Goldie's Nights Are Getting Better! Holding Off On The Anipryl

[Guest Energy11]

1/18 UPDATE:

 

Well, Goldie is doing wonderfully! :-)) She is BRIGHT, happy, and my girl again! WE ARE HOLDING OFF ON THE ANIPRYL for now, as the last few nights, she has had very few of her howling, barking, pacing, "episodes!" Last night, hardly anything! She has been on thyroid supplementation for two weeks today, and I think it is all starting to kick in! She is even growing hair on her cute bald butt!!

 

All I can say is, I had a vet lined up to come here to send Goldie to The Bridge, based on how sick she was, and what the vets here, and Dr. Couto were thinking she had (brain tumor). And, even after the thyroid was checked, no supplementation was recommended by my vet or MSU. Drs Beau (former vet/employer) and Dr. Jean Dodds disagreed, immediately! If Goldie's progress keeps up, I am going to say ... Drs Dodds and Beau, saved my Goldie's life!

 

The Anipryl was suggested by the above Drs. Beau and Dodds, based on Goldie's nighttime symptoms, BUT, if they continue to improve, why would I want to give her another heavy drug if all that was needed was something as SIMPLE as Thyroid supplementation? I know it is controversial in the greyhound community, but I think these thyroid numbers need to be revisited, and maybe more studies done.

 

Thank you ALL SOOOOO MUCH for your good thoughts and prayers! THEY OBVIOUSLY HELPED!!

 

Love and hugs! Dee and my "Missley" aka, Goldie!

 

 

 

 

 

 

1/5/11 UPDATE:

Well, Goldie is OFF the Prednisone and the Phenobarbitol (24 hours now). She is ON 0.3 mg of thyroid supplementation, two times a day, per Dr. Jean Dodds, and Dr. Beau (my former vet/employer, in Florida). For THE FIRST TIME in four weeks (**when she had her focal seizures and was put on the pred and pheno), Goldie laid by me last night, and "held my hand!" She always used to "hold hands" with me at night. She seemed MUCH more relaxed. BUT, ... then, around 9:30 p.m. "it" started again. The whining, pacing, barking and a little snapping. "It" went on for about 1.5 hours, and then, she settled down, AFTER 10 mg of Valium. This morning, after they ate (*they eat at 4 a.m. :-( ... she did the above for about 35 minutes, before settling down.

 

She is now on the bed, roaching and smiling! She LOOKS soooo much better, AND happier! I dont' know what will come of this, BUT, at least, for now, Goldie has a better quality of life! I will give the thyroid supplementation time to "kick in," before starting her on the Anipryl, which Dr. Dodds, said to start 1/3 the recommended dosage for Goldie's weight, and work upward.

 

Dh and I are EXHAUSTED, but, luckily, we are retired, and can afford to be pooped! :-) Goldie is worth it ... they ALL are, and we will just have to take it day by day with this old girl. Thanks again to ALL OF YOU for your support and prayers!! IT HAS REALLY HELPED! Love and hugs... Dee and Goldie

 

 

 

NEWEST UPDATE!!! Dr. Jean Dodds got back to me BEFORE she left for Austrailia and Hong Kong! Here is what she said, and ... this is EXACTLY what my former vet/employer, friend, AND hero, Dr. Beau, said, too! "-)) It might not make a difference, ... but, then again ????? Who knows!

 

 

"...Dear Deanne: Hello – sorry to be slow in responding but we're in Australia and leave for Hong Kong shortly.

 

These thyroid levels (T4 and freeT4 ) are to low even for a geriatric greyhound. Her T3 level is also low, indicating some concurrent non-thyroidal [likely aging-related] issue. Her TSH is discordant [false negative; not uncommon in dogs with this test vs people]. See attached.

 

 

 

The thyroid dose needed for sight hounds is half that needed for other breed types , and older dogs require les as well – so I suggest 0. 3 mg thyroxine twice daily – be sure to give it at least an hour before or three hours after meals and treats containing calcium or soy—to ensure absorption. ..."

 

***This is some FYI that Dr. Dodds attached.

 

 

FAQs: THYROID DIAGNOSTICS & TREATMENT

W. Jean Dodds, DVM

Hemopet/Hemolife

www.hemopet.org

 

 

Q. When do classical clinical signs of canine hypothyroidism appear ?

 

A. The classical clinical signs with low thyroid values occur only after 70% or more of thyroid tissue has been destroyed or damaged. Other clinical and behavioral changes can present during the early phase.

