Help Requested for Elderly Greyhound's Care

[nycinpdx]

I'm hoping someone can help me with my 12-1/2 year old greyhound Leo. I've had him since he was 1-1/2. He has had a multitude of health issues over the years, and he now has arthritis, disc issues, hypothyroidism, mitral valve disease and some weakness and neuropathy in his back legs. I started taking him to PT about three months ago since he became unable to climb the stairs to my bedroom and started struggling during walks. The journey's been up and down and all around. The PT vet is amazing, and he's had adjustments and acupuncture and shock therapy, and I am able to do TENS treatments now from home. They tried the water treadmill last week and he was unable to use his back legs at all. Now he's got feeling back so the treatments are much more conservative, with mobility and other manual strength exercises. 

I love him, of course, but he is challenging many ways. He's very needy and barks if I'm out of his sight for too long...like five-ten minutes. (Unless he's asleep, or, strangely, left completely alone in the house.) So, at night I have been sleeping downstairs with him on the couch or on a roll out bed on the floor. He also needs to go out in the middle of the night to pee and/or poop 9 nights out of ten, usually about 11:30 and then again at 4-5 am. So, it also just makes sense to stay downstairs since we'll need to go out anyway. 

I cannot keep this up. And I can only afford his care, of course, if I keep working, but I may not be able to keep working if I keep this up. I have him because although my ex-husband wanted him, he bonded to me, and I was willing and able to care for him. I am trying my best to care for him and do his daily exercises, but I also work full-time from home, and between taking him out 6-9 times a day, feeding him by hand due to his cervical issues, and all of the other Leo-related tasks (including driving him to and from PT once a week) I'm losing it. I'm basically a wreck, between body pain from sleeping on the couch/floor and extreme fatigue from never sleeping through the night. 

He's on of drugs and supplements of course: gabapentin and l-thyroxine and enalapril and trazodone just to name a few. (Though I'm starting to reduce trazodone because although it knocks him out, which is wonderful, when he's awake he's unsteady and unable to walk.) 

Another hitch to all of this is that I have a roommate, so I can't just let him bark at night while I sleep in my bed and am hesitant to leave him alone because if she's home he'll bark constantly.  I have no idea how all of this will play out and am looking for advice and information from those with more experience. I know that he can die suddenly from something unexpected, but he can also go on for years. What will those years be like, especially if he's losing feeling in his back legs and is having trouble walking? As most of you may know, it's hard to get much time with your vet to have this kind of conversation post-covid. If there's someone else I should talk to, or something else I can read, please let me know. Thanks for any help you can provide! 

[Time4ANap]

We've had a number of seniors that made their way here due to deaths of owners, owners going into nursing home etc. We have loved every minute of every senior. Some of them stayed for years, others were only here for as little as 3 weeks before we had to make the decision that none of us want to make. 

It sounds like you have done everything possible to care for Leo. At some point, you have to consider if he still has an adequate quality of life. We found ourselves constantly asking that question with some of the dogs who obviously had numerous health issues when they arrived. 

Our first boy, Rocket was my heart dog. Eventually after all of the treatments, injections etc, he lost the use of his back legs about 90% of the time. We made the decision to let him go before he injured himself further because he would try repeatedly to get up, even thoough he could only manage to do so once or twice a day. We are of the belief that a day too soon is better than a day too late when it comes to having to euthanize a dog. Rocket no longer had the quality of life he was used to even though he was otherwise healthy and spoiled rotten. No walks, no car rides, no running outside or sunbathing in the yard, and we knew his time was up. Those were all the things he loved and they were no longer an option. 

If you are risking injury to yourself, you have to take that into consideration as well. We were both risking serious injury every time we had to lift our 85lb boy. 

I would have this conversation with your vet and maybe reach out to some other local greyhound owners if you know any and get their perspective and long term prognosis You will know if it's truly time, but often we are so wrapped up in the care of the dog that we don't stop to think if we are doing it for them, or actually doing it for ourself. Only you can decide the right course of action, but be sure to take quality of life into account for both of you. 

We wish you and Leo the best. Spoil him rotten for all of us here while you can. 

[greytpups]

I would reach out to your ex if you have evaluated his quality of life and it’s still good. Sometimes we need to ask hard questions, such as what are you waiting for? I’d also be concerned about the amount of pain meds and if he is truly out of pain. 
 

Perhaps you need someone to come in and take him out for you to give yourself a break. You obviously love him dearly, but it sounds like neither of you have a good quality of life right now. Hope you can find some answers.

