Steak's Seizures

[vsrenard]

Oh hell, I am so sorry he seized again. I know it's natural to feel you aren't doing enough or doing the right thing but please don't beat yourself up. Seizures are VERY hard to get under control and you are doing your best by your dog. Hugs to you and your whole pack.

[LBass]

Sending healing thoughts and prayers for you and Steak and your poor frightened kids. What a ghastly time you are all having. I hope the vets will come up with something to get this cluster episode under control sooner.

 

 

Lindsy, unfortunately I don't know the half life of oral valium as compared to the rectal dose other than to say its significantly longer. Perhaps the timing of Piper's dose is a bit of a guide. He gets it every six hours along with the extra Pb. Since the usual dose time for Pb is 12 hours and we're halving it to get and keep his levels extra high, I'm thinking maybe valium is about the same?

 

--Lucy

[Guest Javasmom]

Checking in for the morning update. Still thinking of you and Steak. Hugs to you, Steakers, and the girls.

[greypuppyluv]

My thoughts are still with you guys. I hope the neuro will be able to keep him there for the next day or two to make sure he still isn't seizing....it's so important to keep that drip going and in his system to keep the seizures away so his body can recover from them. More coming your way.

[Guest K9_Lady]

Thinking of you all today. Wish that I could help in some way but you have everyones support here and we all know how much you and the girls love Steak. Hang in there Beth and a hug for your boy. I hope that he is doing better.

[hidoey]

Beth and Steak, sending strength....

[TheFullHouse]

Beth, you have done nothing wrong, nothing! You have followed the usual protocol for most seizure dogs, unfortunately in Steaks case they haven't worked. You've now sought the help of a neurologist, whom I think can really help Steak. You've been there through it all and I commend you for that. A lot of people would have given up on him by now but you've stayed by his side. God bless you for loving him so much to want to do the very best for him. That picture brought me to tears. The poor guy is exhausted and so are you. When you need a boost, come here and see how many people are pulling for yourself and for Steak. You are both surrounded by love. More prayers for Steak and the family. I know this is hard on you all.

[Guest Tes623]

Thinking of you and Steak--hopefully the new doctor can help.

[kamsmom]

We are at the neuro and they are wanting to do so much. Problem is I can't afford everything. They just quoted me $3000. That would be an MRI and CT and tick panel. The er vet was $800 last night. Im sitting here in tears as I don't want to compromise his care based on money. I'm thinking we get the tick panel and go from there? They want to keep him on the zonisamide and add in keppra. Does that sound right?

[rascalsmom]

No idea, Beth, but . It is so difficult when the costs are so high...we aren't made of money, yet we want to do right by them.

 

You will make the right decision, whatever that is. I'm sorry you're going through this.

[Hubcitypam]

Beth when Rex and I were at the Neuro on Trinity Mills the nero told me he needed an MRI right then for something like $2,000. I was lucky, they JUST had a cancellation and I could do the $2,00 right then or Rex might languish weeks until another MRI opening appeared. I felt like I was in a used car lot, not a doctors office.

 

I talked to my vet and decided against the MRI. He said it was one of two things wrong with him and both were really bad. We passed. I'd just do the tick panel. Don't fall into their hard sell.

[TheFullHouse]

Glad to see they're wanting to add the Keppra. Steak may need more than one drug to get some kind of control Beth. I didn't realize they had weaned him from the other drugs when starting the zonisamide. Honestly, at the age he started having seizures and the fact that you did an MRI and it showed nothing, I'm of the mind set that it's more an issue of getting enough of the right medications into him to achieve some sort of control. If they had been adding drugs from the beginning and not weaning him off the other ones, then I might think about another MRI, but I'd be more willing to go the drug route and then it that doesn't work go the MRI route, but that's just a personal opinion on my part.

[Remolacha]

What a nightmare! I am so sorry you and Steak (and your girls) are going through all this

 

For what it's worth, if it were me I wouldn't do another MRI right now either. Hopefully, they can work with you on getting the combination & dosage of his meds adjusted. It doesn't sound like, at this point, knowing what is causing the seizures would change the treatment to try and get them under control.