 

 

 

Q. Are basal thyroid levels the same for animals over the age and breed spectrum ?

 

A. No. All animals are not the same.

 

· Puppies have higher basal thyroid levels than adults

 

· Geriatrics have lower basal thyroid levels than adults

 

· Large / giant breeds have lower basal thyroid levels

 

· Sighthounds as a group have much lower basal thyroid levels

 

 

Q. How does one screen effectively for canine thyroid dysfunction ?

 

A. Accurate assessment requires:

 

· Complete thyroid antibody profile preferred

 

 

Q. What tests should be included in the complete thyroid profile ?

 

A. At least the majority of the following:

 

· T4, freeT4, T3, freeT3

 

· TgAA (important if breeding or for breeds at risk for thyroiditis)

 

· T3 Autoantibody (T3AA) and T4 Autoantibody (T4AA)

 

· cTSH poorly predictive (~ 70%) compared to humans

 

 

Q. What are some things that can affect basal thyroid activity ?

 

A. Results may be affected by the following:

 

· Basal levels affected by certain drugs

 

· Basal levels lowered by estrogen; raised by progesterone

 

[sex hormonal cycle effects]. Test during anestrus

 

· Thyroid levels are suppressed slightly (up to 25%) by corticosteroids, sulfonamides, overdosing iodine (kelp), and phenobarbital

 

· Rabies vaccination within previous 45 days can elevate TgAA by ~ 25%

 

 

Q. Is T4 alone a sufficient screening test for canine hypothyroidism ?

 

A. No, T4 alone can give misleading results. It can overdiagnose hypothyroidism

 

in the presence of non-thyroidal illness or use of certain drugs; underdiagnose hyperthyroidism in cats or from thyroxine overdosage; inaccurately assess adequacy of thyroxine therapy; and fail to detect autoimmune thyroiditis.

 

 

 

Q. How is freeT4 measured accurately ?

 

A. While endocrinologists may favor the equilibrium dialysis (ED) method for measuring free T4, because earlier analog methods were less accurate, newer technology offers other accurate methodology. These new assays are also faster and less costly .

 

 

Q. What is the diagnostic importance of measuring canine endogenous TSH ?

 

A. The cTSH test gives relatively poor predictability for primary hypothyroidism in dogs [~ 70%] vs people [95%], because the dog has another pathway to regulate the pituitary-thyroid-hypothalamic axis via growth hormone. False negatives and false positives (i.e. discordant results) occur in ~ 30% of cases. New research just published has shown that unlike humans where growth hormone has minimal influence on thyroid regulatory control, the dog uses this additional important regulatory pathway along with endogenous TSH.

 

 

Q. When are blood samples drawn for testing dogs on thyroxine therapy ?

 

A. Blood samples should be drawn 4-6 hrs post-pill for BID Rx.

 

· Blood samples drawn 8-10 hrs post-pill for SID Rx (horses)

 

· Minimum testing needed is T4 and freeT4

 

· Thyroid antibody profile preferred; a must for thyroiditis cases

 

 

Q. Should thyroxine be given twice daily or will once daily suffice ?

A. Dividing the daily dose q 12 hrs avoids "peak and valley" effect

 

· Achieves better steady state over 24 hrs; half life 12-16 hrs

 

· Dosing once daily results in undesirable cardiovascular stress

 

· Dosing should be given directly by mouth rather than in food bowl

 

 

Q. Should thyroxine be given with or away from food ?

 

A. Because thyroxine binds to calcium and soy, it should be given at least an hour before or three hours after each meal, to ensure proper absorption.

 

 

Q. After discontinuing thyroxine therapy, how long a wait is needed to accurately assess thyroid function ?

 

A. A minimum of 6 weeks is needed off thyroxine before an accurate assessment of basal thyroid capacity can be made.

 

 

Q. Why do some dogs over-supplemented with thyroxine still test hypothyroid ?

 

A. Because the body can increase thyroxine turnover rate and excrete it faster to

 

avoid thyrotoxicosis.

 

 

Q. Screening for canine autoimmune thyroiditis

A. Dogs taking thyroxine must be off this drug for at least 90 days to get accurate TgAA results for thyroiditis. Testing requires:

 

· Complete thyroid antibody profile

 

· Test intact females during anestrus

 

· Need T3AA, T4AA, TgAA; not just freeT4, TSH, TgAA

 

· OFA Thyroid Registry is only a limited panel

 

· About 8% of TgAA negative cases are T3AA and/or T4AA positive

 

 

Q. How is canine autoimmune thyroiditis treated ?

A. Thyroxine therapy will inhibit TSH output from the pituitary gland by negative feedback,which reduces further destruction of thyroid tissue by self-directed targeted lymphocytic attack.