 

 

 

Edited June 18, 2023 by greytpups

[mychip1]

No advice....just prayers for you and Leo.

[FiveRoooooers]

19 minutes ago, Time4ANap said:

We've had a number of seniors that made their way here due to deaths of owners, owners going into nursing home etc. We have loved every minute of every senior. Some of them stayed for years, others were only here for as little as 3 weeks before we had to make the decision that none of us want to make. 

It sounds like you have done everything possible to care for Leo. At some point, you have to consider if he still has an adequate quality of life. We found ourselves constantly asking that question with some of the dogs who obviously had numerous health issues when they arrived. 

Our first boy, Rocket was my heart dog. Eventually after all of the treatments, injections etc, he lost the use of his back legs about 90% of the time. We made the decision to let him go before he injured himself further because he would try repeatedly to get up, even thoough he could only manage to do so once or twice a day. We are of the belief that a day too soon is better than a day too late when it comes to having to euthanize a dog. Rocket no longer had the quality of life he was used to even though he was otherwise healthy and spoiled rotten. No walks, no car rides, no running outside or sunbathing in the yard, and we knew his time was up. Those were all the things he loved and they were no longer an option. 

If you are risking injury to yourself, you have to take that into consideration as well. We were both risking serious injury every time we had to lift our 85lb boy. 

I would have this conversation with your vet and maybe reach out to some other local greyhound owners if you know any and get their perspective and long term prognosis You will know if it's truly time, but often we are so wrapped up in the care of the dog that we don't stop to think if we are doing it for them, or actually doing it for ourself. Only you can decide the right course of action, but be sure to take quality of life into account for both of you. 

We wish you and Leo the best. Spoil him rotten for all of us here while you can. 

This.

Currently on my couch are greyhounds #19 and 20, nearing ages 11 and 12. I've only had one get to 14.1; the others ranged from seven on up. We all hope for as much time together as possible and that Leo has been with you for 11 years is a wonderful gift to both of you! You have taken and are taking the right senior care steps to try give him the best quality of life possible. I think a very good number of us move our sleeping arrangements downstairs to accommodate our hounds, knowing that it's temporary. For me, with some of my seniors, stepping back and doing an honest evaluation of their quality of life was helpful to making the decision. With some of the others, it was obvious that their time was now, or very near. Ask yourself is Leo still getting around under his own power, is he still able to eat and enjoy his meals, does he have more good days that not. But also, how progressed have his ailments become and could a crisis be lurking. That is something we all try to avoid as much as possible. You don't want your last memories of Leo to be of him in crisis, nor would you want him to go through that (thinking a fracture here). Have you asked Leo what he wants? It's not so woo-woo. Sitting quietly and having a heart-to-heart can often bring things to light.

I wish you and Leo peace and when his time does come, trust in your gut and heart that you made the right decision based on your love for your boy

[MP_the4pack]

Is a dog door an option? It's been a life saver for me with older dogs needing to go out frequently. 

[greysmom]

At some point, you can't stop time.  If you have a vet you trust, or his rehab staff, ask them for their opinion.   Talk about his real level of pain and if you can help lessen that any further.  Talk about his level of physical deterioration and if there is any realistic and concrete steps you could take to get him any better.   Really evaluate how you could/will manage as his condition deteriorates even further.  And I always think about what *I* would want to have happen if I was in the same physical state.  

Considering euthanasia isn't a failure.  Releasing them from a body that has become a burden to them is the final gift we can give our companion animals.  And I will second what's been said - better to let them go a day too soon rather than a day too late.  A day spent with them feeling (relatively) good, rather than scared and in pain at the e-vet from a medical crisis.

Are you actually in Portland, OR??  Or is it the Maine one??   If you're in OR, we have used these folks both for dogs and cats, and have loved their gentle direction and compassionate service.  I will use this way every time I can as it's much calmer and easier on everyone.

Compassionate Care - In Home Euthanasia

[nycinpdx]

Thank you all for your helpful and thoughtful responses. Leo and I have had a spell of good days, and he seems to be enjoying life as much as a 12-year-old Leo can. We can't walk as long as we used to, but he is able to sniff and pee on most of the things.

On 6/18/2023 at 1:11 PM, Time4ANap said:

 

Rocket no longer had the quality of life he was used to even though he was otherwise healthy and spoiled rotten. No walks, no car rides, no running outside or sunbathing in the yard, and we knew his time was up. Those were all the things he loved and they were no longer an option. 

If you are risking injury to yourself, you have to take that into consideration as well. We were both risking serious injury every time we had to lift our 85lb boy. 

