Osteo Thread Part 9

[greysmom]

Some people mean well when they offer advice in times like these, but you are the only one who can make this decision for your girl. You know her and you love her like no one else can. It's intensely personal and based not only on your own beliefs, but your relationship with your dog. There is no right decision or wrong decision, only your decision.

 

What we, and I'm sure your vet, can tell you is that osteo is hideously painful. We know this because people who have this disease tell us how it feels, so this is one thing we don't have to guess on with our companion animals. The main point of treatment once a firm diagnosis is made is to alleviate pain. Even amputation is NOT done to "cure" the disease, but to take away the most pressing source of pain - the primary tumor. We also know that by the time a tunor is big enough to see or cause a catastophic break in a leg, that the cancer has likely already metastisized into other areas of the body. It's only a matter of time before it shows up in an organ or another bone.

 

Greyhounds can be incredibly stoic. Never making a peep in spite of horrible pain. If you can't at least keep it under good control, her quality of life is going to suffer. It doesn't matter that she's still eating, or not, or still walking or not. Your choice is how long you believe your dog should have to live with what is likely very, very bad pain. It sounds like you made a decision, and most of us here are going to agree with that decision. Your friend is likely just trying to help in the only way she knows how, because she knows you love your girl.

 

I'm so sorry that you had to join this terrible club. {{{HUGS}}} for you and prayers for a swift and easy passing for your girl.

[NeylasMom]

Just posted about some meds & supplements I'm looking for a home for. Since these were all for Zuri's osteo, I figured I'd mention it in here in case anyone can use any of them:

 

http://forum.greytalk.com/index.php/topic/319645-leftover-supplementsmeds/

[Houndtime]

You love your dog. She looks to you to keep her pain free, comfortable, and at peace. Whatever route you choose, it is your decision as no one knows your dog better than you. I am so sorry that you even have to make these decisions. G-d bless.

[MP_the4pack]

I just wanted to let you all know that Tanzi had her third chemo and first post op x-ray. She's handling the chemo very well so far, and her x-rays were clear.

[Beachbum1]

I just wanted to let you all know that Tanzi had her third chemo and first post op x-ray. She's handling the chemo very well so far, and her x-rays were clear.

YEAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[macoduck]

Wonderful news!

[Guest bubbagumpshrimp]

Barnaby (reference1,099-1,101 from the other thread) went back to the vet yesterday. He does not have a BB in his back. Apparently that was an anomaly with the X-ray machine. They figured it out when a couple other people had dogs with the exact same size mark in the exact spot.

 

The mass on his back and vertebrae thing is still and issue. They did a fine needle aspirate of the mass and send it off for testing, but the vet seemed to think it was just blood and fat. They also did a blood test and sent that off. The next step, pending those results, will be to take him to an orthopedic specialist (we have one lined up) to see what's up with his back.

 

Edit: He's backed up as a result of the pain pills. He's "gained" some weight from his last appointment this past weekend.

Edited January 26, 2017 by bubbagumpshrimp

[greysmom]

Well. Some good, some not-so-good. But going in the right direction.

[greysmom]

bump

[seeh2o]

What is Dr. Couto's current recommendation for treatment of osteo post amputation, carbonation or doxorubicin?

Edited February 19, 2017 by seeh2o

[MP_the4pack]

I believe Carboplatin. That's what Tanzi is doing now.

[greysmom]

They are now providing free chemo again (carboplatin, I think) through the Greyhound Health Initiative.

[seeh2o]

Thank you! I emailed him, he responded quickly. He said current data shows best results with 6 rounds of carboplatin. I have joined the Initiative and plan to get it through them.

[MaryJane]

Such great information in all the "parts" of the Osteo thread -- spent the last few days going through most of them.

 

Adam had a difficult dental a few weeks ago and he had a bit of limping with the front leg where he had the IV .. turns out probably not from the IV.

 

First x-ray reviewed by Dr. Couto and most likely osteo.

 

We have some pretty good places in Mass for oncology, radiology, and chemo - there is Tufts, Angel, and NEVOG to name just a few. I've been reviewing information on the three so I can take the next step of getting a more expanded set of x-rays (other legs, chest) to identify the possible options and that will likely decide what course of action will be taken. I've used Angel before for osteo however, the oncology vet that I used is no longer there. NEVOG is closer to me however, they appear to have been taken over by another vet service. I'm using Tufts for my seizure girl but, it is about 65 minutes away.

