Osteo Thread Part 8

[seeh2o]

My boy Carl is gone and we don't know what took him, not sure it was the cancer. It happened at home after I brought him home from the vet and it all happened so fast. He was laying in bed pawing at me to pet him this morning, very happy and sweet, ate a good breakfast with gusto...and now he's gone. I'm lost.

Edited April 1, 2014 by seeh2o

[Batmom]

What a horrible shock for you. I'm so sorry.

 

Godspeed, good boy.

[Guest LazyBlaze]

Oh no, I'm so so sorry. What a terrible shock. Nothing to say but . I'm stunned and so sad for you, it's clear how much you loved your boy. Wishing you strength.

[4My2Greys]

Oh Connie I so feel your anguish. Our sweet boys are gone . Nadir's death is still a shock to me. I was on my way to pick him up when the tech that did his procedure called and said all went fine and he was ready to go home. When she brought him out , to me he was going into severe respiratory failure. I won't even go into what she did at this point. Suffice it to say I will never forgive or forget what she did.

[Guest Greytblackdog]

Oh, Connie. I am so sorry. There are no words. Godspeed, sweet Carl.

[a_daerr]

I am so sorry, Connie. What a horrible shock.

[MP_the4pack]

 

{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{Connie}}}}}}}}}}}}

 

When Pearl had cancer she had a stroke. Dr Couto told me later that cancers tend to throw clots. She had fibro of the spleen not OS, so I dont know if OS also throws clots. I'm so so very sorry that you were robbed of the last few days/weeks with Carl.

[greysmom]

I'm so sorry about Carl! What a shock!

[KF_in_Georgia]

Connie, I'm so sorry. You should have had more time with your boy. Godspeed, Carl.

[Charla]

Oh Connie I'm so sorry that Carl left so quickly.

[krissn333]

Connie I'm so, so sorry

[Charlies_Dad]

Connie, I am so very sorry. We lost Jack suddenly at home and it is devastating.

[45MPHK9]

I'm so sorry, Connie.

[Guest grey_dreams]

Connie, I'm so sorry. There is never enough time

[Victor]

I'm so sorry for your loss, Connie.

[o_rooly]

I can't believe it.
Connie, I am so very sorry. He was such a precious, and so very fortunate, boy.

Carl, you are very, very loved.

[Rickiesmom]

I would like to ask for experiences and thoughts within this thread as I don't have the emotional energy to post in the general forum right now.

 

My Jaynie, who turned 9 last month, has a bone lesion on her left humerus that the orthopedic specialist agrees is probably osteo, but will not confirm without a bone biopsy which I declined to do. Ultrasound-guided FNA was not helpful.

 

We have an oncology consult tomorrow, and an appointment for amputation for Friday if we move forward with that option, the alternative being palliative care - radiation / pamidronate / probably chemo as well. I could push the surgery out if I felt I needed more time, but I don't want to give this thing even one extra day of growth if I can reach a treatment decision I am at peace with in time.

 

On the up-side, the lesion isn't that big. Unfortunately it is extremely painful, and I was told that is usually the case in this area because of extensive nerve involvement.

 

Jaynie's case is complicated by a few factors:

 

- she has compromised kidneys, so a key consideration will be whether the oncologist thinks she is a candidate for chemo

 

- she has some mild arthritis in the other front leg - we are managing that with rehab and exercise very well, which is good as she can't have NSAIDs; we do have the option of doing cartrophen injections and of course she is on appropriate supplements; also our rehab person is very good so we will be able to do ongoing conditioning / rehab; nevertheless, I am concerned about the extra stress on that leg when it is alone

 

- I will know more tomorrow, but what I am hearing is that the wait for palliative radiation at the nearest facility (University of Guelph - we live near Toronto) is something like 6 weeks. Although the surgeon said if she was his dog he'd amputate, I would hate to make that choice simply because the timeline for the alternative would seriously compromise her.

