Osteo Thread Part 9

[FiveRoooooers]

So much good advice from those who have been through amps, which I have not, having chosen palliative care. But I can add that if Amelia is already not using that limb, she isn’t going to miss it if you go the amp route. She’s already testing out being a tripod. 

[2greyhoundMINI]

8 hours ago, ramonaghan said:

What tests are they doing—ruling out osteomyelitis and getting a radiology consult? When you get more info, you might also consider a consult with Dr. Couto. He's wonderful.

When Sweep broke her leg there was no sign of osteo; they repaired the break because the bone was still so sound. When the break didn't heal as expected after a few months, they took new scans and saw the osteo. So a break is probably already a real risk, and you want to be very careful with her. That's not meant to be alarmist, it's just the awful reality of this disease.

And I'm not steering you one way or another, but I do want to offer that even if we lost Willa tomorrow on her sixth-month ampuversary, I'd still have no regrets about doing it. She had no side effects from chemo and none from the vaccine we did. After the first two weeks, she was back to herself and she's had an incredible few months—running on the beach and in the snow for the first time, playing with her brother, and being loved and snuggled every single day. It super sucks that Amelia and Willa are both so young, but the age serves them well in recovery.

I'm also aware that we are fortunate in that we have had insurance for both Sweep and Willa, so we didn't have to worry about that aspect of the treatment. We said yes to everything available.

I need to speak with the doctors in person... the main news was given to me second hand by my husband who took her for the visit. 
So I am not entirely sure what they are waiting to get back. 

I tend to agree... one of our last greys had chemo and he faired well on it, not really any side effects. 
And thinking of it that way, that would be worth it...
How long did it take for Willa to heal from the surgery?

We do have insurance for our pups... even if we didn't, money for the surgery and treatments is not a factor in a decision. 

Edited February 1 by 2greyhoundMINI

[ramonaghan]

18 minutes ago, 2greyhoundMINI said:

How long did it take for Willow to heal from the surgery?

She had surgery August 1, came home August 2, and was walking mostly unassisted for potty breaks on August 3. There was a huge improvement at 1 week. At 2 weeks, when she got the stitches out and started chemo, she was basically herself again. Most people say 2 weeks is the magic number. Sweep's recovery was harder than Willa's because she wouldn't eat for a few days afterward and she was a senior, but the 2 week rule still held.

And not that it's necessarily relevant, but Willa's tumor was also in the right front leg by her ankle. 

Edited January 31 by ramonaghan
leg info

[2greyhoundMINI]

3 hours ago, ramonaghan said:

She had surgery August 1, came home August 2, and was walking mostly unassisted for potty breaks on August 3. There was a huge improvement at 1 week. At 2 weeks, when she got the stitches out and started chemo, she was basically herself again. Most people say 2 weeks is the magic number. Sweep's recovery was harder than Willa's because she wouldn't eat for a few days afterward and she was a senior, but the 2 week rule still held.

And not that it's necessarily relevant, but Willa's tumor was also in the right front leg by her ankle. 

That’s not bad…. Geez I was thinking months! 
But I forget how fast dogs recover and adapt. 

[ramonaghan]

6 minutes ago, 2greyhoundMINI said:

That’s not bad…. Geez I was thinking months! 
But I forget how fast dogs recover and adapt. 

One month post-amp

[2greyhoundMINI]

3 minutes ago, ramonaghan said:

One month post-amp

That’s so encouraging!

[Beachbum1]

Taylor, at age 6 and a big boy at 97 pounds, was diagnosed with Osteo in his right front "wrist" by his regular vet.

I recommend you connect with an animal oncology group, like I did immediately, and they can explain what to think about in the way of treatment/care.

Osteo is very painful.  Amputation removes the pain, and the removes risk of an incredibly painful fracture that "could" happen at any time.

Taylor had his right front leg removed, and it was made easier by the fact that he hadn't been using that leg for a while. 

4 weeks after surgery, he was hopping in and out of the back of my Hyundai Tuscon, along with Facebook.  They loved and demanded 2-3 rides and walks a day.  He ran faster than Facebook (still) in the back yard.

No side effects from his Carboplatin chemo.

He was a happy, hopping 3 legged Greyhound for almost 2 years, until something else sent him to the Bridge.

 

   

[2greyhoundMINI]

Thank you for these positive stories.

So another question is how are the pups with stairs?
Unfortunately we have a split level house so there are stairs everywhere.

