Updated Diagnosis For Tilly...osteosarcoma

[Guest ShelbysMom]

I'm so sorry. As others have said, there are way too many of us who have been exactly where you are now.

 

There are many individual factors to consider, and only you can make the best decision for all involved.......

Such absolutely sound advice given by Greysmom. Every situation and grey is different. I feel for your situation, but know that you will make the right decision for your family and Tily.

 

Hugs to you all, and prayers for you to find the strength to follow whichever path you choose.

[MP_the4pack]

Whatever decision you make is the right one. Because you're doing it out of love.

 

But I do want to tell you I did a front leg amp on a 12 yr old. I drove from NJ to OH just to see Dr. Couto since he sees so many greyhounds. I wanted his opinion if a 12 yr old could handle it. His answer....12 is just a number. She spent Thursday being examined, and the decision was, yes, she could handle it.

 

She was done on Friday. The staff was prepared to have her longer than most due to her age, but she surprised everyone and was discharged Monday and back to NJ on tues. The first couple weeks are very hard as they adjust and have the pain meds (which does make them anxious). But it's almost like magic at the 2 week mark they improve exponentially. She had a terrific 6 months before OS hit a hind leg. She was chasing deer and scaring the crap out of her mom as she acted like she never lost a leg.

 

I wish you the best of luck whatever your decision.

[Sundrop]

Many thanks to all of you - it was truly a shock to hear the diagnosis yesterday since her X-rays showed nothing a month ago. We are discussing our options...

 

I was already consulting with Dr. Couto regarding her stroke (vet still thinks her initial issues were a stroke) and whether she is even a good candidate for amp/chemo. DH is very against that route, but I am struggling as I feel I am just giving up on her. We just lost our boy in April to cancer, and we tried everything available to us.

 

She did have a chest X-ray yesterday which looked clean. Of course, the vet said it isn't overly reliable, as it would catch those small cancer cells.

 

I have also asked for a referral to an oncologist to consult, and get a quote on chemo. Also requested a quote for amp surgery. We do not have pet insurance - so everything is out of pocket and, of course, the neuro and MRI, with all the vet visits, rehab, drugs, etc. - it hasn't come cheap. We are financially okay to do this, but we don't want to just throw money at a situation if this isn't right for her. I am desperately trying not to be selfish...

 

Also, I work from home, so I am here with her all the time. DH has a relatively flexible work arrangement and can be home, as needed.

 

We feel like we were too selfish when our boy, Deacon, was fighting for his life last year. I would like her with me forever, but I am really trying to think of her first. Hopefully we can get some advice from Dr Couto regarding her prognosis, and also from the oncologist. I know we need to move quickly if we are planning on amp/chemo.

 

Just so very sad that she is going through this and hope the pain meds are enough. We have her on 50mg of Tramadol every 8hrs and 200mg of Gabapentin once a day. She is so very stoic...but still very interested in food. Not eating her normal food, but loves chicken breast and oatmeal with broth - and apples for a snack.

Edited January 27, 2016 by Sundrop

[Beachbum1]

Taylor's free Carboplatin chemo came from Ohio State University.

 

I just spoke with my contact there, and I was told they are no longer providing the chemo, BUT chemo is still offered through here:

 

http://greyhoundhealthinitiative.org/

[a_daerr]

DH is very against that route, but I am struggling as I feel I am just giving up on her.

 

I know many people are against amp/chemo because they think of it as just "buying time." That's not necessarily the case... many of us on GT went that route with our cancer dogs. Although it's definitely a difficult and expensive road (and it's not the right choice for everyone), I would 1000% do it again. My boy, Henry, got another 1 year, 10 months, and 2 days that I would not have traded for the world. He ran, played, enjoyed dinner every night, went on vacations. He did not suffer in pain and sickness. Dr. Couto can advise you further, but for 8-years-old and having clear chest x-rays, she could very well be a great candidate for amp.

 

Whatever decision you make, know that are NOT giving up on her. You are choosing what is best based on kindness, compassion, and unconditional love.

[carronstar]

I am so very sorry to hear this. Cancer stinks. Know that you will make the right choice for Tilly and for your family, then don't second guess yourself.

[sarabz]

 

I know many people are against amp/chemo because they think of it as just "buying time." That's not necessarily the case... many of us on GT went that route with our cancer dogs. Although it's definitely a difficult and expensive road (and it's not the right choice for everyone), I would 1000% do it again. My boy, Henry, got another 1 year, 10 months, and 2 days that I would not have traded for the world. He ran, played, enjoyed dinner every night, went on vacations. He did not suffer in pain and sickness. Dr. Couto can advise you further, but for 8-years-old and having clear chest x-rays, she could very well be a great candidate for amp.

