Bandit

[krissn333]

The vet sedated Sutra with Domitor for his first xrays. After that, I asked them to at least try to do the xrays without sedation, but gave permission for them to sedate him again if they really needed to. He cooperated without sedation, so they didn't do it any more

[Guest ChasesMum]

odd, my doc has never sedated for xrays...

 

is the lump loose or attached?

 

If he is under a GA then for sure I would see if they can do the "budget clean". Really you need to talk to the tech that is doing it to tell her just to do literally a 10 min clean job....maybe even if he is just sedated, even just a scraping might be enough to give him some better comfort? "All the better to chew a turkey neck m'dear!" but I wouldnt go too hard core if its OS. just me...

 

lots of warm non-OS thoughts comin your way!

[Remolacha]

A tough call!

[tbhounds]

Honestly, there is no reason to sedate for chest rads--I have snapped more rads than I can remember and it's a rare event that I can remember asking for some chemical help. The limbs are a different story--a lateral view is a breeze but, an A/P is a different story--not impossible but, difficult. If Bandit was my pup I would insist on the chest rads first--if they come back clean then, the lat view of the limb. If it's "it" it will show up on the lateral view--no need to sedate for the A/P--you already have your answer. If the lateral doesn't give the Dr an answer and he really wants to pursue the A/P a good tech can get it with a little patience.

If sedation is a must--you can ask if your vet will give a little IV Torbutrol. The Dexdomitor/antesedan is an option but, I'm not a big fan--their heartrate can really drop to a scary low. It's common practice at some clinics--I'm just not comfortable using it on an oldie hound. If you choose the latter insist on an IV.

[NeylasMom]

Drives me nuts when vets automatically sedate for x-rays but nothing you can do about that. I'd suggest maybe a small dose of Valium.

 

Whether and what to do about the teeth depends. If he does have osteo and it's well advanced, I'd do only as much as needed to keep him comfortable, which might be nothing, might be some antibiotics, etc. If he doesn't have osteo, harder question. You don't want him to die of an infection caused by nasty teeth or to be in pain from them, but it is hard on a dog to go under, too.

 

Sending lots of hugs.

 

 

Honestly, there is no reason to sedate for chest rads--I have snapped more rads than I can remember and it's a rare event that I can remember asking for some chemical help. The limbs are a different story--a lateral view is a breeze but, an A/P is a different story--not impossible but, difficult. If Bandit was my pup I would insist on the chest rads first--if they come back clean then, the lat view of the limb. If it's "it" it will show up on the lateral view--no need to sedate for the A/P--you already have your answer. If the lateral doesn't give the Dr an answer and he really wants to pursue the A/P a good tech can get it with a little patience.

If sedation is a must--you can ask if your vet will give a little IV Torbutrol. The Dexdomitor/antesedan is an option but, I'm not a big fan--their heartrate can really drop to a scary low. It's common practice at some clinics--I'm just not comfortable using it on an oldie hound. If you choose the latter insist on an IV.

What Batmom and Tbhounds said.

 

During Neyla's 7 months of osteo, we never sedated her for x-rays. We always just got the lateral view, which was enough to tell that she had osteo and keep tabs on the progression. Lung x-rays after her initial dx were also done without sedation, no problems there. We never did lungs again, no reason to.

 

How much time you'll have if it is osteo can really vary and depends on how early you've caught it. Most people seem to get just a few months, or sometimes less, but then there are dogs who have longer like Neyla, Sutra who got nearly 6 months, Arathorn who got 5 1/2. I know of one GT dog who had 10 good months so really it's a crapshoot.

 

I hope that's not what it is, I really do.

 

On a totally separate note, if the teeth aren't really bad and you haven't yet, trying some raw meaty bones is a good idea imo, especially if you know he tolerates them. Keep us posted and try not to worry too much.

[Cully]

The vet I worked for would only sedate for xray if they where doing hip xrays. Maybe they could just do a scalling on the teeth. Sending lots of good thoughts and prayer for tomorrow.

[Guest roselle]

My boy Bandit came to us one year ago and is now 13. We've struggled with his teeth and he really needs to get a dental. I am so afraid of this because our last senior to get a dental at 12 had a stroke as soon as we got home and he died an hour later.

Bandit has had a lump come up on his right front leg just above the wrist, suddenly, 3 weeks ago. He is not fussing with it or limping from it. I think I know what "it" is.

