Jack - Need Advice/opinions

[Charlies_Dad]

So last night we were at the E-vet until midnight with Jack. The reasons were a sudden onset of laboured breathing.

 

History - Jack started to 'hack' early last week every once in a while. It's not unlike him to hack after eating something dry or after drinking water (which he does not do regularly. Then on Wednesday overnight, he had 4 occurrences where he hack twice in a row. First thing Thursday morning we made an appointment with the vet for 1pm.

 

First vet visit - Focus was on the throat thinking that perhaps it was irritated and/or something possibly stuck there (he had a raw turkey bone on days before). Out regular vet was able to reproduce the hacking by palpitating his throat area. Briefly discussed his large heart and whether it could be playing a role in any way, vet did not believe so and confirmed that he has a heart murmur 1-2/5.

 

Diagnosis - Unknown. Two options, meds to handle irritated throat or endoscope his throat to have a look around but this would involve sedation. We opted for the first (Vanectyl P 3 pills twice daily for 3 days and then 3 pills once a day for 3 days, Clamamox 1 pill a day).

 

All was fine and no hacking occurred for two days. Jack did hack twice over the three days and then last night at approximately 8pm, he hacked twice. We did not think too much of it other than we may have to endoscope or x-ray his throat area. Immediately after theis hacking episode, he started to have laboured breathing to the extent his whole body was moving while he breathed (up & down as he was laying down). We checked him out (no pale gums), no painful areas, etc. but he continued to breath this way so I thought perhaps the heat in the house was bothering him as he gets hot quickly. I let him out in the backyard and he did his business fine. He came back in and continued to have difficulty breathing. So after about 40 minutes of this, we called our emergency vet (different animal hospital) and drove the hour to there.

 

Second vet visit - explained the first vet visit and what had transpired. They noticed his laboured breathing and his pulse was 108/minute, temperature fine, no pale gums, some sensitivity in abdomen area. Opted for x-rays of heart and abdomen.

 

Diagnosis - Unknown. X-rays showed nothing, no foreign bodies, no tumours, etc. The e-vet did emphasize the size of his heart was large and took up the whole chest cavity. He is not familiar with Greyhounds so could not confirm whether it was larger than normal for a Grey. We discussed the possibility that his heart may be putting pressure on his trachea and that may the cause of the hacking. We requested a referral to the Cardiologist and have an appointment Tuesday at 1030am.

 

So after all that I guess I am looking for whether anyone has experienced similar symptoms? Is it possible for the heart to 'grow/expand' that much since his last heart x-ray in the Spring where it was considered large but then every Greyhound's heart is. We have not compared the previous heart x-ray with the one performed last night but will tomorrow as it was a different vet. So we are worried, very worried because this came on so suddenly. We know there are good heart meds on the market but our last pup who had congenital heart failure did not show these symptoms and lived for several years after happily on meds but this seems very different.

 

Tks.

Edited November 28, 2011 by Charlies_Dad

[msjpk]

I have noticed that my Lou hacks occasionally- I pay attention to it but it is not continuous?? He also can have some breathing with his mouth open when he is laying down, I usually have a blanket it on him so I take the blanket off, it goes away as quickly as it comes.

No help hear, but I do know what you are talking about.

Sometimes I feel the hacking is from eating grass??

Good luck and keep up posted, hope all is fine.

[Guest verthib]

Mine both hack as well. A large heart and a heart murmer are normal for greys I think. Good luck. I'll keep him in my thoughts.

[Guest larock]

Are his lungs clear (this was likely the first thing they checked)? The hacking doesn't seem as worrisome as the panting or labored breathing. He could be in pain, hence the labored breathing. Has kennel cough been ruled out?

 

I do hope they figure this our soon. Having a sick pup is very hard especially when you can't point to something tangible as the problem.

 

Get better soon, Jack.

 

Mine both hack as well. A large heart and a heart murmer are normal for greys I think. Good luck. I'll keep him in my thoughts.

 

I was going to say this too...

Edited November 28, 2011 by larock

[Batmom]

A larger heart than other breeds is normal, but a grossly enlarged heart is not. Hope that is not what you are dealing with. Best luck, and please keep us posted!

[Charlies_Dad]

Are his lungs clear (this was likely the first thing they checked)? The hacking doesn't seem as worrisome as the panting or labored breathing. He could be in pain, hence the labored breathing. Has kennel cough been ruled out?

 

 

Yes, lungs are clear and kennel cough is very unlikely as he only stays at home with his 4 other furry siblings, no dog parks, etc. and we are on 89 acres with the closest dog being about 1/2 mile away.

[greysmom]

Coughing and labored breathing can also be a sign of pleural effusion - fluid build-up around the heart and lungs - which might not show up on xrays. I would ask for a referral to a cardiologist.

[dante2zoe]

Dante has a heart murmur. His is a 4+/6, which has increased over the last year. Anyway, I took him to the cardiologist a couple weeks ago. He explained that in some hounds, even if the murmur isn't real loud, blood can be escaping through the valve the entire time, causing the heart to work harder to compensate. This will cause heart enlargement. I am not saying this is what Jack has, I am just relaying information. Anyway, he told me that this condition can be controlled rather well by medication. He did ask if Dante was hacking, which can be a sign of congestive heart failure.

 

Sorry this is rather disjointed, I am supposed to be in a meeting in a minute!

