Osteo Thread Part 9

[FiveRoooooers]

7 minutes ago, greytpups said:

Sadly, Emmy has been diagnosed with os in her jaw. Our first step is X-rays for her lungs. I don’t know what our second step is yet , but I want to do some research first and D Google hasn’t been too helpful. Isn’t there a fairly new protocol for treatment since we aren’t going to opt for surgery.  the prognosis is alway the same and the time left is always too short.

Emmy is going in for X-rays, then I will request a consult with Dr. Couto. Does anyone have a link to his info? I’m too emotionally drained to search.

thank you

Jan

{{Jan}} So sorry to hear about Emmy.  Dr. Couto's info is here. Please keep us posted and know that we are with you.

@greysmom Chris, I don't Dr. Couto's link on the first page is working, can it be updated? Thanks!

Edited November 23, 2022 by FiveRoooooers
spelling

[ramonaghan]

So sorry to hear about Emmy. Dr. C is very responsive; I hope he can offer you some good options.  

[gracegirl]

We got to celebrate Tessie’s 9th birthday today. Thrilling, since we weren’t sure we’d even get another birthday with her. 💖

 

[FiveRoooooers]

6 hours ago, gracegirl said:

We got to celebrate Tessie’s 9th birthday today. Thrilling, since we weren’t sure we’d even get another birthday with her. 💖

 

 Happy birthday Tessie!! 

[EllenEveBaz]

((((((((((((Emmy and family))))))))))))

[greysmom]

  TESSIE!!!!!   

 

I'm not a supporter and my window to edit the first post passed years ago!!    We'll just have to keep monitoring posts and giving people the right links.

[BatterseaBrindl]

15 hours ago, gracegirl said:

We got to celebrate Tessie’s 9th birthday today. Thrilling, since we weren’t sure we’d even get another birthday with her. 💖

 

[ramonaghan]

Tessie    

[gracegirl]

Christmas came early this year. Tessie had clear chest X-rays today, six months post diagnosis. 🎉

[ramonaghan]

Go, Tessie, go!  

[FiveRoooooers]

Merry Christmas Tessie! 

[greysmom]

        

 

[EllenEveBaz]

 Tessie!

 

[Mercsmom]

On 12/15/2022 at 2:26 PM, gracegirl said:

Christmas came early this year. Tessie had clear chest X-rays today, six months post diagnosis. 🎉

That's wonderful! 

[gracegirl]

Time for another update. Tessie started on rapamycin about two months ago and will be starting on dasatinib this week. These were recommended by FidoCure, not through their targeted program where you provide a sample but rather through their research and literature on the dogs who’s tumors they have collected over the years. Long story short there wasn’t enough of the tumor saved in the correct way to complete their program for targeted chemo. I wanted to share here in case it helps you have conversations with your oncologist. 

[gracegirl]

Strike that. The dasatinib gave her some major GI upset (pudding poo) so I stopped immediately. Might try again in a few weeks, not sure about that though. 

[EllenEveBaz]

Crap.  Literally.  

[Gardenrosakim]

Our greyhound Skip, who is 9 years old, has joined the club. He was diagnosed with osteo after breaking his leg while hopping off the couch (a truly horrible day). He had surgery 16 days ago and has been doing amazingly well with recovering. He had his stitches removed yesterday, and at that point I asked about continuing pain meds. They said that once the stitches are taken out, the amputation is considered healed, and you should only have to give any pain meds if they show signs of needing them. Post surgery we were giving gabapentin 300 mg and tramadol 75 mg, every 8 hours on an alternate schedule. I am wondering what others have experienced with pain two weeks out from surgery? He perks along just fine and then he will have a bad spell: panting, restless, not able to settle and eyes dilated. He had a bad one last night at bedtime. I had given him no pain meds all day, and he seemed fine. Then around nine pm he was clearly uncomfortable. I gave him both tramadol and gabapentin. He couldn't settle down and sleep until after midnight. This morning he was fine until mid-morning when he yelped getting up off his bed, and then lay down shaking. Any thoughts on what might be happening? Could his other legs and body be sore from adjusting? Or could he still be having pain in the amputation site? Thanks, Kim

[ramonaghan]

6 minutes ago, Gardenrosakim said:

Our greyhound Skip, who is 9 years old, has joined the club. He was diagnosed with osteo after breaking his leg while hopping off the couch (a truly horrible day). He had surgery 16 days ago and has been doing amazingly well with recovering. He had his stitches removed yesterday, and at that point I asked about continuing pain meds. They said that once the stitches are taken out, the amputation is considered healed, and you should only have to give any pain meds if they show signs of needing them. Post surgery we were giving gabapentin 300 mg and tramadol 75 mg, every 8 hours on an alternate schedule. I am wondering what others have experienced with pain two weeks out from surgery? He perks along just fine and then he will have a bad spell: panting, restless, not able to settle and eyes dilated. He had a bad one last night at bedtime. I had given him no pain meds all day, and he seemed fine. Then around nine pm he was clearly uncomfortable. I gave him both tramadol and gabapentin. He couldn't settle down and sleep until after midnight. This morning he was fine until mid-morning when he yelped getting up off his bed, and then lay down shaking. Any thoughts on what might be happening? Could his other legs and body be sore from adjusting? Or could he still be having pain in the amputation site? Thanks, Kim

I am so sorry you've joined the club. Does Skip have any kidney or liver issues that would prevent him from taking an NSAID? It's odd to me that he wasn't prescribed one. Tramadol's effectiveness is debated (there's evidence that it just sedates them rather than helping control pain), and while Gabapentin is considered very safe and effective, it always made my tripod girl a bit wobbly. At 9, Skip might very well have some arthritis, and as you mentioned, he's bound to be sore from using his muscles in a different way. I'd ask your vet about getting an NSAID on board. Once you've started him on one that works for him, you can back off to every other day if that keeps him comfortable.

