Osteo Thread Part 9

[greysmom]

The cytoxan never bothered Dude at all.

[seeh2o]

I met with another vet for a second opinion on next steps, I will meet with Bowie's regular oncologist on Sept 1 to see how he wants to proceed. The second vet, who has a cancer-only practice and is very straightforward and also supports raw feeding (during chemo, too) and homepathic support, prefers to use Lumestine rather than Cytoxan. She also said that of the dogs she treats with Cytoxan (for things other than osteo) she has not had a case of hemorrhagic cystitis because she instructs the owners to give it with broth, which increases the dogs liquid intake, among other things. She really wants Bowie on OncoSupport and two other supplements that I can't remember right now (I don't have them nearby), but I'll share here later. She took her off a couple because she felt they were not helpful at all and for the use of CBD oil she only recommends the HempRx version, period.

[NeylasMom]

I met with another vet for a second opinion on next steps, I will meet with Bowie's regular oncologist on Sept 1 to see how he wants to proceed. The second vet, who has a cancer-only practice and is very straightforward and also supports raw feeding (during chemo, too) and homepathic support, prefers to use Lumestine rather than Cytoxan. She also said that of the dogs she treats with Cytoxan (for things other than osteo) she has not had a case of hemorrhagic cystitis because she instructs the owners to give it with broth, which increases the dogs liquid intake, among other things. She really wants Bowie on OncoSupport and two other supplements that I can't remember right now (I don't have them nearby), but I'll share here later. She took her off a couple because she felt they were not helpful at all and for the use of CBD oil she only recommends the HempRx version, period.

I would love to know more about the supplements she recommended and told you to stop and why.

[MaryJane]

I checked the website for the vaccine that is out of U Penn and it is still at pre-release. This is the link - go down about 1/2 the page and you will see the Osteosarcoma vaccine.

http://www.aratana.com/pipeline/

 

Meanwhile, Adam developed a rash (pustules ) on his back legs and the oncology & dermatology teams at Tufts checked him and it does not appear a reaction to the chemo - looks like a bacterial dermatitis and they are not concerned as of yet. He will be on antibiotics for 3 weeks and depending on how he looks next week, we can still proceed with the chemo ...

[seeh2o]

I would love to know more about the supplements she recommended and told you to stop and why.

Her name is Dr. Alice Villalobos, she was one of the vets consulted for the book, "Help Your Dog Fight Cancer: What Every Caretaker Should Know About Canine Cancer, Featuring Bullet's Survival Story"

 

Dr. Alice had me get rid of some of the supplements I sent to you earlier and added others. She told me I could get rid of the:

• probiotic (Bowie isn't having GI issues, so it is unnecessary)
• Essiac (she does not feel there is data supporting its use)
• Canine Matrix - MRM Recovery / Healthy Pet (she does not feel there is data supporting its use)
• Canna Companion (she said it has little to know CBD in it, per laboratory evaluation)

She STRONGLY suggested that I added:

• Onco Support by Rx Pet. (also at request Dr Ayl who is Bowie's oncologist and Dr Ohashi who is a colleague of Dr. Ayl's who has seen Bowie a few times). The best price I could find was on Amazon. She gets 1 scoop 2 times a day (1 scoop = 1Tablespoon) mixed in with her food. They told me dogs either like it or they hate it. Fortunately, Bowie falls into the first camp!
• Cellular Forte IP-6 and Inositol by Integrative Therapeutics. I found it for almost $20 less than what I paid for it in the office. I am going to buy it from Only Natural Pet and have it on auto delivery. She gets 3 capsules twice a day, 20 - 30 minutes before meals. It's more effective on an empty stomach.
• Agaricus Bio by Atlas World. She gets 2 capsules twice a day, 20 - 30 min before each meal, so I give it to her with the Cellular Forte. I'm still looking for a good price on it online. Her office charged $31.95.
• She prefers Hemp Rx oil to the other brands of CBD oils out there. It's made by the same company that makes the Onco Support powder. It's not cheap and I'm unclear if Bowie needs it right now. I need to email her and ask.

[seeh2o]

Does anyone know of a really great place in Pittsburgh to take a dog with osteo? I'm in another group and someone needs a good second opinion. Took their dog to Pittsburgh Veterinary Specialty and Emergency Center, vet's advice sounded really hinky. I'm guessing someone here may have a good referral.

[NeylasMom]

Yes, this facility:

https://www.universityveterinaryspecialists.com/about-us/

 

No first-hand experience but I feel pretty confident recommending it based on what I know and my mom's experience with her dog. She's seen multiple vets there, but most notably her dog had surgery done on a liver tumor which a specialist at another facility had said was inoperable. The oncologist said she didn't even need chemo or radiation afterward and it gave her a new lease on life.

[seeh2o]

Thank you. I didn't put it together, but that's where Couto is.

Edited August 19, 2017 by seeh2o

[NeylasMom]

Thank you. I didn't put it together, but that's where Couto is.

Oh yes, I totally forgot about that. My mom actually ended up seeing him for the post surgery part of it. He was the one who said no chemo.