 

· Treat all cases positive for T3AA and/or T4AA, or TgAA

 

· Don't wait until dog gets ill or has aberrant behavior

 

· If only low-grade TgAA positive , retest profile in 2-4 mos

 

· Treat with thyroxine BID; retest profile in 4-6 mos

 

· Always monitor with the full thyroid antibody profile

 

 

Q. Should dogs with autoimmune thyroiditis be used for breeding ?

A. No, regardless of the presence or absence of clinical or behavioral issues.

 

· Heritable trait, regardless of clinical status

 

· Screen relatives annually from puberty; females during anestrus

 

· Consider for breeding, if negative, after age three

 

 

Q. What about testing older cats ?

 

A. Testing older cats is similar to older dogs.

 

· Basal thyroid levels in older cats should be lower than adults

 

· Other illnesses often lower T4, masking hyperthyroidism

 

· Minimum testing needed is T4 and freeT4

 

· FT4 by ED method can be high in cases of GI, renal, and liver disease

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

LATEST UPDATE 12/31 Post 197

 

UPDATE .... 12/28!

 

Well, I was wondering WHY it has taken sooo long for the Free T4 to come back. Idexx Labs sent it to MSU!!!!!!!! :-)))))) YIPEE!!!! OBVIOUSLY, there was something that flagged it, and I AM NOW PRAYING FOR WHAT I ASKED FOR, FOR CHRISTMAS!!! God, PLEASE let this all be her thyroid! I can fix that!!!!!!!!!

 

I hope you will keep Miss Tapmar Goldie in your prayers and thoughts! She is looking sooooooo sickly and feeble with all the heavy meds she is on for this presumed "tumor ..." IF this IS thyroid, we can handle it easily, and wean her off all the horrible stuff ... aka, Phenobarb, Pred, Valium and Tramadol!

 

I will keep you posted, but I feel now, I have a glimmer of hope!

 

Thank you for your thoughts and prayers~ Dee and Goldie!

 

 

 

 

 

Hello, all!

 

Well, it has been ten days since my old girl, Goldie, had those two focal type seizures, and went to the Evet. Since then, I have been in touch with my vet here, former vet in Florida AND Dr. Couto. She is on Phenobarb, Pred, 1/2 of a low dose aspirin with Xstrength Pepcid AC (*per Dr. Couto), and lots of oral Valium, because of her nights, which are HORRIBLE!

 

With the exception of noticable problems with her back legs, (*not bad), Goldie seems OK during the day. Today, she has started a head trembling/tic kind of movement(s) too. Other than that, you would NEVER know she is a probable brain lesion/tumor. BUT, at night, OMG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Starting at approx 10:30 p.m.,, she starts whining, barking, wandering, pacing,staring into space, and, yes, tries to nip/bite, if you try to touch her on the head. This goes on for HOURS! Last night, 2.5 hours. We FINALLY gave a total of 10 mg of Valium, by mouth, and she settled.

 

My vet here wants me to DOUBLE the Pred, and the Pheno (slowly), and right after Goldie goes outside 10:30 p.m, ... give her 10 mg of by mouth Valium, to hopefully "head off" the nights from hell" .. .as I call them. I will start that tonight.

 

I, PERSONALLY FEEL that this girl should NOT be going through this hell at night, and it is quickly becoming her time to cross The Bridge. DH, is not in agreement, but I make the final medical decisions here.

 

IF, I don't see an improvement in this girl, (*and, personally, I don't think I will), I will most likely send her HERE AT HOME, this coming Tuesday. There is a wonderful vet in town who comes to your house. He sent my friend's GH a few months ago from the house.

 

I LOVE GOLDIE VERY MUCH, but I think she is suffering! The dog I see at night isn't her!

 

I am a firm believer in the "better sooner than later ... ", and don't believe in prolonging the inevitable (lost a husband to cancer under Hospice, and a dog to Osteo). BUT, none-the-less ... THIS SUCKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Just wondering what all of your thoughts and opinions are, and wanted to share this with you. I already feel like I have been through the WAR! Part of me would like to keep Goldie here through Christmas, but I am pretty sure, UNLESS I see a change for the better, with the increased meds, that would NOT be a good idea. ....

