Osteo Thread Part 9

[Batmom]

Glad she is doing well .

[seeh2o]

Bowie had her monthly bloodwork and physical. All looked good! I was concerned as she had *thrown up* some bile and bits of undigested food 3x 3 weeks ago. I increased her Pepcid to 20mg, 2x per day, added her probiotic back and added a *heaping* spoonful of plain whole milk Greek yogurt. That solved the problem.

 

I am very thankful, yesterday was the year anniversary of her limp first showing up. We thought she had overdone it playing with other greyhounds at the time. Little did I know.

Reposted because autocorrect likes to make me look illiterate!

[greysmom]

for Bowie!!

[MP_the4pack]

[NeylasMom]

Yay Bowie!

[seeh2o]

For those of you using CBD oil for your dogs, Innovet is having a big Black Friday sale and it's still on today. 30% off! They now have an even stronger CBD oil, 750mg. Bowie gets 2 droppers full of their 125mg CBD oil per day. I ordered the stronger stuff so I don't go through it as fast and, if the day comes she needs a stronger dose, I'll have it on hand. I've found their prices to be the best ones out there. I just received my first 750mg bottle last week, opened the envelope and oh my, it smelled like the back hallway of my high school!

[seeh2o]

I apologize if this is an ignorant question, but I don't think I've read about it before. If a dog lives post amputation and chemo, do they ever give a second round of chemo in the second year?

Edited December 18, 2017 by seeh2o

[NeylasMom]

I've never heard of that happening. The metronomic protocol is intended to prevent metastases moving forward. Chemo does carry long term health risks outside of just the immediate side effects like nausea, etc so my guess is its not warranted.

[greysmom]

I've never heard of it either, and Jens reasoning makes sense, but I've never heard why not. Maybe it's just not as effective? Not worth the risk of side effects? Leads to further bone loss?

 

If you're in touch with Dr Couto you might pose that to him. Or your onco.

[seeh2o]

I posted the question on another board, too, send it had been done, though I don't know the circumstances. I'm hoping to talk to Bowie's onco today, it's on my list of questions.

[NeylasMom]

Let us know what you find out. I'm curious.

[seeh2o]

Ok, here is the conversation I had with Bowie's oncologist today. He said they are prescribing Piroxicam because it is the only medication that has truly been studied and shown to have some anti cancer benefits. I asked about other NSAIDs and he said that any meds in the family of Piroxicam may cause the same problems for my girl. He said that most NSAIDs will have anti cancer benefits (I think because they reduce inflammation). I told him she had been on Rimadyl for several months when she was limping and it had no effect on her GI tract, so he thought that would be a good replacement for Piroxicam. We just need to watch her liver enzymes with that one. She goes in for monthly blood tests, so it should be easy to see if there is an issue.

 

I asked about giving a second round of chemotherapy. He said that it is rarely done in an osteo dog who is, for all intents an purposes, healthy. The reason being; they don't want the cancer cells to become resistant to it should it be needed if mets develop. If mets develop they would likely want to do chemo again. He then said that the newest treatment for mets, if there are 3 or fewer, is surgically to remove them. I am guessing that is followed up by chemo. We didn't go that far because he said that we can discuss that down the road if it becomes an issue. His feeling is that we got Bowie's osteo very very early and that's why she's doing so well. 13 months post first limp, 10 months post diagnosis (diagnosis was only through pathology report, 3 sets of xrays and 1 bone scan were inconclusive).

 

I'm an idiot and completely forgot to ask about Artemisinin because he called me during a meeting at work with some UCLA folks who are working with us on a study, so I was 100% discombobulated. I did follow up with a detailed email to my regular vet, who the onco wanted me to consult with anyway about the Rimadyl.

[MP_the4pack]

Tanzi update. After a bad scare, see thread "prayers please", Tanzi's chest x-rays are once again boring!

 

One year post amp!

[tbhounds]

Tanzi update. After a bad scare, see thread "prayers please", Tanzi's chest x-rays are once again boring!

One year post amp!

Fantastic! So happy for you and Tanzi <3

[greysmom]

Great news about Tanzi!

 

 

Ok, here is the conversation I had with Bowie's oncologist today. He said they are prescribing Piroxicam because it is the only medication that has truly been studied and shown to have some anti cancer benefits. I asked about other NSAIDs and he said that any meds in the family of Piroxicam may cause the same problems for my girl. He said that most NSAIDs will have anti cancer benefits (I think because they reduce inflammation). I told him she had been on Rimadyl for several months when she was limping and it had no effect on her GI tract, so he thought that would be a good replacement for Piroxicam. We just need to watch her liver enzymes with that one. She goes in for monthly blood tests, so it should be easy to see if there is an issue.

 

I asked about giving a second round of chemotherapy. He said that it is rarely done in an osteo dog who is, for all intents an purposes, healthy. The reason being; they don't want the cancer cells to become resistant to it should it be needed if mets develop. If mets develop they would likely want to do chemo again. He then said that the newest treatment for mets, if there are 3 or fewer, is surgically to remove them. I am guessing that is followed up by chemo. We didn't go that far because he said that we can discuss that down the road if it becomes an issue. His feeling is that we got Bowie's osteo very very early and that's why she's doing so well. 13 months post first limp, 10 months post diagnosis (diagnosis was only through pathology report, 3 sets of xrays and 1 bone scan were inconclusive).