[tbhounds]

Does anyone know of a really great place in Pittsburgh to take a dog with osteo? I'm in another group and someone needs a good second opinion. Took their dog to Pittsburgh Veterinary Specialty and Emergency Center, vet's advice sounded really hinky. I'm guessing someone here may have a good referral.

Did they see Dr Bridget Urie? She's fantastic and studied under Couto.

[seeh2o]

Did they see Dr Bridget Urie? She's fantastic and studied under Couto.

 

I don't think so. It was a very hinky / unsettling visit, several other people reported the same thing having gone there, so he's seeking a second opinion.

[tbhounds]

I don't think so. It was a very hinky / unsettling visit, several other people reported the same thing having gone there, so he's seeking a second opinion.

Dr Urie is amazing-she treated two of my girls while she was finishing her onco residency at Ohio State. Can't recommend her enough.

http://pvs-ec.com/doctors/bridget-urie

Edited August 20, 2017 by tbhounds

[seeh2o]

Dr Urie is amazing-she treated two of my girls while she was finishing her onco residency at Ohio State. Can't recommend her enough.

http://pvs-ec.com/doctors/bridget-urie

 

Thank you, I'll share this info with him.

[MaryJane]

FYI -- University of Penn looks like they might have some new clinical trials for osteo either upcoming or in process so make sure to check the AVMA database if your dog is newly diagnosed.

 

I just talked to the company producing the osteo vaccine - it is still in process and they are waiting to go to next step and that looks like it will be a another larger study rather than being available to public.

[seeh2o]

Bowie had her first post chemo follow up last week. She lost about 1.5 lbs (which she had gained during chemo and did not need). Her oncologist was very happy with how she's doing. She is starting Piroxicam daily, no other medication. He said none of the others, Cytoxan, Palladia or any of the others have been shown to be helpful with osteo, but Piroxicam does have some anti cancer properties. He prefers it to Rimadyl.

 

She's 10 months post first limp, 7 months post amputation. Praying for lots more time with my beautiful special girl.

Edited September 10, 2017 by seeh2o

[MaryJane]

Bowie had her first post chemo follow up last week. She lost about 1.5 lbs (which she had gained during chemo and did not need). Her oncologist was very happy with how she's doing. She is starting Piroxicam daily, no other medication. He said none of the others, Cytoxan, Palladia or any of the others have been shown to be helpful with osteo, but Piroxicam does have some anti cancer properties. He prefers it to Rimadyl.

 

She's 10 months post first limp, 7 months post amputation. Praying for lots more time with my beautiful special girl.

 

 

Wonderful news !

[greysmom]

Great news for you both!

[MaryJane]

This just crossed my news feed.

 

https://vet.osu.edu/vmc/cto/clinical-trials/dogs-forelimb-bone-tumor-osteosarcoma

[greysmom]

Interesting. And it sounds like you can have it done at a local - properly equipped - clininc, instead of having to travel extensively.

[seeh2o]

Thanks for sharing.

In reading it, seems like strange study design. The do the intervention in the tumor and then amputate. I don't understand the logic.

[greysmom]

My thought was that they want to examine the tumor by dissection post-amputation to determine how well it worked. Hard to do if it's still attached. Also, I wonder if the treatment releases anything from the tumor into the body, so they want to derease the chance of mets by following with amputation?? Or, since they aren't sure about the treatment, they want to amp anyway??

[MaryJane]

Thanks for sharing.

In reading it, seems like strange study design. The do the intervention in the tumor and then amputate. I don't understand the logic.

 

 

I thought that also however, it seems that when you amputate, it stops the release of something from the main mass and it allows the smaller masses to grow at that time and those smaller masses are not yet visible yet so they would not be picked up in scans. If they intervene, they might be able to stop the kill the smaller masses and then amputate the bigger one. At least that's the reasoning that I am hearing although, it seems that there are many ways to approach the main mass vs the smaller ones.

 

 

Oops, I was thinking of a different study - so ignore what I said above. I think this is a safety study so they do not know the strength of heat (dose) to use, possible initial problems (procedure), and what the effect would be on the leg. The only way that they can get an idea of how it worked is to have the leg examined and they would need to amputate to do this. I would imagine they would want to see if there were any tumor cells left at all and if there were - where they were in relation to the aiming of the heat.

 

Ok, well on to my 3rd edit -- I just rechecked this and it is a safety and feasibility study which means that quite a bit could go wrong (or right). They do not know what dose to use and whether this works at all in dogs.

Edited September 22, 2017 by MaryJane

[seeh2o]

Yikes, that could be really tough and go south. I heard from a woman whose dog was in the first round of the Aratana study, that we're all waiting to be released any minute for our dogs, the treatment helped her dog live longer, but it made him really sick. The theory was that they we're testing it to see how low/high the dosage needed to go to still be effective and reduced side effects.

Edited September 22, 2017 by seeh2o

[MP_the4pack]

Tanzi just had her 6 month post chemo checkup.

 

Dr. Mark said she had a "boring" checkup. We LIKE boring!!

Her lung x-rays were crystal clear and bloodwork perfect.

[seeh2o]

Tanzi just had her 6 month post chemo checkup.

 

Dr. Mark said she had a "boring" checkup. We LIKE boring!!

Her lung x-rays were crystal clear and bloodwork perfect.

Fantastic! Unremarkable is the best news to get!