 

Dee

Edited January 18, 2011 by Energy11

[TheFullHouse]

Oh Dee, I'm so sorry. I hadn't seen any posts and was hoping things had improved. You know Saint's horrible seizures were always at night. I would be up for a couple of hours with him at night. It doesn't sound like the phenobarbital is helping much at all and to have to drug her every night is so sad. It's always hard when both parties aren't on the same page. That's what took us so long to let Emmy go, Mike just couldn't wrap his head around it and it was hurting him so badly but my head and heart was with Emmy so I know how you feel.

 

I'll keep you all in my prayers. Only you know when the right time is. If it helps at all, I agree with you.

[Guest Energy11]

Oh Dee, I'm so sorry. I hadn't seen any posts and was hoping things had improved. You know Saint's horrible seizures were always at night. I would be up for a couple of hours with him at night. It doesn't sound like the phenobarbital is helping much at all and to have to drug her every night is so sad. It's always hard when both parties aren't on the same page. That's what took us so long to let Emmy go, Mike just couldn't wrap his head around it and it was hurting him so badly but my head and heart was with Emmy so I know how you feel.

 

I'll keep you all in my prayers. Only you know when the right time is. If it helps at all, I agree with you.

 

I KNEW you'd understand, my friend! She isn't having seizures, BUT, ... the other symptoms are, as I said, HORRIBLE, and coming from me, you know, they are! I have withdrawn ... I don't leave the house, and my DS and his GF come, a week from tomorrow. LUCKILY, and, don't take that wrong ... , they will be staying at my WONDERFUL neighbor's GORGEOUS home :-)) FOR FREE, and you can see it from my house, and THEY are cooking my Christmas dinner ... WHAT A GIFT, huh :-))

 

Love you a lot!

[mychip1]

Prayers are with you at such a difficult time.

[maggiespet]

Dee - you, DH and sweet Goldie are in my prayers. And you'll know Dee. She'll look at you and you'll know that it's her time. I'm so sorry you all are going through this. Sending hugs.

[DesiRayMom]

Many prayers for Goldie & for you. I'm sure she knows how much you love her, and would want you to do

whatever you felt in your heart was the right thing/time.

[Jackandgrey]

I'm so very sorry. Reading your words my feeling is that you already have figured out the best thing for your girl. As all of us who have faced such a decision for whatever cause knows, it is so painful. But of course you know. I wouldn't dream of second guessing you.

[Guest Energy11]

Dee - you, DH and sweet Goldie are in my prayers. And you'll know Dee. She'll look at you and you'll know that it's her time. I'm so sorry you all are going through this. Sending hugs.

 

At night ... when her beautiful white face looks at me ... with glazed eyes, bared teeth, and all ... it RIPS my heart out!

 

I thank GOD for the THREE vets I can consult ... Dr. Karen, Dr. Beau, and, of course, Dr. Couto. I thank God for my medical background, and I think GOD for helping all of us through this, and knowing how, and when ....

[grey14me]

I'm sorry

[gazehund]

I am sorry you are facing this with your girl Dee. Never an easy decision. My thoughts are with you and Goldie.

[brandimom]

Oh Dee, I feel for you as this is not really an easy decision. Only you can make that personal decision and I don't know what is the right decision is for Goldie. I too look at the quality of life as I look at my Brandi who is slipping. All I can do at this end is send you hugs and tell you that the decision you make for Goldie will be the right decision. Sending prayers and white light for Goldie.

[CaliforniaGreys]

My friend,

 

I wish there were magic words, but they just don't exist. And sometimes, all the medical knowledge brings little comfort when it comes to one of our own and the decisions that have to be made.

 

I do know one thing, I know how deep your love is for your pups, and really, not just your own. I know that you are selfless when it comes to their well being.

I am here, will always be here if you ever need me.

 

You are both in my heart

[Guest budsmom]

I don't post a lot, but my thoughts are always with you. I'm so sorry you're facing this, but I know beyond a doubt that Goldie couldn't have a better or more loving mom looking out for her. I've been hoping beyond hope that this would turn out to be a stroke - I've seen an amazing recovery from that with one of our groups adopters. Many hugs to you, DH and your pack. Goldie knows how much you love her and that everything you do for her is done out of love. :grouphug

[Guest TeddysMom]

Dee, it is so horrible to face this and I'm sorry that time has come for you and Goldie. No one knows for sure when it is time but I am like you, I would rather be a day early than one day late. My prayers will be with you and Goldie as you face the end together.

[Guest Energy11]

You know, a good thing?

