Osteo Thread Part 9

[mjmcmurray]

Quick update on Sherlock: sadly his normal oncology specialist who was conveniently at our regular vet's office had to take a leave of absence, so we've been scrambling trying to find a new oncologist for next steps. 

He's got some staging tests scheduled for next week -- chest x-ray and abdominal ultrasound -- and then we're going to be trying Zolendronate treatment for pain management, starting with one every few weeks.

If anyone has recommendations for dog-friendly CBD oils, would also like to try that! The poor thing is limping quite a bit this week despite his Meloxicam and Gabapentin, hate seeing him so uncomfy. 

[greysmom]

The way our oncologist explained the "low carb food" issue was to say that if low carb was that helpful in curbing the spread of cancer then it would be universal in human medicine.  Since no studies or science exists to say it helps in the least, she said it wasn't necessary or helpful, since a dog needs carbs to get their full nutrition.  In recent developments, it would also be a shame to cause her a heart problem (nutritional DCM) from a grain free diet just as she's kicking cancer's butt.   

I'm sorry Sherlock is having to scramble for treatment now.  Poor timing.  There are a couple CBD threads here on GT for you to search up for recommendations for brands.  Some dogs find it really helpful and some don't seem to feel any difference.   If CBD is legal in your state, and you have a dispensary near you, most staff can be very very helpful in recommending brands, especially for pet products.  He may in fact need an actual pain reliever in addition to the nsaid and gabapentin.  We've found the opiate codeine sulfate to be well tolerated with few side effects, unlike most other other opiates like Tramadol or fentanyl which can be very problematic for greyhounds.

[gracegirl]

2 hours ago, greysmom said:

The way our oncologist explained the "low carb food" issue was to say that if low carb was that helpful in curbing the spread of cancer then it would be universal in human medicine.  Since no studies or science exists to say it helps in the least, she said it wasn't necessary or helpful, since a dog needs carbs to get their full nutrition.  In recent developments, it would also be a shame to cause her a heart problem (nutritional DCM) from a grain free diet just as she's kicking cancer's butt.   

 

The diet we are switching her to isn’t grain free, but low carb. Oncologist also doesn’t want to risk DCM. 
 

There’s and interesting book called The China Study. I probably should take my diet a lot more seriously. A former colleague introduced me to it. She an ocular melanoma survivor who was given 12-18 months to live with a 5% chance of survival. She read this book, changed her diet, incorporated eastern medicine with western, and just celebrated 5 years of remission and she’s NED (no evidence of disease). She just celebrated her 40th, a milestone she truly never thought she’d see. 

[NeylasMom]

On 8/25/2022 at 5:09 PM, gracegirl said:

Has anyone changed to a lower carb food after diagnosis? We are in the process to changing Tessie to Halo Elevate Lamb. Curious what others have done. She’s getting CBD oil and turkey tail mushroom powder as well. 
 

There’s another product called I’m-Yunity that’s supposed to be good, but I’m unsure if I should add anything else. The vet said I could go ahead and add, it was the one she recommended if I’d like. Healthy Paws hasn’t been very helpful in telling me if they cover certain items in the past, either. 

My experience is they don't cover supplements, or anything related to behavior (they don't cover Skye's Reconcile for instance even though it's Rx). You could go deep down the rabbit hole of cancer supplements but I think the mushroom and immunity supplements are a good choice. Curious why the CBD? 

[gracegirl]

Guys. This was a weird week. Got laid off on Tuesday. (I’m fine. Really.) Picky panda isn’t eating her new, very expensive kibble. Maybe she’s tired of lamb. But today was a really big day….two month post-op chest X-rays. CLEAR WITH NO SIGNS OF NODULES. I couldn’t be more thrilled. We did carbo #3 today and are running the Vidium Searchlight now to see if there are any options for targeted oral chemo. 
 

Now if you could spare good thoughts for my liver, I’m going to celebrate. 

Edited September 4, 2022 by gracegirl

[greysmom]

Not applauding getting laid off, but        for everything else!!

[mjmcmurray]

Much love to you and Tessie with the great news of a clear x-ray! And sending good energy for when you begin pursuing a new job, I know how stressful that can be. 

Last week was a big one for Sherlock, first round of Zoledronic acid treatment (he handled it beautifully), plus an abdominal ultrasound and chest x-ray. Sadly the x-ray came back showing a new nodule (his last chest x-rays were done in May before removing his SCC and were clear). I braced myself for this given how quickly his osteo came on and how fast he's declined, but still heartbreaking news. Waiting on the oncologist to review the radiology report to discuss next steps for hospice care this week. 

In slightly better news, I did start him on some CBD oil recommended by his vet and it really does wonders for his stress -- not sure how much it helps the pain yet.  