I would have this conversation with your vet and maybe reach out to some other local greyhound owners if you know any and get their perspective and long term prognosis You will know if it's truly time, but often we are so wrapped up in the care of the dog that we don't stop to think if we are doing it for them, or actually doing it for ourself. Only you can decide the right course of action, but be sure to take quality of life into account for both of you. 

We wish you and Leo the best. Spoil him rotten for all of us here while you can. 

This is SO helpful. When Leo came out of the water treadmill without the ability to stand on his back legs last week, I saw for the first time how instinctual it can be to know where the line is when it comes to keeping them alive. It was like a gut-punch. Thankfully, like I said, he's back to walking, and I'm supplementing with Myos Muscle Formula which should help steady him. Luckily he's now only 60 pounds (he was originally 85!) and I can get him in and out of the car relatively easily, without hurting myself too much.  

And he is DEFINITELY a spoiled boy, although I feel sure he doesn't think so. 

On 6/18/2023 at 1:13 PM, greytpups said:

I would reach out to your ex if you have evaluated his quality of life and it’s still good. Sometimes we need to ask hard questions, such as what are you waiting for? I’d also be concerned about the amount of pain meds and if he is truly out of pain. 

Perhaps you need someone to come in and take him out for you to give yourself a break. You obviously love him dearly, but it sounds like neither of you have a good quality of life right now. Hope you can find some answers.

I have considered reaching out to my ex, but it's been lovely having him out of my life all these years, and the idea of inviting him back in is a deterrent. However, my housemate stayed downstairs with Leo this weekend all day Saturday so that I could go upstairs and take a long bath and then a nap in my bedroom in my own bed! It was glorious! Thank you for your suggestions and reminders about good quality of life and giving myself a break.

23 hours ago, MP_the4pack said:

Is a dog door an option? It's been a life saver for me with older dogs needing to go out frequently. 

Unfortunately, a dog door is not an option. (I wish!) We have too many steps to get to the ground in the backyard, and he really struggles with them. 

On 6/18/2023 at 1:44 PM, FiveRoooooers said:

Ask yourself is Leo still getting around under his own power, is he still able to eat and enjoy his meals, does he have more good days that not. But also, how progressed have his ailments become and could a crisis be lurking. That is something we all try to avoid as much as possible. You don't want your last memories of Leo to be of him in crisis, nor would you want him to go through that (thinking a fracture here). Have you asked Leo what he wants? It's not so woo-woo. Sitting quietly and having a heart-to-heart can often bring things to light.

Yes, thank you for this! He is still able to get up and down from his bed and go for walks. He enjoys his meals and seeing his people (and neighbor dogs). I am concerned about a crisis. He's recently had lab work and x-rays which all look good. He seems to be in good health according to his vet, which adds a bit to my confusion. (Again, he's my first dog.) Part of my reason for reaching out here is to get an idea of what could happen, while understanding, of course, that no one can predict the future. I love your idea of sitting with Leo and asking him what he wants. It'll be interesting to see what he says. (He's a very talkative hound. )

 

22 hours ago, greysmom said:

At some point, you can't stop time.  If you have a vet you trust, or his rehab staff, ask them for their opinion.   Talk about his real level of pain and if you can help lessen that any further.  Talk about his level of physical deterioration and if there is any realistic and concrete steps you could take to get him any better.   Really evaluate how you could/will manage as his condition deteriorates even further.  And I always think about what *I* would want to have happen if I was in the same physical state.  

Considering euthanasia isn't a failure.  Releasing them from a body that has become a burden to them is the final gift we can give our companion animals.  And I will second what's been said - better to let them go a day too soon rather than a day too late.  A day spent with them feeling (relatively) good, rather than scared and in pain at the e-vet from a medical crisis.

Are you actually in Portland, OR??  Or is it the Maine one??   If you're in OR, we have used these folks both for dogs and cats, and have loved their gentle direction and compassionate service.  I will use this way every time I can as it's much calmer and easier on everyone.

Compassionate Care - In Home Euthanasia

Yes, I'm in Portland, OR, and have Compassionate Care's information in my phone for when the time comes. Are they able to give advice prior to the decision to euthanise? 

And I should be able to have a more in-depth discussion with his PT vet in a couple of weeks at our next follow-up, where I can ask better questions about what to expect. 

You all are wonderful! Thank you for your care and please give all of your pups scritches and hugs from me and Leo!

[greysmom]

1 hour ago, nycinpdx said:

Yes, I'm in Portland, OR, and have Compassionate Care's information in my phone for when the time comes. Are they able to give advice prior to the decision to euthanise? 