 

The trials for the vaccine (UPenn) look like they are over however, it does not look like it is at "commercialization" yet. I will be talking to the company on Tuesday to see where that stands. There are some other trials going on so I will be contacting them.

[4My2Greys]

MaryJane, I so sorry to read this news about Adam.

[greysmom]

I'm so sorry...... {{{hugs}}}

[MP_the4pack]

 

Tanzi is currently 6 months post-amp. Everyone remarks how happy she is and how well she's doing.

I cried when I realized she had a lump in her wrist. But that was it. Even when it was confirmed, I had already made up my mind the path I was taking and we haven't looked back since.

I wish you the best of luck.

[4My2Greys]

MP, I'm glad to read that Tanzi is doing well.

[seeh2o]

I'm so sorry for all of us who have traveled, are traveling and/or will be traveling down this road. I so hope there will be a vaccine that can prevent the existence of another one of these threads.

 

Bowie and I joined this club at the beginning of the year. She began limping at Thanksgiving, but it went away with a course Rimadyl - until it didn't. We had 3 sets of xrays and a bone scan, nothing was definitive, but given her age, the fact that she's a greyhound and her lineage, we all "knew". I had decided that I would do palliative care only, we had a dog in our group who was approaching 12 months with palliative care (radiation, pamidonrate, etc.). Before there was a true verdict, I met with an oncologist, he doesn't work with as many greyhounds as others I know of, but he is very close and had very good credentials. He sat with us, me, Bowie and my friend who was listening in on my phone and went through ALL the options as well as the pros and cons of each and patiently answered my questions. Bowie was 9 years 10 months at the time, but strong, muscular and has a big confident personality. He never tried to push me in any direction, he presented each option equally. When I left the consultation I had completely changed my mind. Given her good health, strong constitution, I knew she'd be better off with amputation...I never ever thought I would change my mind, but I did. The osteo was in her shoulder, she's a big girl (the size and muscled like that of an average sized male), she would never let it slow her down and I could only see that she would likely break it. So, we amputated it on February 9. It was osteo, but localized and, mercifully, was not the highest grade tumor.

 

She was supposed to start her chemo about 2 weeks post amp (her amputation was done at a different hospital by a surgeon who operates on tons of greyhounds). I took her down to get her clearance on a Monday, she received his blessing. The next day she wouldn't eat at all, she's not a food-hound like the Sunsands twins were, but she isn't one to turn down a meal, so I knew something was wrong. When I came home from work she was panting, had emptied every bowl of water in the house and peed everywhere. I took her temp, it was 104.8, so I rushed her to the hospital where she had received the blessing to start chemo the day before. She was admitted, they began IV liquids and IV antibiotics and she stayed there for 3 days. Her chemo was pushed back by two more weeks, which scared me because of the delay.

 

I took her in for her first chemo and the oncologist said that, while he was empathetic to my fear about her chemo being delayed, he was actually really happy that she had a bad infection post amp and had beat it. He said that dogs who have this often have a longer healthier lifespan. He and I did not agree on which chemo medication to use. He had studied with Dr. Couto at OSU and at the time, doxo was the chemo of choice. I told him that I thought it was now carbo, which I did confirm with Dr. Couto. I told him I also didn't want to trade one problem (osteo) for another (heart damage), so he started her on carboplatin. We are hoping she can get 6 treatments all together.

 

Bowie is now 3+ months post amp, is doing really well, still plays and hops from bed to bed play-growling and tossing toys. She her 2nd and 3rd treatments were extended by 1 week because he felt her WBC and neutrophils were too low (though they were within normal range for a greyhound), so the following week we went back and they were up even higher. He has reduced the dosage of the carbo the last two times, but I have been assured that it is still within the range specified by the treatment protocol. She goes back next Friday to "restage", so she will have xrays, an ultrasound and a more complete blood panel. I'm saying a little prayer every day that everything next Friday comes back unremarkable.