[gracegirl]

Oh Sherlock. This disease is just so darn relentless. I’m so sorry for the news this week. It’s a rollercoaster of a ride, I hope that you have many many many more good weeks and months with him. 

[gracegirl]

Checking in for an update on Sherlock

[mjmcmurray]

Thanks for checking in! We've been slowly increasing his pain med and CBD dosage as his lameness increases. First round of Zoledronic acid didn't seem to do much, but he had his second round Thursday so hoping for a bit of improvement. It'll be two months since his diagnosis next week and we'll probably do another round of chest x-rays in mid-October to see whether there are more mets. 

It's particularly heartbreaking because other than his clear discomfort walking, he still gets excited to go outside and wants to go to the park, is still eating great, but the limp is severe at this point. 

Edited September 25, 2022 by mjmcmurray

[EllenEveBaz]

Gentle hugs to Sherlock

[greysmom]

{{{hugs}}}

[gracegirl]

Thanks for the update. I’ll be thinking of you guys and hope that the next zolderonic acid treatment goes well. 

[mjmcmurray]

Another Sherlock update -- given the severe progression of his limp, had some more x-rays done today. The good news is that the possible nodule in his lungs that they saw last time was not present this time, so likely an irregularity of some sort. The bad news is, as expected, the lesion on his shoulder has progressed quite a bit. The vet prescribed an additional med I'm not familiar with -- Amantadine, 100mg a day -- to augment his NSAID. 

No clear benefit after the second round of Zoledronic treatment, sadly. It's expensive and difficult to get him to the oncologist so will probably try one more round before stopping, unless it somehow leads to noticeable improvement.

Thank you all for your kind words and support, it really is so appreciated. 

[ramonaghan]

Sending hugs to you and Sherlock. Though I don't have personal experience with it, Amantadine is supposed to be very good, and I hope it keeps him comfortable.  

[Remolacha]

Amantadine is a human drug that is supposed to increase the effectiveness of pain meds. It works really well for some dogs, not at all for others.  It works for Sherlock

[FiveRoooooers]

1 hour ago, Remolacha said:

Amantadine is a human drug that is supposed to increase the effectiveness of pain meds. It works really well for some dogs, not at all for others.  It works for Sherlock

Yes. We had good results adding Amantadine to angel Aiden's cocktail. He was prescribed the same 100mg dose as Sherlock but it made him sleepy. Cutting it back to 50mg provided the pain relief we'd hoped for. I hope it works for Sherlock! 

[okslater]

We had amantadine in Lemming's treatment plan after her ops and she tolerated it well. I think she was a bit sleepy at first but soon got used to it. She was on 300mg per day (and was only a 24 kg dog). 

[okslater]

Actually scrap that, I just looked at my notes and it was gabapentin she had three capsules of, not amantadine. She just had one 100mg capsule of that per day. 

[mjmcmurray]

Thanks all — have done Amantadine for about a week but no clear improvement. Oncologist said we can use/add in codeine soon, which I know will really knock him out.

The poor thing has barely eaten the last couple of days and just wants to sleep. The progression of this disease has really shaken us, but going to try and keep him comfy. 

[EllenEveBaz]

 

[NeylasMom]

On 10/8/2022 at 6:56 PM, mjmcmurray said:

Thanks all — have done Amantadine for about a week but no clear improvement. Oncologist said we can use/add in codeine soon, which I know will really knock him out.

The poor thing has barely eaten the last couple of days and just wants to sleep. The progression of this disease has really shaken us, but going to try and keep him comfy. 

I know how difficult this is having faced this with all 3 of my greyhounds so I say this with the utmost compassion - excessive sleeping is often a way for dogs to avoid pain. Only you know your dog and your comfort level best, but I would consider that between your observations of his comfort level, the sleeping, and the lack of eating, his pain is no longer well managed. 

I'm so sorry you're going through this. Osteo is a horrible disease. 

[mjmcmurray]

I appreciate the wisdom -- his appetite ended up bouncing back a bit. We had a friend come stay with us last weekend and he got very excited and started playing with his toys for the first time in awhile, loved to see, but I feel like we're quickly nearing the day when he has more bad days than good.

[gracegirl]

Chemo #5 is behind us, one more to go. We are scheduled for November 10th. She’s been doing great. Happy, eating, always ready for a walk. 
 

Who here has done PT for a rear leg amp? Healthy Paws will cover it so I want to explore this. We have a great rehab place near us with all sorts of gadgets, including an indoor pool and underwater treadmills. No idea what to expect, but I want to keep her back and remaining limbs in the best shape possible. 

[greysmom]

We didn't do actual physical therapy, but did do weekly canine massage.  I think it really helped keep everything loose and in proper alignment.  You might ask them if they have a specific program to help tripods.

So glad to read she's doing well!!!