HELP!! My Morrie has Protein Losing Enteropathy and he is starving

[LizChicagoGO]

Morrie, 8 year old, has PLE.  He needs vet food and the Royal Canin and Hills are not working. He has lost 15 pounds.  He cannot eat chicken.

I've tried varieties of Royal Canin and Hills and I've struck out.  He cannot eat the Purina EN.  I tried the Purina Hydrolyzed and that is a no.

 

Help

Liz Jurkacek

ejlaw1@aol.com

 

[Rickiesmom]

Can he eat turkey or pork, boiled to remove as much fat as possible, with white rice?

We had a different intestinal problem many years ago, but a single starch and a single protein got us over the hump.  Not an indefinite solution, but useful in the short run if it would work.

No idea if fasting him before switching would help, someone with medical knowledge will hopefully see this soon.

[MP_the4pack]

Can he eat eggs? If not chicken eggs, duck? Any other fowl? 

[tbhounds]

PLE is an intensely complicated disease.  Treatment options vary greatly and dependent on previous diagnostics (biopsy, blood work-ie General chem, TLI..). Can you reply how this was diagnosed and to which meds you are trying?

[greysmom]

Talk with your vet about making him food at home.  The only people I've heard of having long-term success in managing this disease use the single protein-single carb as mentioned above, prepared at home.  One used chicken breast and macaroni, one used ground beef and various pasta shapes.  Both people had to sit down and hand feed their dog each meal.  If you use enriched pasta the dog gets at least some of the vitamins and minerals needs for good nutrition.  Your vet can also advise you about any additives which may be helpful.

[LizChicagoGO]

1 hour ago, tbhounds said:

PLE is an intensely complicated disease.  Treatment options vary greatly and dependent on previous diagnostics (biopsy, blood work-ie General chem, TLI..). Can you reply how this was diagnosed and to which meds you are trying?

So, he was on Purina EN with Tylan (powder) for over a year.  In September, he began w/even looser poop than usual.  It then went to diarhea.  We then gave him pepcid along with metamucil.  That was 2 weeks and didn't work.

 

Then by October his condition was very very worse and we went to Vet who ran blood tests and said go to ER vet ASAP he needs and Albumium transfusion.

We did that transfusion along with a B12 shot.

 

So, he is on metronidizol 250 mg per meal

he is on plavix 1 time a day

he is on 40 mg prednisone (20 per meal)

and 250 mg mycophenolate (one per meal).

 

I think the prednisone is disasterous and I am working to get the amout lowered ASAP.  We've had 4 blood tests since Oct. and I am waiting for my vet now to agree to lower it to 30 or 35 mg per day.

 

The food is a whole other drama/saga.

I have tried Royal Canin wet: in the hydrolyzed protein (can) 

and the R.C. venison.

I mix both with R.C. dry venison.

 

It is not working because he will eat it but he lost 5 additional pounds between the middle of November and now.  He is down to 58 pounds and it is a critical situation.

So in short I am combatting two problems:  the prednisone (and maybe other meds)

But, he is not absorbing anything in his foods. So it just goes right through him.

What I need are food ideas other than Royal Canin because those are not working.  I have a friend who has the Hills D/D food which I can move to.

Probably more than you want to know.

 

Liz Jurkacek

 

[tbhounds]

So as I understand it you are treating as presumptive IBD with ple with out having done a biopsy? The meds you are giving sound spot on but, with such horrible systemic side effects from the prednisone (extreme muscle loss=weight loss).  I might suggest switching your corticosteroid choice to budesonide.  Budesonide is a very powerful corticosteroid however unlike pred there are very little systemic side effects-instead it remains within the gi tract.  A common budesonide dose is 3mg/day.  I would also consider giving B-12 injections (most likely weekly).  Regarding food-feeding a low fat/higher fiber diet novel protein/carb is standard protocol.  Fat is very hard to digest and can be responsible for loose stools/diarrhea-even with a healthy gut.  Unfortunately many hypoallergenic foods are higher in fat content to make them more palatable.  While not ideal for an ibd dog you may want to inquire about feeding a short course Hills W/D.  The W/D is labeled as a gastro food-it’s not hypoallergenic but, is low fat and high in fiber.  It may resolve the immediate diarrhea allowing him to feel better at the least.  Egg whites are all albumin and should be fine to feed too.  Finally, have you been working with an internal medicine Dr?  

[Beachbum1]

Facebook developed that condition 6 months ago.  He has been on Prescription W/D dry food since then.

[IndyandHollyluv]

Liz - my heart goes out to you. I lost my sweet Holly to PLN in 2011. It's been awhile and I have learned much since then but I also tried everything and she would have none of it. Dry kibble was a definite NO! She also had an duodenal ulcer but refused all meds. As I recall, she was diagnosed in July and I had to say goodbye in December as there was little more I could do. She was 12+. I was heartbroken.

Every meal I feed my current hounds is always warm. Kibble plus canned food warmed in the microwave mixed with a little water -- whatever works at this point. Minced hard-boiled egg whites warmed in the microwave. Warm cooked (frozen) vegetables. I have found macaroni/pasta to be a better choice than rice for my seniors (small size -- like little sea shells).

I adopted a senior girl years ago but toward the end she only would eat canned meat (i.e., salmon, chicken). I don't know what the answer is but sometimes it is whatever will work.

This past year I have purchased: (1) Stella and Chewy's Grain Free Stella's Stew -- comes in an 11 oz. carton; there are a few varieties. Hounds like them - and I typically add a little warm water and mix in with their kibble plus cooked vegetables.

