exhilarating cattle graze. It is all one to the dog, and all one to you, and nothing is gained, and nothing lost -- if memory lives. But there is one best place to bury a dog. One place that is best of all.

If you bury him in this spot, the secret of which you must already have, he will come to you when you call -- come to you over the grim, dim frontiers of death, and down the well-remembered path, and to your side again. And though you call a dozen living dogs to heel they should not growl at him, nor resent his coming, for he is yours and he belongs there.

People may scoff at you, who see no lightest blade of grass bent by his footfall, who hear no whimper pitched too fine for mere audition, people who may never really have had a dog. Smile at them then, for you shall know something that is hidden from them, and which is well worth the knowing.

The one best place to bury a good dog is in the heart of his master.

by Ben Hur Lampman

[NeylasMom]

Thought I'd check in and see how everyone is doing and also share a bit of good news. Violet started limping last week. It didn't present in a way that I suspected osteo, but still, it's always the first thought that comes to mind, at least for me. We went to the orthopedist on Tuesday morning and her x-rays were clear! Looks like a soft tissue injury in her shoulder. Absolutely no abnormalities on the x-ray, not even a calcification that would still scare the crap out of me.

 

Hope everyone is doing well. I'm missing Zuri like crazy at the moment. It seems to be so random when it hits me. Mostly I try to keep myself busy so I don't have to deal with it. I really don't believe it's been over a month that my boy has been gone.

[Annette]

Saturday was the GPA-WI Greyhound Gala in Madison, WI. Miriam was supposed to be there but she wasn't. Thursday she had an internal medicine consult and a fine needle aspirate of her liver. There were no cancer cells present. Because her ALT was still in the 300s, she went in for a biopsy on Friday. It was supposed to be a laproscopic biopsy but it didn't end up that way. They nicked her spleen. Once they stopped the bleeding, she had a full surgical biopsy. We picked her up after the Gala on Saturday.

 

Miriam does not take surgery well. She totally flips out wearing any type of lamp shade so she has to wear a muzzle. She still gets frantic with a muzzle on, but not as bad as the lamp shade. They had a Fentanyl patch on her but she had such a bad reaction to that we took her back to the vet school on Sunday. They removed the patch and prescribed Tramadol. She still was not eating on Monday, so we discontinued the Tramadol. She is only on Gabapentin and she is doing much better on that.

 

Her sutures will be removed on the 28th. In addition to the liver biopsy, they are doing a liver copper analysis and bile culture. We probably will not have all the results till sometime next week.

 

Once the results are all in, I will post an update.

[RaineysMom]

Hi Annette, glad you posted about Miriam, I've been thinking about your sweet girl. Praying everything comes back ok :Hope

[NeylasMom]

Sorry for everything you're going through with Miriam. Would a t-shirt (knotted up to eliminate the slack) work instead of the muzzle? If not,you could try a Kong e-cloud collar. She may still freak, but many people report the dogs use them like pillows and actually like them. Only about $10 on Amazon so maybe worth a try?

[Annette]

Sorry for everything you're going through with Miriam. Would a t-shirt (knotted up to eliminate the slack) work instead of the muzzle? If not,you could try a Kong e-cloud collar. She may still freak, but many people report the dogs use them like pillows and actually like them. Only about $10 on Amazon so maybe worth a try?

 

Unfortunately Miriam's brain is always on over drive. She has defeated the collar and t-shirts in the past.

[NeylasMom]

 

Unfortunately Miriam's brain is always on over drive. She has defeated the collar and t-shirts in the past.

What about something to keep her calm? Composure or L-theanine. Can't hurt, might help. Sorry for unsolicited advice, bit I get that particular struggle.

[Annette]

What about something to keep her calm? Composure or L-theanine. Can't hurt, might help. Sorry for unsolicited advice, bit I get that particular struggle.