 

Whatever decision you make, know that are NOT giving up on her. You are choosing what is best based on kindness, compassion, and unconditional love.

 

 

Wonderful, wonderful point of view.

[greyhoundlov]

Ultimately, we need to decide whose quality of life is more important - theirs or ours. This is such a sucky decision to have to make.

[MP_the4pack]

I also want to point out, Twiggy is a (I believe) 4 year post amp survivor. If not 4 yrs, very long none-the-less. She's on this board.

 

Dr. Couto can give you excellent advice.

Edited January 27, 2016 by MP_the4pack

[TwiggysMom]

TwiggysMom here. I am so very sorry to hear about Tilly's diagnosis. It is truly heart-wrenching every time.

 

I don't sign on often, but have been following your story. Given that she hasn't been using her leg and had a stroke, I was thinking you might want to consider amputation. My girl Twiggy had osteo first, (complete with amp, 6 rounds of carboplatin, and metronomic chemo as long as she could take it), and just before the turn of 2016 had a massive stroke. She has some concerning deficits still, but anyone seeing her would likely think nothing was wrong.

 

However, the osteo diagnosis does complicate things. It is so true that every single case of osteo needs its own decision. Whatever you do, don't let your vet or your neighbor, or whoever sway you from what you feel is right for all of you. You need to consider your living situation (which sounds very amenable to anything, so that is good!), your dog (how is she at multiple vet visits, is she picky about food, does she take meds well...), also you do need to take finances into consideration. Depending on where you live & how long you are blessed with your girl kicking the crap out of this cancer, this can be an extraordinary amount.

 

I can tell you that I had no idea how much this would end up costing >$50,000 so far, but of course that is for a return on investment of nearly 4.5 years of awesome life!!!. However, I am one of the unbelievably few who have the massive good fortune to have her girl experience such long & good survival times. Twiggy's 4.5 year ampuversarry is Feb 16. I can tell you that Twiggy's life post amp has been far better than her pre-cancer retired life.

 

Twiggy had a perfect combination of circumstances though. She was only 6, highly energetic, very independent and stubborn, wants to live all of life's parties and lets nothing stand in her way. She is a hungry hungry hippo & never turns down anything remotely food-related, takes her meds like treats (because they are wrapped in a peanut butter filled piece of tortilla), and loves the vet's office (I have to drag her past it because she always wants to go in - it is next door to us). In addition, her tumor was in a very favorable location and was discovered (and amp'd) very early on. I brought her to Ohio State and Dr. Couto reviewed her case and examined her, and told me he felt she had a very favorable prognosis given aggressive treatment. He could not have been more right!

 

I say all the above, because people often want to know how "I" got such good success with Twiggy. It had nothing to do with me, but I went with my gut and it turned out to be right.

 

Consider all your circumstances, go with your gut, and it will be right for your girl.

 

I wish you, your husband and Tilly all the best.

[galgrey]

I'm so very sorry you are facing this.

[Sundrop]

Hi all, spoke to our vet again and asked if she thought Tilly was an amp/chemo candidate (Dr Couto hasn't been much help to us, unfortunately) - she paused for a moment and just said she felt this was very aggressive, more aggressive/fast than she usually sees and because we are seeing anamolies in her hip on that side, she was concerned it had already progressed to her pelvis. No X-ray to verify, but that was her main concern. She also said that complete lameness and the edema indicates we are dealing with late stages.

 

I struggle with putting her through surgery, chemo and rehab with such a high risk that it will show up again soon thereafter, and then she has to go through the illness all over again. We thought about getting her back in for chest and pelvis X-rays, but she cannot stand for very long and she was wiped out and in so much pain after our last vet visit, I am hesitant to do this without knowing "for sure" what path to take.

 

I have a call later today with the oncologist, but I don't think we will contact Dr Couto again. He has responded quickly, but he basically told us he would have to examine her before giving an opinion on her candidacy for amp/chemo, which is obviously not something we cannot do.

Edited January 28, 2016 by Sundrop

[greysmom]

Just from reading your posts, it does sound like Tilly's cancer is particularly aggressive. It is highly likely the cancer has already spread throughout her body. Amp/chemo is NOT a curative option for dogs, it only removes the most obvious focal point of the the pain, to allows the dog to be more comfortable. If there are metastitized cancer tumors already growing in other bones, then putting her through surgery would be counter-productive - she would still be in pain AND recovering from a difficult surgery.

 

Once the option of surgery is eliminated, your course becomes one of evaluating Tilly's quality of life. Is she eating? Is she able to go potty on her own or with minimal help? How is her attitude? Can she do all the things she enjoys? Does she participate in family activities? Can you control her pain and other symptoms adequately with medication?