 

This I don't know.  You might give them a call and ask.  They've always been super helpful and informative, but we've never called them until it was time.  Just explain you're struggling with the decision and whether one of their staff could drop by and see Leo and help guide you.  If they can't, all you've lost is the time of a phone call.

[Jerilyn]

I used a palliative care/end of life vet for my old girl for her final few months and it was a god send. She did do quality of life consultations, prescribed meds, and even gave me an emergency kit with sedatives in case something happened before the vet could get to the house.

It's a really difficult time, hang in there, give Leo a smooch.

[nycinpdx]

I've wondered about this. Did you use Blue Pearl Pet Hospice? 

[Jerilyn]

13 minutes ago, nycinpdx said:

I've wondered about this. Did you use Blue Pearl Pet Hospice? 

No, it was a local independent doctor. I've heard mixed things about Blue Pearl but the fact it's got hospice in the name sounds like it might be just what you need.

[MandysMom]

I used Lap of Love when my Sammy was going downhill. They have tools to help you assess quality of life. I also used one of their vets when it was time. It is never easy. Gentle hugs for Leo.

[cleptogrey]

On 6/20/2023 at 2:52 PM, nycinpdx said:

I've wondered about this. Did you use Blue Pearl Pet Hospice? 

i have very negative feelings about BLUE PEARL pet hospital and i'm sure their hospice is connected. I personally know 2 people who were taken for $30k rides and their team of vets, vet tech, receptionist won't give you the time of day when you call. from what i have been told they never consider quality of life and are out for the big bucks and abuse loving pet owners.I also looked up reviews when my good friend's dog was sent there. They were horrible!

 

have you spoken w/ your vet re: quality of life? if he is down to 60# from 85 that should say something. your hand feeding, letting him out many many times a day/night, your not sleeping.  I'm sad to say he's failing. I just can't believe that your personal vet has not discussed this with you.

I'm hoping for a peaceful time for you and your boy together and ultimately a stressless time for you. We all go thru this, very rarely is it a sudden demise resulting in a quick passing. The pros and cons of modern medicine.

[nycinpdx]

On 6/20/2023 at 12:46 PM, MandysMom said:

I used Lap of Love when my Sammy was going downhill. They have tools to help you assess quality of life. I also used one of their vets when it was time. It is never easy. Gentle hugs for Leo.

 

1 hour ago, cleptogrey said:

i have very negative feelings about BLUE PEARL pet hospital and i'm sure their hospice is connected. I personally know 2 people who were taken for $30k rides and their team of vets, vet tech, receptionist won't give you the time of day when you call. from what i have been told they never consider quality of life and are out for the big bucks and abuse loving pet owners.I also looked up reviews when my good friend's dog was sent there. They were horrible!

 

have you spoken w/ your vet re: quality of life? if he is down to 60# from 85 that should say something. your hand feeding, letting him out many many times a day/night, your not sleeping.  I'm sad to say he's failing. I just can't believe that your personal vet has not discussed this with you.

I'm hoping for a peaceful time for you and your boy together and ultimately a stressless time for you. We all go thru this, very rarely is it a sudden demise resulting in a quick passing. The pros and cons of modern medicine.

I contacted Lap of Love via their website and they called me within 15 minutes. Thank you for that advice @MandysMom - they were really lovely. No pressure to pay anything, they sent me a bunch of links to helpful info, including a daily assessment that is a life saver!

I'm glad I didn't go with Blue Pearl, and thanks for the confirmation @cleptogrey. I contacted them and didn't get a good vibe. And I'm aware that he's an old dog and will likely not be with me much longer. I understand that we've all been under a lot of stress during the last three years, especially vets, and even though he's not perfect feel good about him. (His previous long-term vet moved out of the state during covid.)  I appreciate your concern, and as much as I desire a stressless time, I appreciate that life gives us what it does. Thank goodness for this forum and help from loving people like all of you! 

Re: the latest, he's doing well, considering. He's enjoying his food, he's walking longer and better, I eliminated Trazodone at night after learning it can make dogs urinate more frequently, and added CBD so at we're both now sleeping better. (I'm still downstairs on the floor with him, but added more padding!) I feel sane again. I know this only goes one way, but that's true for all of us, so I'm doing the best I can for him on his/our journey! Thanks again. 

[Remolacha]

I bought a memory foam fold up mattress to sleep on when I needed to stay in the living room with old/sick dogs. You may not want to make that investment, but places like Costco and Walmart have memory foam mattress toppers for pretty cheap that make sleeping on the floor a LOT more comfortable! I am glad he is feeling a little better.