 

The next-nearest is in Detroit (no idea about lead time) which is doable but complicated by the fact that Jaynie isn't vaccinated (auto-immune reaction risk) so there is a chance, even with an exemption letter from the vet, that she could be refused entry and once that happens, every subsequent attempt will probably have the same result.

 

*** I would be very interested in your thoughts about keeping a front amp dog's other front leg strong and healthy, as well as effects on neck and back. I would hate for her to go through the surgery, recovery and chemo, only to find the other leg can't handle it.

 

*** If anyone happens to have a kidney dog, I would be interested in what treatment adjustments (drug choices or administration approach) were made to accommodate that. I know someone whose hound received pamidronate over a longer infusion period so it could be diluted more, for example.

 

I trust the orthopedic surgeon and oncologist who are on her case, they are both excellent. But it would be so helpful to hear from other greyhound owners who have been down the paths we are looking at, both to help my decision making and to identify considerations / questions I should follow-up on since "I don't know what I don't know".

 

Thank you so much.

 

(I have started reading the suggested references at the top of this thread, but am not through them all yet.)

[Guest fastcasper]

I am shocked to hear about Carl! I was there a month ago. Casper spent the day at the oncologist and his exam went well. He came home that afternoon, had a good dinner and a nice evening. The next morning he was tired, didn't want to eat much, I think he did for me. I thought he was tired from spending over 8 hours at the vet the day before. I went out of the house for 1.5 hours, came home and he was worse with his tiredness. I took him to my local vet , she examine him. His gums were white. They x-rayed him and found the problem. I had to say good-bye there. Less than 18 hours, he went from ok to not. I'm so sorry for your loss.

[greysmom]

Re: Jaynie

 

The oncologist will have more advice, but it seems that most (if not all) of the alternative palliative options are particularly hard on the kidneys/liver. If her kidneys are already compromised, I'm not sure what can be done to make treatments easier.

 

Remember, an amp is ONLY to remove the immediate source of pain. Even a small lesion can be extremely painful. I've forgotten from your other thread if she's had a lung xrays yet or not. This might give you some more information going forward, too. If the cancer has already metastisized, an amp may or may not be useful, if you can control her pain in other ways ofr the time being.

 

If you do the amp, it *will* be a struggle for her, particularly at first. Front leg amps seem to have a harder time adjusting than rear legs. They carry most of their weight in their front end, and those legs do a lot of work. Most of our dogs have been on a combo of a pain reducer (usually tramadol), gabapentin (for nerve pain), and an nsaid (for anti-inflammatory help). We also did canine massage with Dude, which did really help keep his muscles loose and his body in alignment. Some have done accupuncture, pool rehab, and other modalities. I have been wondering if laser treatment - such as is done with arthritic dogs - would be helpful as well.

[Rickiesmom]

Greysmom, thank you for your thoughts. My other thread asked about diagnostics only, not about Jaynie or her condition specifically, which is why nothing rings a bell.

 

Jaynie did have chest x-rays done yesterday, and they are clear. She is currently on Tramadol, Gabapentin and a Fentanyl patch, which she is tolerating, thank goodness. The goal is to keep her comfortable until we determine a viable course of action, if there is one. It will likely come down to her kidneys as you have suggested.

 

I really am concerned about her ability to manage with one front leg, though assuming she can tolerate chemo, it might be worth giving her a chance. I wouldn't put her through it unless chemo is part of the plan. Your comments about Dude are encouraging as we do have a wonderful rehab clinic to help us post-amp.

 

The alternative is to do radiation and pamidronate again, without chemo if necessary, because although the lesion is still quite small it is painful, and we have nowhere to go with pain meds, so radiation is crucial. Hopefully the wait time for this is much shorter than I have been led to believe.

 

I hope other people with front leg amp experience / kidney conditions and treatment will chime in.

