juliemac Posted January 5, 2018 Share Posted January 5, 2018 I'm so sad for you. I hope these next days are pain free. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BatterseaBrindl Posted January 5, 2018 Share Posted January 5, 2018 Nancy...Mom to Sid (Peteles Tiger), Kibo (112 Carlota Galgos) and Joshi. Missing Casey, Gomer, Mona, Penelope, BillieJean, Bandit, Nixon (Starz Sammie), Ruby (Watch Me Dash) Nigel (Nigel), and especially little Mario, waiting at the Bridge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riverhound Posted January 5, 2018 Share Posted January 5, 2018 Damn it. Masterful Joe and Naughty N Nice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MP_the4pack Posted January 5, 2018 Author Share Posted January 5, 2018 Might I suggest that if you talk to Dr Couto - find out his opinion on doing tramadol (50mg) 4 times a day and the gabapentin 3 times a day but, at less of a dose (maybe 300). Just my opinion but, I found more frequent dosing worked better as you are medicating before the pain breaks through. I agree with more smaller doses. I tried to get the vets to go that route. So I'm going to wait for Dr Couto. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batmom Posted January 5, 2018 Share Posted January 5, 2018 I'm sorry for your news. Star aka Starz Ovation (Ronco x Oneco Maggie*, litter #48538), Coco aka Low Key (Kiowa Mon Manny x Party Hardy, litter # 59881), and mom in IllinoisWe miss Reko Batman (Trouper Zeke x Marque Louisiana), 11/15/95-6/29/06, Rocco the thistledown whippet, 04/29/93-10/14/08, Reko Zema (Mo Kick x Reko Princess), 8/16/98-4/18/10, the most beautiful girl in the whole USA, my good egg Joseph aka Won by a Nose (Oneco Cufflink x Buy Back), 09/22/2003-03/01/2013, and our gentle sweet Gidget (Digitizer, Dodgem by Design x Sobe Mulberry), 1/29/2006-11/22/2014, gone much too soon. Never forgetting CJC's Buckshot, 1/2/07-10/25/10. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaFlaca Posted January 5, 2018 Share Posted January 5, 2018 Thinking of you and beautiful Tanzi this morning. I hope that she is comfortable. Please be aware that the Tramadol might make her seem depressed - it had that effect on my Wendy. I hated seeing my spunky, funny girl so down. Irene ~ Owned and Operated by Jenny (Jenny Rocks ~ 11/24/17) ~ JRo, Jenny from the Track Lola (AMF Won't Forget ~ 04/29/15 -07/22/19) - My girl. I'll always love you. Wendy (Lost Footing ~ 12/11/05 - 08/18/17) ~ Forever in our hearts. "I am yours, you are mine". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dante2zoe Posted January 5, 2018 Share Posted January 5, 2018 I am so very sorry. We were all hoping for better results. Cindy with Miss Fancypants, Paris Bueller, Zeke, and Angus Dante (Dg's Boyd), Zoe (In a While), Brady (Devilish Effect), Goose (BG Shotgun), Maverick (BG ShoMe), Maggie (All Trades Jax), Sherman (LNB Herman Bad) and Indy (BYB whippet) forever in my heart The flame that burns the brightest, burns the fastest and leaves the biggest shadow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MP_the4pack Posted January 5, 2018 Author Share Posted January 5, 2018 Wow, I just heard from Dr Couto. He said 100 mg Tramadol 3 times a day and 200 mg gabapentin 3 times a day is maxed for her. This amount was what she was on before I spoke to her vets after the CT. Her vets upped the amount to 1800 per day. I'm surprised. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Remolacha Posted January 5, 2018 Share Posted January 5, 2018 That’s surprising! I am taking a higher dose of Gabapentin than that, for much less pain. Of course, I weigh about 100 lbs more han Tanzi, but still. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DustysMom Posted January 5, 2018 Share Posted January 5, 2018 So sorry to read this Years ago I gave Dusty (87 lbs) one gabapentin. He could barely move the whole day. Maybe just him though. Don't know if that reaction could increase fall risk for your beautiful girl. Thinking of you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greyhoundlady Posted January 5, 2018 Share Posted January 5, 2018 I can't give advice on the meds, but I am sending you and Tanzi prayers and comfort wishes. I understand how hard this all is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeylasMom Posted January 5, 2018 Share Posted January 5, 2018 I hate to say this, but Dr Couto is just flat out incorrect. I'll dig up a good article on pain mgt that includes dosages and post shortly. Jen, CPDT-KA with Zuri, lab in a greyhound suit, Violet, formerly known as Faith, Skye, the permanent puppy, Cisco, resident cat, and my baby girl Neyla, forever in my heart "The great thing about science is that you're free to disagree with it, but you'll be wrong." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XTRAWLD Posted January 5, 2018 Share Posted January 5, 2018 (edited) I hate to say this, but Dr Couto is just flat out incorrect. I'll dig up a good article on pain mgt that includes dosages and post shortly. I agree. Especially if you have days left, just get her back on the amount prior in the very least since she tolerated it. She shouldn't be in pain. What I find interesting is that you've heard back from him. He's been silent for me since US Thanksgiving even after multiple follow-ups. I wish Tanzi and you all the best. So tough.... Edited January 5, 2018 by XTRAWLD Proudly owned by:10 year old "Ryder" CR Redman Gotcha May 201012.5 year old Angel "Kasey" Goodbye Kasey Gotcha July 2005-Aug 1, 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeylasMom Posted January 5, 2018 Share Posted January 5, 2018 Here is the article on pain management and dosing. Note the upper range of Gabapentin mentioned (nearly 4000 kg of Gabapentin a day for a 70 lb dog).http://www.vasg.org/newer_options_for_chronic_pain_management.htm You mentioned Gaba and Tramadol, but not an NSAID. You really need an NSAID as part of your protocol if you aren't already using one. I found Tramadol the least useful. The NSAIDs seemed to provide both of my dogs with the best pain relief but you're much more limited in dosing with those, so Gabapentin, which also seems to work very well in terms of pain reduction and has such high safety margins is quite useful. If it helps, Zuri was up to 500-600 mg every 6 hours at the end. You do need to be careful about wooziness. Zuri would sometimes get a little stumbly with dose increases, but within a day or two at the most it would go away. The way we mitigated that as we started increasing later on was to give more smaller doses per day (we switched from 3 to 4 toward the end, which meant getting up in the middle of the night for me, but was worth it - 2 a day is definitely not enough with the short half life of Gabapentin) and more importantly, when we increased, we only increased one dose for the day. So if has was on 300 mg 3x/day the day we increased I would give 300 in the AM and mid-day and give 400 at night. Then once side effects resolved, I would give 400 first thing, 300 mid-day, and 400 at night. And then finally I would give 400 at all 3 doses. Hope that helps and I'm sorry for the bad news. Jen, CPDT-KA with Zuri, lab in a greyhound suit, Violet, formerly known as Faith, Skye, the permanent puppy, Cisco, resident cat, and my baby girl Neyla, forever in my heart "The great thing about science is that you're free to disagree with it, but you'll be wrong." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MP_the4pack Posted January 5, 2018 Author Share Posted January 5, 2018 It took 2 days, cerenia, metronidazole and Prilosec before she started eating again after a week of Rimadyl. I don't know what nsaids would work, and the vets didn't offer another alternative to Rimadyl. But I've already broke all the doctors advise. The Tramadol is staying the same, but I'm giving 200 mg 5 times a day. It is 100 more than the vets said. But I'm stretching it out. Thanks for the article. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeylasMom Posted January 5, 2018 Share Posted January 5, 2018 (edited) Any NSAID would work. You could ask your vet which might be easier on the stomach, but Galliprant might be a good option. There's another medication in a totally different class (info in that link) called Amantadine, but it's supposed to enhance the effect of other drugs so likely wouldn't be a good idea if you don't have an NSAID on board. There's also Tylenol (it is safe for dogs - talk to your vet about dosing) and then there are options like Codeine, Fentanyl, etc. but you're really getting into side effect territory with those. But if she can't do the NSAID the Tylenol might be worth trying. The only other thing I will add - based mostly on my conversations with a vet who specializes in hospice and end of life care - Tramadol doesn't work the same in dogs as it does in humans. It doesn't actually relieve pain, supposedly it simply blocks pain receptors. Her feeling is it doesn't do all that much except cause sedation. She was much more in favor of Gabapentin. So I would focus on upping that as you move forward though you could switch to giving the Tramadol dose every 6 hours as well if you feel it's helping. I think you're saying you're giving the Gabapentin 5 times a day? That's probably excessive - 4 times per day is sufficient. I would probably alternate 200 and 300 based on what you're already doing, so 200/300/200/300 and then if there are no side effects and you aren't happy with the pain relief you can increase another dose to 300 and then another. ETA: And then there's always hemp or CBD products. Edited January 5, 2018 by NeylasMom Jen, CPDT-KA with Zuri, lab in a greyhound suit, Violet, formerly known as Faith, Skye, the permanent puppy, Cisco, resident cat, and my baby girl Neyla, forever in my heart "The great thing about science is that you're free to disagree with it, but you'll be wrong." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MP_the4pack Posted January 6, 2018 Author Share Posted January 6, 2018 I was doing 200/200/100/200/200 which is less than what you had down in 4 times a day. I'll talk to my vets about some of the options you mentioned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greysmom Posted January 6, 2018 Share Posted January 6, 2018 Liquid meloxicam is easier on the stomach than any other nsaid in pill form, and you can dose it much more accurately. I've also had much better pain control with codeine sulfate than with tramadol, on multiple dogs. But, if you only have a short time with her, you don't want to waste it running back and forth to the vet and the pharmacy. Use what works out of what you have, and when you can't control her pain any longer, it's likely time. {{{HUGS}}}} Chris - Mom to: Felicity (DeLand), and Andi (Braska Pandora) siggy by Chris Harper, on Flickr Angels: Libby (Everlast), Dorie (Dog Gone Holly), Dude (TNJ VooDoo), Copper (Kid's Copper), Cash (GSI Payncash), Toni (LPH Cry Baby), Whiskey (KT's Phys Ed), Atom, Lilly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaryJane Posted January 6, 2018 Share Posted January 6, 2018 Did I read it incorrectly - are you giving 200mg tramadol five times a day (1000 per day) - I think that is over the safe dosage. Please check that again ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeylasMom Posted January 6, 2018 Share Posted January 6, 2018 I was doing 200/200/100/200/200 which is less than what you had down in 4 times a day. I'll talk to my vets about some of the options you mentioned. Sorry if I wasn't clear. I meant excessive in times per day, not amount. Your total per day could be way higher, I just don't think you benefit much from dosing 5 times a day rather than 4. Jen, CPDT-KA with Zuri, lab in a greyhound suit, Violet, formerly known as Faith, Skye, the permanent puppy, Cisco, resident cat, and my baby girl Neyla, forever in my heart "The great thing about science is that you're free to disagree with it, but you'll be wrong." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaFlaca Posted January 6, 2018 Share Posted January 6, 2018 How is Tanzi doing today? How are you holding up? God, this sucks! I hate that you two are going through this. Gentle hugs. Irene ~ Owned and Operated by Jenny (Jenny Rocks ~ 11/24/17) ~ JRo, Jenny from the Track Lola (AMF Won't Forget ~ 04/29/15 -07/22/19) - My girl. I'll always love you. Wendy (Lost Footing ~ 12/11/05 - 08/18/17) ~ Forever in our hearts. "I am yours, you are mine". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MP_the4pack Posted January 6, 2018 Author Share Posted January 6, 2018 My above info was only for gabapentin. Tramadol is 100/3 times a day. She slept very well last night, getting up twice. Once to change position and once to go out. She woke up with piss and vinegar. Feeling very good. Even attacking a toy. So we went to the bank, one of her favorite places. I told them it was probably her last visit. On the way home she was very whiney and couldn't sit still. I finally pulled over and took her coat off.(it's 7 degrees here) That was it. That stinker. Here I'm all worried she's in pain, or the meds are making her anxious. The visit was too much. And she just didn't want her coat on. So yesterday I was wondering if she was going to make it a week. Today I'm almost sure she will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Remolacha Posted January 6, 2018 Share Posted January 6, 2018 So glad to hear she is having a good day Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sarabz Posted January 6, 2018 Share Posted January 6, 2018 Love this update Dave (GLS DeviousDavid) - 6/27/18 Gracie (AMF Saying Grace) - 10/21/12 Bella (KT Britta) - 4/29/05 to 2/13/20 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XTRAWLD Posted January 6, 2018 Share Posted January 6, 2018 They will have good days and bad days. It makes going through the bad stuff worth it. Enjoy your day with her today! Proudly owned by:10 year old "Ryder" CR Redman Gotcha May 201012.5 year old Angel "Kasey" Goodbye Kasey Gotcha July 2005-Aug 1, 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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