 

I never even thought about the L-theanine. Miriam was the poster spook child when we first fostered her 5 or so years ago. She was on L-theanine, melatonin, benadryl, and prescription meds at various times. The sutures will be out in less than 1 1/2 weeks and fortunately or unfortunately I do not have a job so I am home with her all the time and I will sit with her in the living room when she starts to stress out and take the muzzle off.

[Batmom]

Might check out one of those inflatable e-collars if you haven't yet. Like a fat inner tube around the dog's neck. Not sure it would work in your situation but worth a shot.

[NeylasMom]

Might check out one of those inflatable e-collars if you haven't yet. Like a fat inner tube around the dog's neck. Not sure it would work in your situation but worth a shot.

That what the Kong e-cloud collar is.

[darcie983]

I am curious as to how long it took for everyone's vet to truly diagnose osteo? My Lou has had so many health issues in the past year and ya'll helped me with suggestions when I posted about his leg in a different thread.

Lou will be 9 (lord willing) November 19 and has been on Prednisone since December of last year when he was diagnosed through MRI at a specialty hospital in Irvine for spinal meningitis/myelitis. He has had ups and downs but we are coming up on his birthday in November which is about the time we notice something was severely wrong last year. The vet has since then placed him on gabapentin and we are dosing him twice daily with that, tramadol and we just increased his pred as well.

 

It's suspected that his back right leg may have a tear in a muscle that we are unable to deal with other than rest and ice. Yes...ice! 90% of the time he lets us ice him for about 20 minutes, several times a day. He has been x-rayed 2 or 3 times since the onset of this limp that he has had. There is a lump on the inside just above his knee but the vet assures us that it is not cancer and that it is likely a tear. Our local vet (not the specialist) did detect some calcification but that has been about it. He does have arthritis that was diagnosed almost 4 years ago. Due to his diagnosis last year, we can't put him under anesthesia due to a high risk of not waking up from it. His specialist's words "you will not have a dog to take home if he is put under." As un-sensitive as that may sound, he was trying to reiterate the fact that Lou is a special case dog.

 

I just wonder if anyone else was given the run-around about diagnosis. He limps terribly but does not act like he is in pain otherwise-he's a very stoic and strong old man. We have a doggy door but he struggles coming through it so if we are home, the screen and sliding door are wide open-influx of bugs is not fun but its worth it for him. Our neighbor comes over three days a week and lets them (I have two greys- Lou and Ralph) out for 20 or so minutes a day but she was panicked the other day when Lou was having a rough one.

 

He still eats all his food, sleeps with me and the hubby in our bed that has been lowered to nothing but the mattress itself-no box spring, no bed frame. Only the mattress so our boys can get up easier. He limps mainly on the right but with so much pressure being put on the left, he is limping a bit on the left now.

 

Reading and...well....crying through the posts-scrolling through intimate moments on here makes me feel as if I am in the right place with my questions and concerns...

I hope all is well with everyone both 2 legged and 4 legged.

Edited October 27, 2016 by darcie983

[greysmom]

If he has had the leg xrayed 2 or 3 times since the onset of a limp, and a competent radiologist has not seen any lytic changes in the bone of the leg (from toe to hip), then I would suspect your thought of a muscle tear rather than cancer is correct. After that long a time any bone cancer would have ravaged the leg bone. If you have not had his *whole* leg xrayed, that is what I would do next. I'm assuming the "specialist" you mentioned was an orthopedic vet. They should be able to diagnose osteo, if it was present.

 

If you want a truly expert 2nd opinion, you can send the rads to Dr Couto through the Greyhound Health Initiative. His contact info is in the first post of this thread or here

http://www.coutovetconsultants.com/for-ownersadopters/

Digital pictures can be sent by email by either you or your vet. The instructions are on the website, I believe.

 

Since your dog can't undergo surgery to correct the issue - if it is a tear - then it sounds like his current treatment is appropriate. A pain reliever (tramadol), a nerve pain agent (gabapentin), and an nsaid (rimadyl, meloxicam, or similar) are what is currently the norm for pain of this sort. The pred is for his myelitis? Be careful about drug interactions, and talk to your vet carefully about dosing protocols. The three drugs I mentioned are metabolized much quicker in greyhounds, and Dr Couto recommends every 6-8 hours instead of every 8-12.