[TwiggysMom]

I am so incredibly sorry to hear that Carl is gone. There is no easy way to lose one of our hounds, but while you were still coping with the diagnosis is beyond unfair.

 

Rickiesmom, I am so sorry to hear about Jaynie's diagnosis. It also sounds like you have a difficult set of circumstances to work with, between her other medical conditions and the availability of doctors/appointments.

 

It does sound like you need more input from the doctors about what she would be able to handle.

 

The closest experience I can offer is that of a front-leg amp. Twiggy was just shy of 7 y/o when she had her left-front amputated in 8/2011. While I did consider all options, I was fortunate to have everything point to amputation/chemo as the clear choice for her (young, had no other health issues and was very active). Now, she is 9.5 and is starting to deal with spinal issues that we are struggling to control.

 

It is possible that Twiggy's issues are the result of her being too active. I had no idea that her cancer would stay away this long, and my priority has been to let her do what she wants to do now, because I don't know if there will be a tomorrow, so I have mostly let her do whatever she wants to (which is pretty much equivalent to a middle-aged border collie). While she has never seemed to have neck/shoulder/remaining front-leg issues, it seems (counter-intuitively) to be her mid- to lower-back and hind legs that have had the issues.

 

I think it is most important to make decisions based on all the circumstances particular to your own particular situation. If you're like me, you'd probably like for someone to be able to knowlegably and confidently guide you to a decision about Jaynie's treatment, but all I can really say is to continue to consider your options as you have been, and then do what feels most right for all of you (and never second-guess yourself).

 

[krissn333]

Well said, Wendy

 

Adding my support for Jaynie

[a_daerr]

So sorry to hear about Jaynie.

It's promising that her lungs look clear. When it's a slow spread, you can get lots of good months/years with amp and chemo.

 

It is possible that Twiggy's issues are the result of her being too active. I had no idea that her cancer would stay away this long, and my priority has been to let her do what she wants to do now, because I don't know if there will be a tomorrow, so I have mostly let her do whatever she wants to (which is pretty much equivalent to a middle-aged border collie). While she has never seemed to have neck/shoulder/remaining front-leg issues, it seems (counter-intuitively) to be her mid- to lower-back and hind legs that have had the issues.

 

I talked to the legendary Maggie Mae's dad at Sandy Paws. They went through something very similar. She made it 5+ years post-amp. At some point, her hips started to shift downward. He recommended joint supplements and hydrotherapy.

[MP_the4pack]

Rickiesmom, I had a front end amp done on a 12 yr old. It was a rough 2 weeks post op, which seems to be the magic number, but once she was past that, she had a terrific 6 months. OS then hit a back leg.

 

So even though we did do the chemo it didn't help in the end. We just had a great painfree extra 6 months.

[Guest fastcasper]

My guy was a front leg amp. and had arthritis in one of his toes on the other front leg. He had a tough time with adjusting for the first 4 weeks, mainly because he was in zero pain going into the procedure and not lame. So coming out with 3 legs was a "bit" of an adjustment for him. Obviously kidneys are a factor when chemo is involved , they will monitor the kidney functions via weekly blood test to see how things are going. She may have some delayed chemo session if the white blood count is too low. Also, they can administer a lower dose of chemo, like a "baby" dose and it will still be within the dosage range. That is a gentler approach but the pup still gets a dose of chemo to fight the cancer. I know you think you are under a time restriction, but, unfortunately even if the lesson is tiny, there is mirco cancer cells already in the body. My boy had clear chest rads and his lymph nodes near the amp site were clear too. After 6 rounds of Carbo, he had lung mets. He lived another 3.5 months with the mets and he lived a normal life full of happiness. In total, we got almost 11 months more together and I don't regret it.

 

You may want to ask about metronomic chemo treatments to see if that may be an option. It's an oral treatment you give you gal at home every other day and it is a "gentler" chemo.

I'm sorry to hear you have to deal with this, be strong!

 

Kim