 

Other reasons I chose to go with this oncologist - he is associated with a 24 hour facility close to my home, he sits on the state board for veterinary oncologists, he was highly recommended by every vet I spoke with including several grey savvy vets, the facility he is with also has a holistic vet (who I met with and as a result, added some additional supplements to Bowie's diet) and, a really big one for me - he supported me continuing to feed her raw throughout her chemo. He said that because she has been thriving on it for years it would be much harder on her system to switch her to kibble. I was so relieved to hear him say that. Finally, he strongly urged me to get her on a hemp oil with maximum CBDs. I've tried her on several, I think we're happy with the one from Innovet, that Petra Postma posted about on FB that she's using for her girl. The nice side effect of it seems to be that, while she has had no personality change and doesn't sleep longer, she isn't as alarmed by the sound of fireworks. She's not keen on them, but thus far, she isn't as panicked by them. We even heard one one evening on a walk and she didn't even pause!

 

Poor Bowie has had to put up with me being a helicopter, at least for the first couple of months. After she had her infection, anytime I see her panting for no particular reason, she found herself with a thermometer up her patoot! I've finally calmed down a bit, but am still a worry wart.

 

About 6 weeks after her amputation my mom passed, so she and Doodles had to go stay with a friend of mine. While I was gone Doodles took a turn for the worse, we'll never know what triggered it, but the day I flew home from going back home to help out my dad, I had to let her go. It has been so hard on both Bowie and me. Bowie has had to deal with being an only dog...which she seems to be acclimating.

 

Anyway, that's our tale of 2017 thus far. I hope it gets better.

Edited May 29, 2017 by seeh2o

[MaryJane]

MaryJane, I so sorry to read this news about Adam.

 

 

I'm so sorry...... {{{hugs}}}

 

 

Thank you for the good thoughts. It's been a tough 2 days - just heartbroken. Can't wallow in the grief though and have been busy looking at options and probable forward paths.

 

Tanzi is currently 6 months post-amp. Everyone remarks how happy she is and how well she's doing.

I cried when I realized she had a lump in her wrist. But that was it. Even when it was confirmed, I had already made up my mind the path I was taking and we haven't looked back since.

I wish you the best of luck.

 

It's good to hear that Tanzi is doing well. I understand about picking a path and heading in the direction it takes you - I was like that with both my other osteo dogs (Onyx and Jake), hopefully I can be the same with Adam..

[MaryJane]

I'm so sorry for all of us who have traveled, are traveling and/or will be traveling down this road. I so hope there will be a vaccine that can prevent the existence of another one of these threads.

 

Bowie and I joined this club at the beginning of the year. She began limping at Thanksgiving, but it went away with a course Rimadyl - until it didn't. We had 3 sets of xrays and a bone scan, nothing was definitive, but given her age, the fact that she's a greyhound and her lineage, we all "knew". I had decided that I would do palliative care only, we had a dog in our group who was approaching 12 months with palliative care (radiation, pamidonrate, etc.). Before there was a true verdict, I met with an oncologist, he doesn't work with as many greyhounds as others I know of, but he is very close and had very good credentials. He sat with us, me, Bowie and my friend who was listening in on my phone and went through ALL the options as well as the pros and cons of each and patiently answered my questions. Bowie was 9 years 10 months at the time, but strong, muscular and has a big confident personality. He never tried to push me in any direction, he presented each option equally. When I left the consultation I had completely changed my mind. Given her good health, strong constitution, I knew she'd be better off with amputation...I never ever thought I would change my mind, but I did. The osteo was in her shoulder, she's a big girl (the size and muscled like that of an average sized male), she would never let it slow her down and I could only see that she would likely break it. So, we amputated it on February 9. It was osteo, but localized and, mercifully, was not the highest grade tumor.

 

She was supposed to start her chemo about 2 weeks post amp (her amputation was done at a different hospital by a surgeon who operates on tons of greyhounds). I took her down to get her clearance on a Monday, she received his blessing. The next day she wouldn't eat at all, she's not a food-hound like the Sunsands twins were, but she isn't one to turn down a meal, so I knew something was wrong. When I came home from work she was panting, had emptied every bowl of water in the house and peed everywhere. I took her temp, it was 104.8, so I rushed her to the hospital where she had received the blessing to start chemo the day before. She was admitted, they began IV liquids and IV antibiotics and she stayed there for 3 days. Her chemo was pushed back by two more weeks, which scared me because of the delay.