[darcie983]

Thank you for your reply!

 

Yeah our boy Lou takes so many medications. In fact, they took him OFF the Rimadyl because of the pred and gabapentin. I will look at maybe dosing him more along the lines of 6-8 rather than the 12. Reading through a lot of these threads, the timing is important due to these crazy dogs. Not only are they fast on the track, they are fast with metabolizing pills!

 

Thanks again!

[ZoomDoggy]

Hello all. I am sorry to sort of burst in here like this, but I am looking for opinions of other folks who have been through this. I will preface this with the fact that I have already sent this image to Dr. Couto this morning, and have received an out of office reply saying I might hear back in a few days.

This xray is a foster grey's right proximal humerus. The dog is nine years old, and currently displays almost zero indication of OSA pain. Extremely faint intermittent limping, and a rare occasional yelp out of the blue. The dog has a history of intervertebral disc disease in the lower neck which causes occasional pain flare ups. But otherwise the dog is healthy and energetic. Blood work is good, but chest xrays have not yet been done to rule out metastases.

I am wondering if anyone here has had a dog with a similarly located tumor and had success with amputation. The first OSA hound I had, the tumor was in her distal radius, so amputation was relatively uncomplicated. I worry about this location, being essentially inside the entire shoulder area.

 

My goal, if amputation is an option, is primarily to remove the risk of spontaneous fracture. I am unsure if we would pursue chemo, or if this dog would be a candidate for that.

 

Thanks in advance for any thoughts on this situation. I am sick over this diagnosis. This sweet dog has been through a lot already, and deserves no further suffering.

 

[MP_the4pack]

I did the full leg amp on my 12 yr old. She did great for 6 months until OS hit a hind leg. That's whens he went to the Bridge.

 

She startled her doctors with how quickly she adjusted to being at tripod at such an old age. But we did do a lot of testing to make sure she could physically handle being a tripod at the ripe old age of 12. Dr. Couto said age is just a number.

 

Good luck!

[greysmom]

Typical front leg amps take the whole leg up through the humerus. Our boy had a back leg amp, but from what I have seen here in the various Osteo Threads, front leg amps are a little harder on the dog. Mostly because greyhounds carry the bulk of their weight on their front legs. Re-learning how to move around is also much harder on front leg amps - they have to hop more and it takes more energy. So his/her other legs need to be able to handle the increased load. He/She definitely needs to have her neck situation looked at to determine if the increased stress is going to exacerbate that condition. And lung mets should also be explored.

 

Barring that, as mentioned above, Dr Couto sees no barriers to amps at any age, provided the dog is otherwise healthy. Don't worry too much over the OoO message from him. He usually checks in every day and will take a look at consult requests while travelling.

[ZoomDoggy]

Thank you for your responses.

Yes, her existing IVDD in her neck is a big concern, re: getting on as a tripod. And yes, chest rads would be the first step.

I did get a response from Dr. Couto, after the Out of Office reply. His response: "If she is neurologically and orthopedically sound, there is no reason why she wouldn’t be a good candidate for amputation and chemo."

I feel literally queasy just thinking about all of this.

[greysmom]

bumping from page three!

[MP_the4pack]

Alas..........I have joined the club.(again) But I have an active thread already in H&M (Tanzi loses a leg tomorrow).

 

It was in her wrist. I had no doubt.
I took her to Metzgers, where she went thru the amp 2 weeks ago (tomorrow).

 

She's doing great now. really motoring around. And she's 9.

[greysmom]

Our boy was nine when he was diagnosed. I really don't consider nine to be that old! My current nine year old certainly doesn't act his age!

 

I've been so heartened to read Tanzi's updates!