 

:candle

[Guest LindsaySF]

Sorry to hear he had another seizure.

 

I wouldn't bother with the MRI or other diagnostics, not at this point. Priority right now is getting him stabilized and past this cluster. I would have him on a valium IV drip for a minimum of 24-48 hours, until he's over 24 hours seizure-free.

 

Yes, stay on the Zonisamide and add in something else. Keppra is fine. Did Steak not do well with Phenobarbital, or that's just not the neuro's drug of choice? Pheno seems to control Sophie's seizures the best out of all the meds, but it had behavioral side effects, which is why we added the Zoni rather than keep increasing the Pheno. If cost is a concern, just ask for Pheno. It is significantly less expensive than Keppra and still provides great seizure control. Combined with the Zoni it might work even better.

 

Fingers crossed.

 

ETA: You've done one MRI already and it was normal? I definitely wouldn't bother with a second one then. If Steak has been having seizures all this time, and he's in the right age range for epilepsy, then it is very very unlikely that you're dealing with something like a brain tumor or an infection, it's probably epilepsy. He's just not on the right combo of meds to control the seizures, and right now he's in a cluster. If this had come on suddenly, then I would suggest an MRI, spinal tap, tick panel, etc, to try to find a cause. But he has several months of seizure history here, this is not a new thing.

 

 

 

~Lindsay~

Edited August 26, 2011 by LindsaySF

[greypuppyluv]

Glad to see they're wanting to add the Keppra. Steak may need more than one drug to get some kind of control Beth. I didn't realize they had weaned him from the other drugs when starting the zonisamide. Honestly, at the age he started having seizures and the fact that you did an MRI and it showed nothing, I'm of the mind set that it's more an issue of getting enough of the right medications into him to achieve some sort of control. If they had been adding drugs from the beginning and not weaning him off the other ones, then I might think about another MRI, but I'd be more willing to go the drug route and then it that doesn't work go the MRI route, but that's just a personal opinion on my part.

 

I agree with Judy. I wouldn't do the MRI. Phaelin started seizing at 6 years old also and he's now 9. We think it's just idiopathic.

 

I wonder why they aren't wanting to add pheno and KBr first, instead of Keppra? I guess I'm old school, but those just seem to have better proven clinical results. Didn't you already run a tick panel? If it were me, at this point, I would want to just start him on more drugs and see if that started helping before running a bunch more tests.....but that's cheapo me.

[kamsmom]

The pheno had bad side effects. He had major behavioral changes. The keppra isn't even half as expensive as the zoni.

 

I hate being here. The room next door is having a hard time and I can hear them crying too

 

I just told them no to the MRI and said I wanted to just go with meds. Now I feel like crud.

[Guest Javasmom]

Can you make payments or apply for Carecredit? In the horsey world, our vet visits can get VERY VERY expensive rather quickly. Our vets are sympathetic to the costs and usually allow payments, however, I know small vets are sometimes not quite as flexible. Look into carecredit if you can. It could be helpful. Hugs. Believe me, I understand where you are right now.

[RaineysMom]

I agree that the meds should be worked on first. they may have to even add pheno to the zoni and Keppra to get some control. I still can't believe your other doctor removed the other meds at all!

 

just FYI, if you have a Costo nearby, use them to get the Keppra -- by FAR the cheapest we found for Rainey's.

 

this is just breaking my heart...I feel so bad for him and for you!

 

just saw your post, Rainey had bad issues with the pheno, too...but at the end, we had no choice but to put her back on. But, we will never know if the pheno caused the changes or if whatever was going wrong with her brain was just brought out by the pheno

 

eta: it must be a very low dose of Keppra, that was 4 times more $$ than the zoni's for us?

Edited August 26, 2011 by RaineysMom

[Guest Javasmom]

OH and, btw, my parent's dog was on Pheno, Gabapentin and Valium.

[TheFullHouse]

The pheno had bad side effects. He had major behavioral changes. The keppra isn't even half as expensive as the zoni.

