Professional greyhound behavior help?

[wilson]

Hi.  We are about at the end of our rope.  We adopted our young but greyhound just shy of two years ago.  She's 4 years old now.  We were told at the time that she was shy but just needed to get comfortable and come out of her shell.  We've done everything that we know of and can think of to help her feel comfortable and safe and build confidence, but we've had two years of constant issues and still cannot see that certain behaviors are getting any better, and we have no idea what else we can do.

Our greyhound is such a sweet girl and we can really tell she wants to be a good girl.  But she is absolutely terrified to death of everything, and I mean everything.  She spends absolutely all her time on her bed in our bedroom, and I'm not exaggerating.  Except for when we take her outside to potty, she will run up to that spot.  She won't willingly leave that spot for any reason.  She just lays motionless for 20+ hours a day.  No food motivation of any kind - I could stand outside the bedroom with a raw steak in my hand and she wouldn't come out on her own.  When we've tried various methods of keeping her out of the room to get her experience spending time in other parts of the house, she becomes a nervous wreck and pees and liquid-anxiety-poos all over, and our home is unfortunately not equipped to handle much of that.

So, one issue we have is that after two years, we are taking care of this sweet lovely girl, but it doesn't really feel like we have a family dog.  No one ever sees her outside of our bedroom.  Our kids are pretty indifferent to her entirely by now because they never see her or interact with her.

The other primary issue is that she is terrified of being put on a leash and being led outside.  We are talking physical trembling, teeth chattering (and not greyhound happy/excited chattering - that's different).  Once we are actually outside, she does ok.  Definitely on constant "high alert," and any sort of unfamiliar noise really spooks her, but she does ok outside.  Lots of improvement there versus when she first joined our family.  (I spent the first couple of months having to physically carry her outside - now once the leash is on and she is away from her "spot," she will walk down the stairs and out the door on her own).  But she would never in a million years leave the room on her own or indicate in any way she wants/needs to go outside.

It seems like the act of being approached and having the leash clipped on is the most problematic.  She knows what times of day are times for going outside and she can hear us coming up the stairs and she tries to hide (jamming her head under the bed, etc).  We take as much care as possible to be gentle and soothing when entering the room and approaching her, but her fear of this has not really improved at all after all this time.

But about six months ago, she began a new additional behavior that is really pushing us to the edge of our ability to keep her in the home.  Now, when approached with a leash to go outside, she just pees right there on the floor while she is laying there and trembling in fear.  We don't scold or yell, but we cannot figure out how to get this to stop.  We try offering yummy treats or food and she is just catatonic to that stuff - no reaction or interest.  We have gone through a dozen different dog beds now because they've been soiled so badly and our carpet is just destroyed and our bedroom smells just horrible.  Our oldest daughter had a friend over last week and she was super embarrassed because her friend commented our house smelled like pee.

We've tried working with our local vet about this, and that hasn't been too fruitful.  She was put on Prozac - has been on that now for about 3 months.  We have not been able to discern any change in her behavior or level of fear/anxiety from that.

We love her, we want to give her a safe and comfortable home, but it is really negatively affecting our life - having to clean up pee multiple times a day every day, and knowing that she is not feeling completely safe or comfortable.  It feels like this is way beyond a "shy" dog just needing some time to get comfortable and come out of her shell.  It feels like she has special needs that we are not meeting and don't know how to meet.

So I am wondering if anyone is aware of any professional services that might be available to help consult and guide us on what we could possibly do to improve our pup's quality of life (and ours, selfishly)?  We are just completely out of ideas for anything we can think of, and this situation can't continue forever.

Thanks, and sorry about the long post.

Edited March 1, 2022 by wilson

[Remolacha]

I am so sorry you are having to deal with this. It sounds like you have a severe spook, not just a “shy” dog. I have never dealt with a spook personally, but I know there are people here on GT who have, and I hope they can give you some help.

[LBass]

I've worked with Behave Atlanta and can't say enough positive things about the experience.  There is a certified animal behaviorist and a trainer who work with you and your animal.  For those not in Atlanta (I'm not) they work using Zoom meetings, which I found effective and easy.

For this next comment, I'll ask you not to laugh...perhaps consider an animal communicator as well.  I know this sounds flaky but I've experienced significant help for 2 of my animals using the help of a communicator. Just in case you're interested.

[greysmom]

Not super common, but we  hear about spooks quite frequently here on GT.  First thing to do is a search here for "spook" threads so you can do some reading.  If you want to google "Idiopathic fear syndrome" that's another thing to research. 

Imagine living in a world where everything terrifies you every minute of every day.  This is what she is dealing with.

Second thing is for you to realize that this isn't a behavioral issue.  Spooks are a genetic and a physical problem that occurs in a certain percentage of greyhounds, sometimes following breeding lines, but they can pop up in any litter.  Breeders can see it developing only a few weeks after they are born and no solution has ever been found to stop it.

The best analogy I have found is that this is like having an autistic child.  Everything is scary.  Everything is new each time it's encountered.  They often don't respond to names or familiar people.  They often don't respond to familiar cues.  They often prefer to self isolate, do repetitive behaviors, refuse to eat. 