[Guest Oaklove5]

Opinions please! My girl( almost 12) was just diagnosed (1 week ago) with bone cancer. A rather large tumor in her shoulder (which you can visibly see). She had been limping off and on for 2 months, and had progressively gotten worse. She was given pain meds. At the max dosage, there just wasn't any visable relief. You can def tell she doesn't feel good, and her limp is bad, sometimes to the point she walks on only 3 legs. Then other times she still has the limp, but it's happy and wants to walk around. I consulted the vet and we both agreed that b/c the meds aren't working, I decided it best to let her go. At the diagnosis the vet said it had probably been there a while. She has also lost 8lbs since April. I certainly don't want her in pain. I've read about this dreaded disease all week. My concern now is that I have a friend that thinks I'm rushing my decision, which is the last thing I need to hear. She also has no knowledge of this disease, and said all the dogs she had had to put down ended up not being able to eat or get up, etc. NO WAY I would ever let my dog get to that point. I think that is selfish and irresponsible. I guess I just need some reassurance from others who have been through this. Any info is welcomed. Thanks!

[MP_the4pack]

I went the amp route with my 12 yr. She did great. So make sure that is not a viable option for you before make a decision.

 

I just had to go through this with my 9 yr. She's doing fabulous.

 

Just remember whatever decision you make is out of love for her. No decision is the wrong one.

[EllenEveBaz]

guess I just need some reassurance from others who have been through this.

There's no easy decision. My osteo hound had been misdiagnosed for a long time, and when we finally got the cancer diagnosis, he was in considerable pain because of medications not being adequate. He was not a candidate for surgery because of other orthopedic problems and I didn't think we could catch up on the meds soon enough, if at all. I promised him, as he slipped out of this world, that I would never let another animal be in pain like he must have been. So that is my emotional baggage that I carry into decision-making.

 

There are lots of people on this board who have chosen comfort care only, and let their beloved animals die sooner rather than later. There are others who have structured their family's lives around keeping a dog alive and comfortable. It's a very personal choice. Your friend may be urging you on because it is emotionally important for her to fight death with everything there is. But you and your dog may be coming from a different direction. I've had a dog that I've let go very early because I didn't think he wanted to fight. (And I kept a beautiful lady dog going for longer than many others would have, because she had the spirit to do so, and enjoyed her life, as limited as it was.) It is your dog and your burden, not your friend's.

 

One factor that doesn't get mentioned often enough is finances. There is no shame in saying, "I can't think it is worth spending all this to give her just a little more time," especially if that money will prevent you from adequately taking care of yourself or other animals, now or in the future. Just as there is no shame in digging deep into your resources to extend her life as much as possible.

 

Again, and always,

Edited December 4, 2016 by EllenEveBaz

[Guest MnMDogs]

You're not rushing your decision and it's unfair for anyone to say that to you. We recently lost Macy to bone cancer at 12 and a half. The pain became unmanageable very quickly. But to see her, you would never know she was sick... until you saw her struggling to settle comfortably, or cry trying to squat to poop.

 

This is an incredibly painful disease and your friend was unkind to say what she did. I'm so very sorry.

 

Opinions please! My girl( almost 12) was just diagnosed (1 week ago) with bone cancer. A rather large tumor in her shoulder (which you can visibly see). She had been limping off and on for 2 months, and had progressively gotten worse. She was given pain meds. At the max dosage, there just wasn't any visable relief. You can def tell she doesn't feel good, and her limp is bad, sometimes to the point she walks on only 3 legs. Then other times she still has the limp, but it's happy and wants to walk around. I consulted the vet and we both agreed that b/c the meds aren't working, I decided it best to let her go. At the diagnosis the vet said it had probably been there a while. She has also lost 8lbs since April. I certainly don't want her in pain. I've read about this dreaded disease all week. My concern now is that I have a friend that thinks I'm rushing my decision, which is the last thing I need to hear. She also has no knowledge of this disease, and said all the dogs she had had to put down ended up not being able to eat or get up, etc. NO WAY I would ever let my dog get to that point. I think that is selfish and irresponsible. I guess I just need some reassurance from others who have been through this. Any info is welcomed. Thanks!