 

Good luck. Jack is in my thoughts. Please keep us posted!

[Guest larock]

Did they give him prednisone or a corticosteroid of some sort? Panting, can sometimes be a side affect of this drug.

[mychip1]

Hi Kyle...

 

Our EZ has a significant heart murmer and is on meds for it. He sometimes hacks. As far as labored breathing, he pants heavily when he gets home from the ride from New York to Rhode Island - and we have noticed it a bit more pronounced the past several months. We have not had the type of dramatic onset that you have witnessed.

 

My best wishes and thoughts are with you. One caution - and I'm sure your greyhound vet will touch base with you about it....the sedation is far more dangerous for a dog with a murmer.....though the cardiologist would be exactly the person you would want there if he does need any type of anesthesia.

 

Good thoughts....

[Charlies_Dad]

Did they give him prednisone or a corticosteroid of some sort? Panting, can sometimes be a side affect of this drug.

 

Neither as we know pred can sometime cause panting.

 

Thanks everyone for your advice/opinions. We are sure now that he has an enlarged heart and I believe larger than your average Grey. Unfortunately I cannot post the x-rays from last night as the CD it came needs an app to run and it only runs on Windows. From what I recall seeing last night, I don't like the 'overhead or top-down' x-ray of his heart, it fills the chest cavity completely. Hopefully the Cardio will be able to help us control things with meds but we won't know until after tomorrow's appointment.

[Remolacha]

I am sorry to hear about Jack, but many heart conditions can be handled well with medication. My first grey lived for 3+ years on heart meds, and I lost her at 12 1/2 from unrelated causes. I hope Jack's heart condition is treatable

[greytpups]

Here's hoping it's something easily treatable.

[MP_the4pack]

Pearl was diagnosed with heart disease at age 5. Mitral value did not close. It was diagnosed by a cardiologist.

We went there because our regular vet heard a heart murmur. So not all murmurs are normal.

 

Her original prognosis was 2-3 yrs, but she sailed past that. When she was 12, her heart started to enlarge and it concerned her cardiologist. She was already on a plethura of pills for her heart and hypertension. (you may also want to get that checked at your cardiologist appt). Dr Couto states that greys get hypertension with no knows cause.

 

Pearl was put on Vetmedin and her heart actually improved.

 

Cancer took her 5 months later.

 

So the good news is that meds can help a lot. I hope Jack gets some good news.

[Guest mcsheltie]

Has Laryngeal Paralysis been ruled out?

[Charlies_Dad]

Has Laryngeal Paralysis been ruled out?

 

No not yet. Can you remind me how it's diagnosed?

[tbhounds]

Two thoughts---if your boy has a grossly enlarged heart it could be putting pressure on his trachea inducing a cough. Second--have you de-wormed him recently?--long shot but, it could be parasite related. As far as the LP--he would need to be lightly sedated so the vet can actually obtain a visual.

Truely think your next step would to seek a cardio vet for a full cardio work up (esp before sedation of any kind).

[KF_in_Georgia]

Kyle, if you can, pay attention to Jack's position (and timing) when he starts hacking: standing, lying down, on his chest, on his side, etc. Does it ever start while he's sleeping? Is it during or after eating/drinking? (Raised feeder?) And where's his head? Raised, lowered, off to one side or the other?

 

The lower lobe of Sam's left lung is in entirely the wrong position. It sits about two inches lower (on x-rays, "further back" on his body) than the lobe on the right lung (extends past his last rib, while the right lung ends at the ribs), and the lobe of the left lung is sort of smushed back toward his spine in comparison to the right lobe. None of this appears to have anything to do with Sam's cancer, but the vet was looking at it and wondering if the mis-positioning might make Sam cough when he turns his head one way or the other. My vet was really surprised to see this on Sam; he's used to seeing it with pugs and other breeds that don't have the whopping big chest cavity that greyhounds have. It's not operable, and apparently not a big deal, but an out-of-position lung could be pressing on Jack's heart--and vice versa.

 

I second the motion for a cardiologist before sedation since Jack's having breathing issues. My vet is reluctant to put Sam under to get better films since Sam's got lung problems.

[Charlies_Dad]

The cardio is already booked for tomorrow morning at 10:30 and we have seen him previously and is very good. Thanks for the thoughts/ideas as I hope tomorrow sheds light on what is going on.

[Yamaha_gurl]

Hope Jack Jack and family get some good news tomorrow

[GreyKarma]

Sending prayers and good thoughts for Jack. I am hoping for just a throat irritation....

If it is heart related.... dogs do wonderful on meds.

 

Carol

[DesiRayMom]

Good thoughts for Jack's apptmt tomorrow. Update ASAP....we'll be waiting.

[Kestrel]

Sending good wishes to Jack, and to all of you.

[Guest azlorenz]

Sending good vibes for Jack's cardio appt tomorrow. And Kyle, you know your Greytalk family will be with you in spirit supporting you just like you've done for us a million times.

Edited November 29, 2011 by azlorenz

[LuvAPuppy]

Didn't read everything, probably this has been already covered , for yorbut yes, his heart will enlarge as it works harder to compensate for the murmur. Mousie's heart is enlarged enough that it is elevating her trachea causing her to periodically cough, especially after drinking. The heart, being a muscle will thicken or essentially "bulk up" with the work out, just like any other muscle will.