Amelia was doing pretty well the last few days cruising around on 3 legs… sadly she slipped at the bottom of the stairs this even and she banged her leg.
Ugh the cries that came from her were heart-breaking. We gave her some pain meds and a sedative so she is quiet now. 

Edited February 1 by 2greyhoundMINI

[ramonaghan]

Our indoor stairs are very steep (old house) and Willa never did them even with four legs. Sweep had already stopped using them by choice before she became a tripod. Neither has had any trouble on outdoor stairs; in fact, there are several steps into the oncology department at our specialty vet, which always blows my mind. I know lots of tripods do just fine with them. If you're on Facebook, definitely join the Greyhound Osteosarcoma Support Group and, if you decide on the amp, Hounds That Hop.

[Beachbum1]

Taylor would do 3-4 stairs to get on and off the boardwalk to go for walks at the beach.  

[2greyhoundMINI]

I’m thinking the lower sets of stairs are fine.

The main set of stairs is the hard part… we may need to block them off and my husband will have to carry her up and down to be safe. 

[MP_the4pack]

I have 5 stairs to get in and out of the house. Diamond,  who by the way was 12 when I did her amp, jumped off the deck onto the patio just days after her amp. She crash landed, but thankfully was ok. They think they can do more than they can so be careful,  especially the first few weeks. 

The only thing that changed for my 2 amp girls was the length of walk. They couldn't go as far. Oh, and you walking faster is actually easier for them.

[2greyhoundMINI]

It amazes me how many of you have gone through this.

Last night was rough... when she crashed at the bottom of the stairs and was crying in pain my hearty just broke and I felt completely helpless. 
It took her a long time to calm down (she's a drama queen on top of all this). 
The ankle area is now VERY swollen, so we are hoping she didn't break it. 

In the middle of the night she must have bumped her leg because she let out a yelp... I don't think I fell back asleep after that. 

She seems in better spirits this morning. The husband carried her down the stairs, and she is gated in the family room instead of being allowed to roam. 

Sigh....

[ramonaghan]

Too many of us have been through it, that's for sure. If you decide on amputation, be prepared to feel that same sense of helplessness and heartache and guilt for a few days...but it does get better. The first time you see them run as a tripod is the best feeling in the world.

Talk to your vet about her current pain meds (I hope you'll be talking with them soon anyway!). There's no reason to be conservative with them—get ahead of the pain as much as possible. Osteo has been described by human patients as feeling like your bone is exploding.

[2greyhoundMINI]

7 minutes ago, ramonaghan said:

Too many of us have been through it, that's for sure. If you decide on amputation, be prepared to feel that same sense of helplessness and heartache and guilt for a few days...but it does get better. The first time you see them run as a tripod is the best feeling in the world.

Talk to your vet about her current pain meds (I hope you'll be talking with them soon anyway!). There's no reason to be conservative with them—get ahead of the pain as much as possible. Osteo has been described by human patients as feeling like your bone is exploding.

After the incident last night we gave her extra on the pain meds.
She got her regular dose this morning and her sedative as well. 
Sadly she is so playful she loves throwing her stuffies around and pouncing on them.

I will ask about upping the medication/changing it. 

[2greyhoundMINI]

Well, radiology confirmed osteo. I am not surprised. 
Luckily scans show right now it has not spread. 

We decided to go the amp route. She is scheduled for surgery on Monday. I just think this is going to be the best option. She is young and relatively healthy.

Luckily the oncologist we already know... he treated one of our last greys. He also was just recognized with some awards last year. 
He has a nice bed-side manner, but will tell it to you straight. 

At this point we are just in the wait pattern... keeping her calm and pain-free as much as we can.

Of course I will keep everyone updated on how things go. 
I appreciate everyone's feedback the last few days. It was encouraging and helpful, and comforting.

Edited February 1 by 2greyhoundMINI

[MP_the4pack]

3 hours ago, 2greyhoundMINI said:

After the incident last night we gave her extra on the pain meds.
She got her regular dose this morning and her sedative as well. 
Sadly she is so playful she loves throwing her stuffies around and pouncing on them.

I will ask about upping the medication/changing it. 