Also (2) "The Honest Kitchen" sells 5.5 oz "Pour Overs - Slow Cooked Stews;" again several varieties in a little carton. A "meal enhancer/topper." I heat with or without a little water and pour over kibble -- or can be served alone. I wish these products had been available when Holly was ill.

When you have a sick pup or picky eater -- you just do the best you can.

Wishing the very best for your Morrie.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Blaidd49]

Has your vet suggested RxClay to slow down the passage of food through the tract and aid absorption. Have seen success with some GI issues but not sure about PLE

 

[lizjaye]

7 hours ago, tbhounds said:

So as I understand it you are treating as presumptive IBD with ple with out having done a biopsy? The meds you are giving sound spot on but, with such horrible systemic side effects from the prednisone (extreme muscle loss=weight loss).  I might suggest switching your corticosteroid choice to budesonide.  Budesonide is a very powerful corticosteroid however unlike pred there are very little systemic side effects-instead it remains within the gi tract.  A common budesonide dose is 3mg/day.  I would also consider giving B-12 injections (most likely weekly).  Regarding food-feeding a low fat/higher fiber diet novel protein/carb is standard protocol.  Fat is very hard to digest and can be responsible for loose stools/diarrhea-even with a healthy gut.  Unfortunately many hypoallergenic foods are higher in fat content to make them more palatable.  While not ideal for an ibd dog you may want to inquire about feeding a short course Hills W/D.  The W/D is labeled as a gastro food-it’s not hypoallergenic but, is low fat and high in fiber.  It may resolve the immediate diarrhea allowing him to feel better at the least.  Egg whites are all albumin and should be fine to feed too.  Finally, have you been working with an internal medicine Dr?  

Thank you TBhounds.  You are now the 2nd person in about an hour who recommended budsonide.  I will check on that ASAP.   Morrie is getting B-12 injections weekly (that just started_.  I'm freaking out because his Albumin level has dropped.  It was 2.3 about 3 weeks ago and as of Saturday it was down to 1.9.  I just also did some research and found out about eggs and feed 2 hard boiled eggs to Morrie tonight.  You are so wonderful.  This gives me something to moves towards.

I do not have an internist yet.  I will need one.  Tha

t too is my next step when the upping the prednisone to 50 mg two times a day does not work.

[lizjaye]

Thank you all.  Some amazing advice.  Thanks.

 

[RaineysMom]

Our Zeke has suspected IBD with an intolerance to chicken so he is on the RC Hydrolyzed dry food but also eats a variety of raw food (when he eats).  He also gets a B12 tablet daily (Cobalequin) and a B12 shot every Sunday and I really think they help (he's been on the B12 for 2 years now). https://www.1800petmeds.com/Cobalequin-prod12068.html?mrkgcl=364&mrkgadid=3326531480&AFFID=GG&ID=3326531480&Price=EMAILC&creative=380957260276&device=c&matchtype=b&network=g&gclid=EAIaIQobChMImf_TkNur5gIVgtdkCh09mg4wEAAYASAAEgLSlvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds   The B12 and syringes we get from the vet as well (online store).

for raw, he gets beef tripe, raw turkey (cut up, not ground, won't eat it ground...Mom has to cut whole turkey breasts into tiny cubes for his Highness), cubed up beef (whatever's on sale, like round roast, rump roast, fat removed), 73% hamburger (won't eat anything with less fat), cubed up beef heart/turkey heart, duck hearts and beef liver (but very little liver), cottage cheese - all rotated as best I can (he doesn't get all of that in one meal).  We've been battling D since September and he gets 2 ProPectalin tables 3 x day and Olewo carrot "meatballs" (cooked) almost every day.

he just one day up and decided he didn't want to eat anymore (this was January of 2017) and we've been battling/hand feeding/whatever it takes to get him to eat since then.  I do not know if he has PLE -- how was Morrie diagnosed?

sending hugs and prayers you can figure this out, Liz.

Edited December 10, 2019 by RaineysMom

[apandazamora]

On 12/9/2019 at 8:32 AM, LizChicagoGO said:

Morrie, 8 year old, has PLE.  He needs vet food and the Royal Canin and Hills are not working. He has lost 15 pounds.  He cannot eat chicken.

I've tried varieties of Royal Canin and Hills and I've struck out.  He cannot eat the Purina EN.  I tried the Purina Hydrolyzed and that is a no.

 

Help

Liz Jurkacek

ejlaw1@aol.com

 

Hi Liz, my dog Summer was diagnosed with PLE in December, however his symptoms began around early November. At times he’s seemed to get better, but then falls back again. This happened about twice. It’s very painful and I’m trying everything. Wondering if you have any suggestions for me and Summer?

[FiveRoooooers]

5 hours ago, apandazamora said:

Hi Liz, my dog Summer was diagnosed with PLE in December, however his symptoms began around early November. At times he’s seemed to get better, but then falls back again. This happened about twice. It’s very painful and I’m trying everything. Wondering if you have any suggestions for me and Summer?

I'm sorry for your pup's diagnosis. This thread is four years old and you'll likely get more responses if you start a new one. You can also search the H&M forum for associated threads but you'll need to spell out P-L-E as the forum doesn't allow searches using three-letter terms. Good luck!

[macoduck]

5 hours ago, apandazamora said:

Hi Liz, my dog Summer was diagnosed with PLE in December, however his symptoms began around early November. At times he’s seemed to get better, but then falls back again. This happened about twice. It’s very painful and I’m trying everything. Wondering if you have any suggestions for me and Summer?

Better to start a new thread describing your greyhound's symptoms, age, tests done, meds, and current food.
Liz has not been on Greytalk since 2019. Type PLE in the search box in the Health & Medical section and look for the newest posts on this topic for current treatments.