 

I took her in for her first chemo and the oncologist said that, while he was empathetic to my fear about her chemo being delayed, he was actually really happy that she had a bad infection post amp and had beat it. He said that dogs who have this often have a longer healthier lifespan. He and I did not agree on which chemo medication to use. He had studied with Dr. Couto at OSU and at the time, doxo was the chemo of choice. I told him that I thought it was now carbo, which I did confirm with Dr. Couto. I told him I also didn't want to trade one problem (osteo) for another (heart damage), so he started her on carboplatin. We are hoping she can get 6 treatments all together.

 

Bowie is now 3+ months post amp, is doing really well, still plays and hops from bed to bed play-growling and tossing toys. She her 2nd and 3rd treatments were extended by 1 week because he felt her WBC and neutrophils were too low (though they were within normal range for a greyhound), so the following week we went back and they were up even higher. He has reduced the dosage of the carbo the last two times, but I have been assured that it is still within the range specified by the treatment protocol. She goes back next Friday to "restage", so she will have xrays, an ultrasound and a more complete blood panel. I'm saying a little prayer every day that everything next Friday comes back unremarkable.

 

Other reasons I chose to go with this oncologist - he is associated with a 24 hour facility close to my home, he sits on the state board for veterinary oncologists, he was highly recommended by every vet I spoke with including several grey savvy vets, the facility he is with also has a holistic vet (who I met with and as a result, added some additional supplements to Bowie's diet) and, a really big one for me - he supported me continuing to feed her raw throughout her chemo. He said that because she has been thriving on it for years it would be much harder on her system to switch her to kibble. I was so relieved to hear him say that. Finally, he strongly urged me to get her on a hemp oil with maximum CBDs. I've tried her on several, I think we're happy with the one from Innovet, that Petra Postma posted about on FB that she's using for her girl. The nice side effect of it seems to be that, while she has had no personality change and doesn't sleep longer, she isn't as alarmed by the sound of fireworks. She's not keen on them, but thus far, she isn't as panicked by them. We even heard one one evening on a walk and she didn't even pause!

 

Poor Bowie has had to put up with me being a helicopter, at least for the first couple of months. After she had her infection, anytime I see her panting for no particular reason, she found herself with a thermometer up her patoot! I've finally calmed down a bit, but am still a worry wart.

 

About 6 weeks after her amputation my mom passed, so she and Doodles had to go stay with a friend of mine. While I was gone Doodles took a turn for the worse, we'll never know what triggered it, but the day I flew home from going back home to help out my dad, I had to let her go. It has been so hard on both Bowie and me. Bowie has had to deal with being an only dog...which she seems to be acclimating.

 

Anyway, that's our tale of 2017 thus far. I hope it gets better.

 

 

I'm so sorry, it sounds like you have had more than your fair share of heart breaks over the last few months. Condolences on the loss of your mother and Doodles.

 

It sounds like Bowie is doing well especially since she is jumping from bed to bed. Hope the results are good with her checkup that is coming up. My first dog with Osteo also had issues with postponing chemo because of white cell counts however, someone mentioned in one of the posts that Dr. Couto would do chemo with lower than normal values because greyhounds run low anyway - there were no specifics as the the value in the post. If Adam gets to that stage, I will probably contact him again to get specifics.

[NeylasMom]

http://today.uconn.edu/2017/05/pet-treatment-triggers-immune-system-fight-cancer/

[seeh2o]

http://today.uconn.edu/2017/05/pet-treatment-triggers-immune-system-fight-cancer/

 

Holy crap, thanks for sharing this! I just emailed it to Bowie's oncologist.

[Cricket57]

 

Here is a link to Charlie'sDad's blog about their cancer fighting regimen - Charlie survived an incredible 4 years following his amputation using these natural foods and supplements.

http://pinneyandpnut...ancer-diet.html

greysmom,

 

The link for Charlie's Dad's blog comes back to this thread. Can this be fixed?

 

Thanks!

 

Cricket

[greysmom]

greysmom,

 

The link for Charlie's Dad's blog comes back to this thread. Can this be fixed?

 

Thanks!

 

Cricket

 

I can't for this thread. I will see what I can do when the next Osteo Thread begins (which may be a long time as we're only on page twelve). He might have taken it down by now as that was quite a few years ago now.

 

I just tried this link and it took me right to the blog:

http://pinneyandpnut.blogspot.com/p/charlies-cancer-diet.html

Edited June 1, 2017 by greysmom