Your boy is so handsome and has a lovely set of ears.  I am glad he's doing well overall! 

Edited February 4, 2023 by ramonaghan

[Gardenrosakim]

Thank you so much! He doesn't have any liver or kidney issues. The emergency vet sent him home with carprofen so we have some, but the surgeon didn't prescribe it for him after surgery. I can check in about adding it back. He was on Amicar for five days after he came home. Here he is having a comfy moment.

[ramonaghan]

10 minutes ago, Gardenrosakim said:

Thank you so much! He doesn't have any liver or kidney issues. The emergency vet sent him home with carprofen so we have some, but the surgeon didn't prescribe it for him after surgery. I can check in about adding it back. He was on Amicar for five days after he came home. Here he is having a comfy moment.

That's excellent news that you got Amicar (which you wouldn't combine with an NSAID, but now an NSAID would be fine). Sounds like the surgeon was on top of greyhoundy (technical term) things. Skip looks great!

ETA: Skip might also be experiencing phantom pains but those should resolve with a little more time. You've made it through the hardest part—those first two weeks are brutal!

Edited February 4, 2023 by ramonaghan
phantom pains

[greysmom]

Most of our post-surgical dogs do well on a combination of a tolerated nsaid, gabapentin, and a true pain medication.  Most vets are still prescribing Tramadol, even though (as Rachel mentioned) it's now currently thought to not be effective for people OR animals.  I recommend an opiate called codiene sulfate.  It's better tolerated with less chance of a bad opiate reaction.

Two things:

One - in some respects, it doesn't matter what your vet "says" is supposed to be happening.  What is important is what your individual dog is actually experiencing.  So if he's still having pain, whether real or phantom, he still needs regular pain medication.  Yes, at this point 2 weeks post-surgery, you should be able to taper down the doses to the minimum required, but he may need more support than that.  

Two - not to put it too finely, but you don't need to be conservative with any meds you do decide to give.  Even though he's had his amp and come out fine, he does still have a terminal disease, and his remaining time with you may be measured in days to a couple years.  You don't need to be worried about long term side effects from any nsaid as long as it doesn't upset his stomach and interrupt his ability to eat.  Gabapentin can have a sedative effect initially and take several days for his body to become used to the dosage.  I recommend using the 100mg (or even 50mg) capsules so you can better tailor his dosage to what is effective for him at the time.  

Third - talk with your oncologist about perhaps adding in an anti anxiety medication if you feel he is having phantom pains rather than post-surgical pain.  These may come and go as you begin chemotherapy.  Dogs generally get through the process much easier than people, but it can be a difficult period for the humans in their life!

Good luck!

[Gardenrosakim]

Thank you. That all makes sense. I restarted the carprofen, and will ask about codeine sulfate. I need to manage my own anxiety as well. I am worried that he might over do things, worried that we might walk too far, worried to let him try two steps down to the yard, or walk up a slope, hop up on the couch--all things that he wants to do, and has done just fine so far (well, the couch, once he got up there, wasn't comfortable for him and he got right back down). I was told post-surgery that tripods do just great after they recover--walk, run, get up on furniture, do agility! That doesn't factor in the cancer part of it in my mind, but I want him to be active and continue to enjoy his life as long as he can. His lungs were clear prior to surgery so there is good reason to think he can be with us for awhile yet. I am sure as we go along, I will be able to relax and stop waiting for the other shoe to drop. He did great on a walk this morning down to where he likes to sniff, and he seemed so happy to be doing that. 

[EllenEveBaz]

Quote

He did great on a walk this morning down to where he likes to sniff, and he seemed so happy to be doing that. 

 

[greysmom]

47 minutes ago, Gardenrosakim said:

Thank you. That all makes sense. I restarted the carprofen, and will ask about codeine sulfate. I need to manage my own anxiety as well. I am worried that he might over do things, worried that we might walk too far, worried to let him try two steps down to the yard, or walk up a slope, hop up on the couch--all things that he wants to do, and has done just fine so far (well, the couch, once he got up there, wasn't comfortable for him and he got right back down). I was told post-surgery that tripods do just great after they recover--walk, run, get up on furniture, do agility! That doesn't factor in the cancer part of it in my mind, but I want him to be active and continue to enjoy his life as long as he can. His lungs were clear prior to surgery so there is good reason to think he can be with us for awhile yet. I am sure as we go along, I will be able to relax and stop waiting for the other shoe to drop. He did great on a walk this morning down to where he likes to sniff, and he seemed so happy to be doing that. 

 

You be shocked, surprised, terrified, joyful, and many other emotions by what your tripod ends up doing!!  Our boy could do our steep stairs up to our bedroom - up AND down!! - and I had my heart in my throat each and every trip!  But he was determined to sleep with us, as he always did, so he figured out how to do it.  He loved digging in the yard, and figured out how to do that with three legs too.  He did zoomies with his brother and sisters, played with the lure pole, chased balls, threw his stuffies around - a tripod will do everything.  No matter how much it scares you!!  Just listen and watch them carefully so he doesn't overdo.

We ended up doing acupuncture and canine massage at home for him, to help our boy stay loose and keep his skeleton in line.  There are a lot of physical stresses on their bodies and keeping them in shape really helps.

Also, PTSD is real for you.  Don't neglect your own mental and physical health.  {{{hugs}}}