 

I hate being here. The room next door is having a hard time and I can hear them crying too

 

I just told them no to the MRI and said I wanted to just go with meds. Now I feel like crud.

 

 

Beth, you could spend the $3000 and find it doesn't change a thing. If they had kept him on the meds and continued to add more, then it might be worth running all those tests but they removed the meds in exchange for another. Steak obviously can't be controlled on just one medication. He's going to require more than one to gain some semblance of control so don't feel bad. Honestly, you're trying to do what is best for him without putting yourself in the poor house.

[LuvAPuppy]

Does the new neuro have all the test results from the other vet(s)? If not, do no new tests until s/he does. Get the original MRI films if you can, if the new neuro says they see something super suspicious that a new MRI is going to show progression of and influence treatment/cure, then do a new MRI. But a new doc with no test results is going to have to recommend repeating everything cuz they've got nothing to work with but an exhausted, exasperated Mom and a patient who can't talk.

 

AFAIK from people medicine, those two meds are ok together. Keppra I know is a relatively new, good seizure med.

[Guest LindsaySF]

The pheno had bad side effects. He had major behavioral changes. The keppra isn't even half as expensive as the zoni.

 

I hate being here. The room next door is having a hard time and I can hear them crying too

 

I just told them no to the MRI and said I wanted to just go with meds. Now I feel like crud.

If he doesn't respond well to Pheno, I can see why they are going with Keppra instead. If the Keppra and Zoni still don't control the seizures, you might have to add Pheno (or KBr), then you can wean off them later. But hopefully the Keppra + Zoni combo will work.

 

Don't feel like crud! Don't let them pressure you into expensive testing. Sometimes, with all this technology nowadays, I think vets get caught up in expensive testing and diagnostics. Sometimes an "old school" approach (changing meds combos) is all you really need.

 

Sophie's big time cluster last week is a good example. Some people were asking why I didn't bring her to the e-vet, or why I didn't run more tests. Some neuros would have insisted on more MRI's, etc. What she needed was enough medication to overcome the seizures trying to get through, and we have plenty of meds right here at home. I drugged the crap out of her. This week she is totally fine, you would never know how bad she was last week. Thankfully Sophie's neuro is more "old school", he said she didn't need to come in, adding extra meds would work, and it did. Our regular vet probably would have insisted she be admitted and run all sorts of tests (that's why I didn't call them ).

 

I would only worry about a brain tumor or other cause if the seizures kept getting worse despite increased medication. But the meds levels Steak is on are relatively low in the grand scheme of things, and he was only on one drug at a time really, which makes me think he just needs a different meds combo.

 

 

 

 

~Lindsay~

[NeylasMom]

Does the new neuro have all the test results from the other vet(s)? If not, do no new tests until s/he does. Get the original MRI films if you can, if the new neuro says they see something super suspicious that a new MRI is going to show progression of and influence treatment/cure, then do a new MRI. But a new doc with no test results is going to have to recommend repeating everything cuz they've got nothing to work with but an exhausted, exasperated Mom and a patient who can't talk.

 

AFAIK from people medicine, those two meds are ok together. Keppra I know is a relatively new, good seizure med.

 

Beth, you are an awesome dog mom, don't doubt yourself.

[vsrenard]

Ditto to what Jen says. In a perfect world, we could run all the tests we want whenever we want them. I'm sympathetic to a doctor who wants to know what the status of her patient's brain is now, but given Steak's history and previous testing, as well as the prohibitive cost, I would not get the MRI/CT/tick panel either.

 

Don't feel like crud about this. You are doing the best you can and when you are out of this very emotional moment, you can always re-assess.

[carronstar]

You are an amazing dog mom. Please, please don't think you are doing anything at all wrong. Clearly Steak isn't presenting in the way that most seizure dogs do, that is not wrong. It means that your vet and you will have to find new ways to work with this. I am heartsick that Steak is going through this. You know how much love and how many prayers and good thoughts are out here for both of you, and for your girls. This is just so hard on all of you. Gentle kisses to beautiful Steak.