When I had Little Dude the iggy at the vet's recently I told my vet about this. He said bring him in and let me listen to his chest. We go in tomorrow and may get pre-anesthesia bloodwork done too. A dental and xrays can not be done tomorrow, consult only.

Bandit does not like car rides and will be anxious at the vet office. At least at the hour of his appt there shouldn't be too many other folks/dogs there.

But Bandit also has an old broken hock injury on his right rear leg. He walks like he's about to keel over yet he still loves to run (and it looks painless).

My dilemna:

13 year old dog undergoing anesthesia for his leg lump and probable chest xray.

If the chest is clear, go ahead with the dental....or....if the leg has osteo proceed with the dental or not?

How many months of a good life would he have if it is osteo, and wouldn't he be happier/healthier with a cleaned mouth/extractions?

Bandit is not a candidate for amputation because of the old broken hock and weak hind end. We will opt for pain control only. This boy had a difficult life before coming here and deserves a comfortable send-off.

On top of it is that my husband has been sick for 6 months with a bad blood disorder and now a blood clot. He is still able to go to work and is one tough retired Marine but it adds to our stress in worrying about Bandit.

 

Friday at 2:30 Bandit will see Dr Martin. Some of you may remember that name as I posted his hunky picture when he took care of Gracie.

Think good thoughts for my boy.

 

Sending you prayers for Bandit and a cyber hug. Roselle and Gracy

[Shirley44]

Sending lots of hugs and many prayers.

[greyhndz]

Ducky, tbhounds has great advice and the experience to back it up.

 

Oldsters are all very different -- I've had 12-13 year olds who acted like seniors, and others who had excellent quality-of-life, and appeared far younger than their true age. I've approached medical care differently for each one. I've had dentals done on super-seniors if I thought they had dental disease or pain that affected their quality of life, and they could tolerate light anesthesia. (Here's where the need for complete confidence in your vet comes into play. Being able to give good., hound-safe anesthesia with quick recovery is essential.)

 

Is your vet doing the CXR only to r/o lung mets - he wasn't planning on doing the CXR as part of routine pre-op screening, was he?

 

Speaking only for myself, this is what I'd consider:

 

1. Have a good sit-down with your vet before to find out what he has in mind, and why. Does he think Bandit really needs a dental because of dental disease or pain? If Bandit isn't able to eat comfortably or has dental infections, and my goal is to keep him comfortable above all else, I would probably agree to go ahead with it unless there were other risks that outweighed the benefits..

 

2. Ask your vet why he feels it's necessary to sedate Bandit for the CXR. Ask him to at least attempt to do the film without sedation. Of course if you're definitely planning on doing the dental regardless of what the CXR shows, it probably makes sense to let him go ahead and sedate him, then immediately do the dental afterwards.

 

Even if you know you would only do palliative care should he turn out to have osteo, if the vet feels that the dental will improve Bandit's quality of life and his comfort, it might be worth doing.

 

D*mn -- sending positive, healing thoughts to both of you.

[EllenEveBaz]

Just sending good thoughts along to you, the DH, and your Flying Bandito.

[joejoesmom]

I agree with tbhounds and batmom.

 

One thing people have not mentioned yet. Do not let the vet do a bone biopsy. If it is osteo, the biopsy itself can break the bone. Since Bandit is not a candidate for amputation, that would mean letting him go right there. Dr. Couto at OSU can often diagnose osteo just from an x-ray. If further tests are necessary, have your vet do a fine needle aspirate, guided by ultrasound.

 

I agree, sedation shouldn't be necessary for a chest x-ray or even a lateral view of a limb. So unless you would do the dental anyway even if he has osteo, I would go somewhere where they would take a good digital xray of the leg (lateral) and chest without sedation.

 

For me, if my elderly hound was not a candidate for amputation, I probably wouldn't have a dental done. Osteo is so painful, I would think the pain drugs for osteo would also cover any pain from their mouth. On average, most dogs with osteo who do not undergo amp/chemo live for no more than 2 to 3 months. The exception would be if the teeth trouble keep the dog from enjoying the rest of his life as much as possible; for example, if he couldn't eat or infection compromised his very short term health.

 

That being said, if your dog is going to be sedated enough for a dental for other reasons (x-ray, FNA, etc.) -- I would go with a teeth cleaning without extractions but with injection of antibiotics if necessary.