 

WE HAD THRE INCES OF SNOW yesterday :-)))) The dogs are all in their coats, and it is so wondeful here! The "road," is sort of "passable" in case of emergency, but, if not, I am "it,!" (for the medicals) I have an arsonal of drugs here ")

 

You all know how much I LOVE cold and snow! )) Well, my five were out in the second largest of my pens today, coats on backs! :-)) It was a sight to behold. Could I take photos? Heck no! Camera broke, BUT, new one coming tomorrow, via UPS!

 

The cold and snow is helping me/us through all of this, and the dogs LOVE IT ... especially my Missley Gold!

 

Just kind of ironic, .... THREE INCHES~~~~ of snow, snow, snow! Makes me smile! ... just an aside and smile to add to this, otherwise VERY sad post!

 

 

 

My friend,

 

I wish there were magic words, but they just don't exist. And sometimes, all the medical knowledge brings little comfort when it comes to one of our own and the decisions that have to be made.

 

I do know one thing, I know how deep your love is for your pups, and really, not just your own. I know that you are selfless when it comes to their well being.

I am here, will always be here if you ever need me.

 

You are both in my heart

 

God Bless and Thank you!

[NeylasMom]

I'm sorry Dee. No advice, just some commiseration. There's a chance I will be letting Neyla go early next week as well. Wow, it hurts to type that out, hadn't typed an actual timeline to anyone yet. Anyway, the thought of having to lose her right before Christmas is killing me, but obviously if that's what is best for her, that's what I'll do. So you have my warmest thoughts and my sincere hope that you can get her symptoms under control with meds to your satisfaction. I know more than ever how true it is that only you will know when that time is right and none of us can help with that b/c we aren't there and we don't know her.

[Remolacha]

I am so sorry you and Goldie are going through this. I know you will do what is best for her, and you will know when its time. I recently went through one of those "better a day too soon..." decisions with one of my cats. It is so hard, but I am sure it is the right decision.

 

edited to add for snow!

Edited December 15, 2010 by Remolacha

[Guest Energy11]

I'm sorry Dee. No advice, just some commiseration. There's a chance I will be letting Neyla go early next week as well. Wow, it hurts to type that out, hadn't typed an actual timeline to anyone yet. Anyway, the thought of having to lose her right before Christmas is killing me, but obviously if that's what is best for her, that's what I'll do. So you have my warmest thoughts and my sincere hope that you can get her symptoms under control with meds to your satisfaction. I know more than ever how true it is that only you will know when that time is right and none of us can help with that b/c we aren't there and we don't know her.

 

 

... You and Neyla, have fought a GOOD, and BRAVE fight, for sure! PLEASE, let me know if you need anything, and KNOW, you two are in our thoughts and prayers, ... ok? Love you!

 

 

 

 

 

 

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

[greyhead]

Dee and Jen too, my thoughts and prayers are with you. This is such a hard thing to face at any time, but especially at this time of year. I will pray mightily that the med change makes a difference and, if not, for the easiest possible parting. :grouphug

[Houndtime]

I am sorry to read this. Our vet, Dr. Newman once said to me, "Better a day too early, than a day too late".

 

You are Goldie's best friend. No one knows your dog like you do. You will make the decision when the time is right to give your girl freedom from pain.

[Guest Energy11]

Dee, it is so horrible to face this and I'm sorry that time has come for you and Goldie. No one knows for sure when it is time but I am like you, I would rather be a day early than one day late. My prayers will be with you and Goldie as you face the end together.

 

Thanks for your kind words! I hope your Bob is doing well, ... sending him ALL OUR LOVE, TOO!

 

IF ONLY ... I had ALL OF YOU when Bold Energy passed! ... WHAT an amazing difference it would have made!

 

God Bless you all for being here for me/us, and for caring! As I mentioned in another post ... I am TRULY BLESSED!

[3greys2cats]

I am so sorry for you and Goldie, my prayers are w/you @ this tough time

[macoduck]

Dee, in all your exhaustion in dealing with Goldie it's obvious no matter what that her needs are first in your mind. Never question your decisions. No one could give her a better chance at beating this. And you, more clearly than any of us or your DH, know when the time will be right to help her go. Enjoy her good moments. Know that her bad moments are not really her.

[LuvAPuppy]

Miss Goldie is in good hands

Hopefully the increase of meds, especially the valium I would think, will give her night time peace. It really does sound like sundowning just like you mentioned in the other thread.

[Charlies_Dad]

Dee, I am sorry you are going through this with your sweet Goldie. We'll keep you and her in our thoughts and dearly hope that she improves.