[nycinpdx]

3 hours ago, Remolacha said:

I bought a memory foam fold up mattress to sleep on when I needed to stay in the living room with old/sick dogs. You may not want to make that investment, but places like Costco and Walmart have memory foam mattress toppers for pretty cheap that make sleeping on the floor a LOT more comfortable! I am glad he is feeling a little better.

I did the same, and yes, it's much more comfortable. Thanks so much - I'm so glad too!

[greysmom]

Our bedroom is on the second floor too, so we bought a camp cot for when they start staying downstairs and need a human closer by.  With extra padding it's actually quite comfortable.

Good to hear he's rallying a bit.  Makes you appreciate every day even more.

{{{hugs}}}

[racindog]

OLDER GT'RS WILL REMEMBER GEORGE OF NOO ENGLAND WELL. THIS WAS SOMETHING HE SHARED AND IT IS ONE OF THE BEST THOUGHTS I HAVE EVER SEEN  ON CROSSING OVER. LOVE YOU GEORGE (AND CHICKEN ARMS!) NEVER FORGOTTEN.

Today, won of ma bestest pals evah, Joe T. Reporter, is makin’ his way on to whatever comes negst.

 

His body is old and tired, and his hoomans love him enuff to let him go in peace.  Joey is 13.  Dis is a gut punch for those who lubs him, butt KNOT a shock.  KNOT really.  Dis is a hard part of lubbing us houndies and other dogs.  We juss don’t libs dat long.  We will break yur heart won day.  Yu habs to be strong.

I read once, about a houndie who was 14 years old.  Dat is VERY old for a beeg dog.  Dis dog was so feeble, it was carried outside.  Held up to go tinkle and poo, and den gently laid down in a sunny spot.  When it had been outside for a while, it was carried inside.  It was being force fed.  And the hooman caretaker called the dog “a fighter.”  Dis dog was not a fighter!  Dis was a hooman in serious denial.  A hooman putting her own desire to keep her dog on dis earthly plain before the dog’s right to go beyond the weakness.  Beyond the pain.

It made me feel sick in ma stummik.  Dis is KNOT lubs.  Dis is selfish.  If we cud choose, we wood say goodbye to yu when we felt like da tiredness of age, the aches and pains, were more than we cud bear.  If yu look into owr eyes, really LOOK, you will see what yu need to see.  If all yu see is yur own reflection, yu are thinking of yurownself.  See our pain.  See our willingness to let go.  We will miss yu, we will.  Butt we would not choose to fight to stay for “a little longer” when my life is no longer one of value TO us.

The end should KNOT be about yu.  Love us enough to make it about us.  Do not profess yur lubs and torchur us in the end.

My Chikken Arms had to see her own belubbed fadder a feeble shadow of hisownself.  Unable to walk, talk, feed himself, or use the baffroom.  He lay there, in a bed, with pillows holding him up.  Twisted into a horrible S shape.  An air mask on, and rattles coming out of his chest.   It was the worst thing she’s ever seen.  And the hooman laws said there was NOTHING she cud do to make it stop. Nothing.

 

That does not have to be my end.  And she has promised me it won’t be.

When her Kramer was diagnosed wiff a malignant toomer, he was already 12.  She elected not to have him chopped up and irradiated.  She juss let him enjoy himself.  And won day, he looked her in the eye, and he laid down in the kitchen and wood KNOT eat.  It was as cleer a message as any dog cud ever send.  She called his vetimarian, and they said she cud bring him rite down.

As she sat in the clinic room wiff him, he perked up.  He started to prance even, and her heart broke.  She wondered why she was even there.  And da vetimarian said, “This happens all the time.  Yu know in yur heart yu came here for a reason.”  Kramer went in peace, and Chikken Arms and da vet boff sat on da floor wiff him and cried.  And de vet said, “I’ve never had a client call me the day after they let their dog go and say, ‘Why did I do it?’ but I have had many call me and ask, ‘Why did I wait so long’.”

Trust me hoomans, if yur dog cud tawk, he wood agree.  Better won day too early den a day too late.

Love me.  Cherish me.  Remember me.  Let me go when it’s time.

 

[MandysMom]

On 6/28/2023 at 1:07 PM, nycinpdx said:

 

I contacted Lap of Love via their website and they called me within 15 minutes. Thank you for that advice @MandysMom - they were really lovely. No pressure to pay anything, they sent me a bunch of links to helpful info, including a daily assessment that is a life saver!
 

I'm glad they were helpful.