 

Finally, I want to say: There are many, many possible causes for a lump. If the x-ray is not indicative of osteo, go for the full shebang on the dental. Lumps can be totally benign or even a cancer that is treatable.

 

Well thats my 2 cents for what its worth.

 

Jane

[IansMom]

I love the picture of Bandit! He's beautiful. One of the board member's at our local GPA chapter told my husband and I about a product called PetzLife Oral Spray. It really does take the plaque off. There is a gel formulation that we tried and didn't particularly care for. The spray is easy to use and works well. We get so nervous about dentals because of anesthesia and I think this will help delay the need for dentals in the future. Anyway, I hope this helps a little and I will say a prayer for Bandit tonight.

[iluvgreys]

Adding my good thoughts and prayers for Bandit and your DH.

[Guest Adrianne]

Bandit is a beautiful boy, and I'm so sorry you're going through this. Sending you tons of good thoughts and prayers.

 

There's lots I wanted to say, but I can't get my thoughts to come out right. When you get to the vet, just listen to your heart and to Bandit, and you'll know what course of action to follow.

[Guest greybookends]

OH Ducky I am so sorry you are having to go down this path again. I have no advice as I have been spared these ordeals to this point but I know my day is coming sooner or later. It is good to know that there are so many here with first hand knowledge and many different forms of advice to help you. I have said a prayer for you and Bandit. It is all I can do right now. You know how to reach me if you just want to talk or cry.

[RaineysMom]

sending many hugs your way, Ducky :hope

[greytpups]

I can't add too much to the replies, but I would question if the dental is required due to bacterial infections. If bacteria is worsening his health, then a dental may be necessary...just something to ponder...

 

I'm so sorry you have to go through this for you and Bandit

 

 

[Charlies_Dad]

I'll throw my two cents in. We have not sedated Charlie for any of his x-rays. I have actually picked him up, put him on the table twice now for his. He doesn't like the initial turn to get him on the table but once there and me holding him, he does fine. Also if it is that dreaded thing, my opinion is no dental. It doesn't make a lot of sense at 13 and if it is the 'c', I would not put him through that.

 

You both are in our thoughts and I really hope it is not what you are suspecting.

Edited January 14, 2011 by Charlies_Dad

[duncan41]

No words, just :grouphug

[Guest ss556]

So sorry to read this Ducky. Alan wasn't sedated for xrays either. They just manipulated him in order to get them done. See if that can be the case for Bandit.

[NeylasMom]

Is today x-ray day? Hoping for a positive update.

[macoduck]

Better news than I had hoped.

 

Vet really poked and prodded at that lump. He did not feel it was in the bone. It is a tissue tumor of some kind and he felt it was attached.

Bandit will not be getting a dental. Vet said at his age and condition to avoid the dental. He's seen worse teeth. He does not believe in antibiotics as a prophylactic.

He had his yearly heartworm test and blood taken for a basic panel. Results will come in next week but vet doesn't expect any surprises.

Heart and lungs sounded good.

 

The plan is to monitor the size of the tumor and notify vet of the changes.

Vet recommended the CET chews which we will do along with the Petzlife gel. He can't tolerate a toothbrush so we'll use wet gauze.

I did not want any of the yearly vaccines due to his age and vet was OK with that.

Vet is willing to do xrays without sedation but feels they were not needed now. (Plus this small clinic doesn't have an xray machine - it's at their hospital site.)

He was also tickled by the page-long typed list of questions and my concerns regarding choices for Bandit.

 

Bandit's hind end did sink/collapse several times during the exam and in trying to get back to the car. He was exhausted but ready for dinner and is now napping.

 

I feel better now. The tumor will still be something to keep an eye on. Bandit tolerates Rimadyl well so we'll keep him comfortable.

 

All of your posts helped me get a better perspective on this situation. He had a hard life before coming to us. He deserves a very comfortable end of life, which hopefully is no time soon.

[NeylasMom]

So glad to hear the vet does not think the tumor is in the bone and that Bandit will not need to go under for the dental!!

 

Did the vet not feel a biopsy of the mass was necessary? Would you not choose to remove it surgically if it were not benign? I don't know much about tissue masses in places like that so my questions may be totally irelevant.

 

Either way, great news all around! Happy to hear it! And for a quietly resting Bandit. He is a handsome boy.

[Houndtime]

Good news overall for your senior citizen.

[Guest jordan]

Sounds like a good vet visit to me!!! Hugs to you and Bandit!

 

j