Third, you've hung in there for a very long time and you should be commended.  But this isn't what you signed up for, and no one would fault you for wanting/needing to return her to your adoption group.  There are people who specialize in dealing with spooks and who have a lot of experience doing so.  Hopefully your group has one of those people available to help this little girl.  Call your group and explain just what you have here, and ask them what their procedure is for returning a dog.  It's not going to be any better or worse for her to be returned, at this point, since she's devolved so far down the rabbit hole.

If you want to try and stick it out and help her, ask your vet and your adoption group for a referral to a certified animal behaviorist who is experienced working with fear and anxiety issues.  Make sure you interview this person and that they only use positive reinforcement techniques.  Certified Applied Animal Behaviorists 

Also, you're on the right track beginning with anti anxiety medications.  But you've only stuck your little toe in as far as the toenail.  There are multiple classes of drugs, with multiple medications and dosages that can be tried.  Trying one med and giving up because it doesn't work is doing a disservice to treating her.  This is an issue that is multifaceted and involves both the physical and chemical properties involved in an individual dog's brain.  What works for one dog will be ineffective for another.  A CAB can address both the training aspects and medical aspects of helping her.  A neurologist also may be able to help monitor and suggest anti anxiety medications.

As far as her fear peeing goes, I would invest in some diapers.  It will at least help contain the issue.  You can use appropriately sized human diapers (cut a small hole for the tail), or they make doggy diapers for incontinence.  

But...

None of this is a quick fix.  I can take years to discover the right key in the right lock to help an individual dog.  Only you can decide what's best for you and your family.

Good luck, and keep us informed.

[palmettobug]

I recommend Zero Odor for cleaning up pet accidents, they have sprays and laundry additives. For deeper stains in carpet, you may have to pull up the carpet and replace the padding.

[Legendaryfrank]

I think your dog is incredibly lucky to have caring and thoughtful caregivers like you. I hope you make some progress and live in harmony!

[zimsmom]

Can you talk to your vet about an SSRI like prozac.  My new girl is the same but not to that degree.  Hates to go outside/leave my home; lays on the bed all day but no accidents in the house.  Oops just caught the tail end of your post.  Can the dose be adjusted??

Edited March 1, 2022 by zimsmom

[1Moregrey]

Just a house keeping idea you could put down some of the bed pads used for people (chucks, underpads) on her bed and around the area where she lays.  They do not contain the scent like the puppy training pads and will absorb the mess.  They come in disposable and reusable (just have to wash them the old style baby diapers).  Can be found on line, in grocery store sold in the area where the depends are. (I had a hard time locating they were there no one knew what I wanted) 

I have had good luck with oderzyme for clean up.  It destroys/digest the bacteria that causes the oder.

 

 

[HeyRunDog]

I agree with greysmom. You are to be commended with sticking with her for so long. A lot of other people would have returned her long before now and if that's what you decide to do then there is no shame in that and no-one here will condemn you. There are plenty of greyhounds out there who are confident and love humans and deserve a loving family such as yours.

I haven't had a spook but my Grace is on the nervous side and it took two and a half years before I could sit at her head end when she was lieing on the sofa to make a fuss of her without her getting off. It took several months to get her not to be afraid of traffic and she still is frightened of screaming children and the sound of a football being kicked or bounced.

[Houndtime]

On 3/1/2022 at 12:21 PM, LBass said:

I've worked with Behave Atlanta and can't say enough positive things about the experience.  There is a certified animal behaviorist and a trainer who work with you and your animal.  For those not in Atlanta (I'm not) they work using Zoom meetings, which I found effective and easy.

For this next comment, I'll ask you not to laugh...perhaps consider an animal communicator as well.  I know this sounds flaky but I've experienced significant help for 2 of my animals using the help of a communicator. Just in case you're interested.

I also know it is sort of strange option to consider, but we did use a communicator with two of our greys.  The results were successful.  I don't understand it, or how it works, but sometimes it does.  Just use a communicator that has a good reputation or lots of positves.

[Apollo_the_Grey]

On 3/1/2022 at 1:33 PM, Legendaryfrank said:

I think your dog is incredibly lucky to have caring and thoughtful caregivers like you. I hope you make some progress and live in harmony!

Completely agree with this.

I've never dealt with anything like this, nor did I even know such doggos existed before coming to this forum.  

[cleptogrey]

What a nightmare for you and your family. She needs to be with a secure lead dog or in a small pack. 

Talk to your adoption group and have them find the correct home for her.

You have done nothing wrong. Assessments of a dog's temperment can be difficult. But now that it is known she needs to be with other dogs who have a scheduled regime- like she had at the track. 

Don't feel guilt or like a failure.

Also check out the Rosa Project. It's either in Nevada or Utah. The person who runs it is a vet. She does great work.

Edited March 21, 2022 by cleptogrey

[NeylasMom]

Did you find help? I'm only seeing this now, but what you really need is a veterinary behaviorist. If you let me know where you live, I can get you some recs, though if you're vet is willing to work with the VB on prescribing meds you might be better off with a remote consult so she doesn't have to leave the house. There are some really good VBs out there who do remote consults these days. My mailbox here is full so feel free to reach out to me at jen@playandtraindogs.com. 

[jenners]

Bumping to ask if anything is any better

Miss Jennie