 

One yardstick that is often said about evaluating your dog's quality of life: Think about the three things she enjoys most in her life. Can she still do them all and does she still enjoy them?

 

It's hard and heart-breaking, no matter what your answers to these questions are. Once your dog is diagnosed with cancer, it's all just a process of saying goodbye - sometimes you get longer to do that, and sometimes it comes up way too fast.

 

(((HUGS}}}

[a_daerr]

Wishing the outlook was better. My advice is to move forward with the oncologist consult before making any major decisions. Not trying to sway you in any particular direction, however, it does seem to be a common theme that many general practice vets have a reluctant attitude about trying amp/chemo. An experienced veterinary oncologist can glean more information from a FNA (fine needle aspirate) and more detailed x-rays.

[tbhounds]

If the tumor is in her pelvis I personally would not proceed with further treatment.

[Beachbum1]

Wishing the outlook was better. My advice is to move forward with the oncologist consult before making any major decisions. Not trying to sway you in any particular direction, however, it does seem to be a common theme that many general practice vets have a reluctant attitude about trying amp/chemo. An experienced veterinary oncologist can glean more information from a FNA (fine needle aspirate) and more detailed x-rays.

Which is what we did with Taylor's oncologist, within 1 week of his regular vet doing the initial x-rays and advising that it was Osteo.

Edited January 28, 2016 by Beachbum1

[Guest harleyandme]

I'm very sorry to hear about Tilly. I lost my Harley about a month ago to osteo.

 

I had written a large reply but it's just such a personal decision that I don't want to sway you in any way.

 

I hope you and Tilly are able to enjoy your time together and you can come up with a solution that is best for your family.

[EllenEveBaz]

[Sundrop]

The neurologist reviewed Tilly's MRI from Jan 11 and it, too, showed nothing abnormal. So, from Jan 11 to Jan 23 (less than 2 weeks) a large mass appeared. I am still not clear if she also had a stroke on Dec 20 when the limping started, but I guess it doesn't matter at this point. After a lot of soul searching, discussions with our vets, the neurologist and the oncologist - no one is very hopeful. They have actually all been really good about not trying to sway our decision - but we have opted for palliative care.

 

We felt that even if we got the best case scenario of 6-12 months, that we just couldn't put her through the pain and stress of the surgery, the rehab and then the chemo - all with so many vet visits and drugs...and then the anxiety of just waiting for it to happen again and watch her suffer all over for just a few extra months. I have second-guessed, cried and gotten angry about 1,000x, but I am really trying to think of her and her quality of life.

 

DH is a lot more resolute about the decision and feels 100% that we are doing the right thing. I still feel like I am giving up on her, even though no one who has examined her case has given us much hope at all.

 

On a side note, the edema in her leg is very bad now. She went on a 5-day course of Rimadyl to see if that would help, but halfway thru there is no change. She was up about every 30 minutes last night to go outside and pee (some diarrhea, too) - by about the 10th time she was so tired I was having to hold her up to pee. She is a little better today - still eating, but she seems uncomfortable - a lot of shifting, sitting up and panting. I really can't be objective about any of it, she keeps gazing at me and it just breaks my heart that I have to let her go.

[Roo]

Just seeing this now - I'm so sorry

[Remolacha]

For what it is worth, it sounds to me like you are making the right decision. We never want to let them go, but doing what is best for her quality of life is not giving up on her, it is putting her first

[Batmom]

What Remolacha said. Hugs.

[Beachbum1]

We have the choice to do what is best for our pets.

She knows she is loved.

[Walliered]

Huck was diagnosed on Thursday and I asked vet to come to the house on Sunday. No matter what the vet gave him for pain, he cried 24/7. He was only 6, but I was not going to put him through an amp for just a few more months. Money was not an issue as I have Trupanion Insurance, so only thinking about my dog.

[Sundrop]

Honestly, you all have no idea how much it means to read your supportive words. I know many of you have gone the amp/chemo route and some of you didn't - so to get so much advice, and to hear the success stories, and the heart-breaking stories, really truly helps us not feel so alone in this. This is our 3rd grey to have cancer, and our youngest to leave us. She is really struggling, but she is so stoic and sweet that it's hard to tell how much pain she is in. I hope I can make the call when the times comes, as this little girl deserves to leave this life with dignity and grace. I am just so thankful we have Hospice vets here who can come to our house so she won't have to endure another car ride and vet visit.

 

Again, my heart-felt thanks.

 

Huck was diagnosed on Thursday and I asked vet to come to the house on Sunday. No matter what the vet gave him for pain, he cried 24/7. He was only 6, but I was not going to put him through an amp for just a few more months. Money was not an issue as I have Trupanion Insurance, so only thinking about my dog.

I also wanted to say, I am so very sorry for your loss. Edited February 1, 2016 by Sundrop