Definitely don’t let her bounce around.  I dogsat a big fawn boy and noticed that dreaded lump on his wrist before the owner did. She took him to the vets right away and was waiting for his upcoming oncologist appointment.  She came home from work one day and he was happy and bouncing around with his dinosaur toy when the leg broke. It was the worst thing she ever experienced. He was gone that night. She didn't have a chance to think about amp. This was only 1 week after I told her.

And yes, for 2 weeks you'll doubt yourself.  Just hang on! She'll be running and pouncing around in no time.

[ramonaghan]

I'm sorry it's official, but it sounds like Amelia will be in great hands. We'll all be backnforfing for her on Monday! Make sure they give her Amicar or tranexamic acid to control bleeding. I got it filled at my local pharmacy because there was a shortage at the clinic. She will still bruise quite a bit, but having one of those meds on board is crucial for greyhounds.

When you have some mental bandwidth to consider next steps, I recommend you take a look at the clinical trial being done for a cancer vaccine. It's significantly slowed or even reversed metastasis in some cases. We got the first vaccine in Cincinnati the same week Willa started chemo, and the booster three weeks later; all the follow-up can be done locally. There are only ~10 clinics offering it, so most people have to do road trips; I think the closest option for you would be Pittsburgh. The vaccine itself is free, but you have to pay for the oncology exam at the participating clinic. I figured, Can't hurt, might help, why not do it. Here are the details and the web page. There's also a Facebook group.

[2greyhoundMINI]

For some weird reason, I almost felt at peace when I heard.
I think because I knew for sure and there was a plan started. 

The waiting and sort of not knowing seemed to really have me out of sorts. 

I passed those links on to my husband to look at as well. I don't know if we will apply for the vaccine, but it's definitely something to look into!

[ramonaghan]

I totally relate to that—the limbo phase is terrible. Now you're in action mode.  

[Remolacha]

I don’t have any specific help to add, both of my greys with osteo were not good candidates for amp. It sounds like your girl is and I am glad you are getting her in soon. There is no sound in the world so awful as a greyhound screaming from a leg broken because of osteo, I would not want you to go through that. 

[FiveRoooooers]

Backnforfing on Monday for Amelia 

[2greyhoundMINI]

3 hours ago, Remolacha said:

I don’t have any specific help to add, both of my greys with osteo were not good candidates for amp. It sounds like your girl is and I am glad you are getting her in soon. There is no sound in the world so awful as a greyhound screaming from a leg broken because of osteo, I would not want you to go through that. 

That’s what it sounded like the other night when she slipped on the stairs. 

[greysmom]

Just something to consider and talk with your surgeon about - we left Dude in the hospital an extra day, so the experienced tech staff could do the hard work of getting him up and pottied and walking right after the surgery.  By the time he came home - 3 days post amp - he was already steady on his three legs and ready to take on the environment at home, which included stairs.  He was also pretty much off the surgery pain meds and starting his new normal med routine (I needed a spreadsheet and alarms to remember everything).

But Dude was **very** comfortable at the vet, and everyone adored him and doted on him while he was there.  So we had no concerns about him being too nervous and not eating.  When he went in for his chemo infusions they set him up on a blanket in the middle of their office instead of in a kennel in the clinic, and they took turns sitting with him.  And when he was going to make his journey across the Bridge 10 months later, every one of them stopped by the room and said goodbye, bawling as much as we were.

The first two weeks are the worst two weeks ever.  But you'll all get through it.  {{{HUGS}}}

[MP_the4pack]

12 hours ago, greysmom said:

Just something to consider and talk with your surgeon about - we left Dude in the hospital an extra day, so the experienced tech staff could do the hard work of getting him up and pottied and walking right after the surgery.  By the time he came home - 3 days post amp - he was already steady on his three legs and ready to take on the environment at home, which included stairs.  He was also pretty much off the surgery pain meds and starting his new normal med routine (I needed a spreadsheet and alarms to remember everything).

But Dude was **very** comfortable at the vet, and everyone adored him and doted on him while he was there.  So we had no concerns about him being too nervous and not eating.  When he went in for his chemo infusions they set him up on a blanket in the middle of their office instead of in a kennel in the clinic, and they took turns sitting with him.  And when he was going to make his journey across the Bridge 10 months later, every one of them stopped by the room and said goodbye, bawling as much as we were.

The first two weeks are the worst two weeks ever.  But you'll all get through it.  {{{HUGS}}}

This.

And one thing I wasn't prepared for was the look on their face when they first wake up without a leg. I'm glad both my girls stayed for 2-3 nights.