 

I'm an idiot and completely forgot to ask about Artemisinin because he called me during a meeting at work with some UCLA folks who are working with us on a study, so I was 100% discombobulated. I did follow up with a detailed email to my regular vet, who the onco wanted me to consult with anyway about the Rimadyl.

 

Interesting. So they do actually look at an amp as "curative" in the sense that there is no (visible/detactable) cancer present following - unless and until lung mets appear? And I'm not sure I would do lung surgery on a dog; at least an open surgery. If it could be done laparoscopically (or pharygeally) that would be something to consider.

 

Thanks for asking!

[seeh2o]

Tanzi update. After a bad scare, see thread "prayers please", Tanzi's chest x-rays are once again boring!

 

One year post amp!

 

I am soooo happy to read this. Good girl, Tanzi!!!

Great news about Tanzi!

 

 

 

Interesting. So they do actually look at an amp as "curative" in the sense that there is no (visible/detactable) cancer present following - unless and until lung mets appear? And I'm not sure I would do lung surgery on a dog; at least an open surgery. If it could be done laparoscopically (or pharygeally) that would be something to consider.

 

Thanks for asking!

 

I don't think amputation is considered curative, but maybe as you say "curative"! I also wondered if they were removed laproscopically or pharygeally, too. We didn't get into that, hopefully we won't need to. My vet isn't keen on putting her on Artemisinin right now either. She's not an oncologist, but she is pretty much dead on with her diagnosis and treatment. I'm torn.

[NeylasMom]

What reason did she give? I don't see the harm, other than potentially financially.

[seeh2o]

Her reasoning is this,

"I have had clients use Artimesin, I do not recall any adverse problems. I also do not recall any dramatic results. She is on a lot of stuff and doing well so I am not sure you really want to add something more."

 

She's right, Bowie is on a lot of supplements and doing well.

Edited December 20, 2017 by seeh2o

[Annette]

Canine Osteosarcoma Vaccine

 

http://aratana.investorroom.com/2017-12-20-Aratana-Therapeutics-Granted-Conditional-License-for-a-Canine-Osteosarcoma-Therapeutic

[seeh2o]

I spoke to Bowie's oncologist yesterday, there is supposed to be at least one site for the vaccine trial in the Los Angeles area. I called them right away, they aren't 100% sure they will be doing the study, if they do it should be by March. Ugh, I want to start her on this months ago or today, not March. They told me to call monthly, which means I'll call weekly, probably pay them a visit on my day off, too.

Edited December 30, 2017 by seeh2o

[greysmom]

You go girl!

[Guest Marsroving]

Wow, it sure has been a long time since I logged in to Greytalk.

 

Our beautiful Mars Rover has been diagnosed with Osteo. Devastating, shocking, harrowing...so many words and none of them can adequately convey how this has effected my family.

 

I am so sorry for all of the greyhounds and grey-parents whose lives this disease has ravaged.

 

When others say that it comes out of nowhere, it really does. On Christmas day, while we were back home visiting, Rover came in from his potty break limping (back right leg) and obviously in distress. We checked his legs and could not find any boo-boo's, he didn't even cry out when we bent it and rubbed it down. Since greyhounds are unimaginably stoic, I gave him a bit of his left over pain medication from his recent tooth extraction that just so happened to be in his travel bag. At first we just figured he had pulled his back leg muscle and went on with our evening. I left to go visit my best friend and my wife stayed with her aunt, grandmother and our dogs.

 

According to my wife three hours after I left, a rock hard lump appeared on his right back leg. She said she was so terrified and shocked that she couldn't even work up the will to call me and barely slept (I had spent the night at my friends house since we rarely see each other).

 

The day after Christmas my wife picked me up from my dads so we could drive home to Wisconsin from Ohio. I can't even describe the feelings that flowed through me when my wife and Mars walked into my dads house and I saw the large mass on his hind leg that hadn't been there 24 hours earlier. I immediately called our vet and scheduled an appointment for the the next day.

 

I cried for half the drive back to Wisconsin. I have no idea how she kept it together for that endless car ride home.

 

Wednesday our worst nightmare became reality. When the x-ray's were taking twice as long as they normally would have we both began panicking. Bless Dr. Pete's heart, he tried to deliver the news with as much grace as possible. I recall the words "suspicious" and "needs to be further investigated" followed up with several pamphlets for local oncologists and resources. Thanks to Greytalk and the wonderful people at Greyhound Adoption of Ohio I knew instantly to request all of Mar's Rover's x-rays and recent blood work be emailed directly to Dr. Couto for an evaluation...and bless Dr. Couto for his promptness and frankness. Dr. Couto obtained Rover's records and responded to our initial email in under 5 hours from the time we left our vet's office.

 

Indeed, Rover has a primary bone tumor with osteosarcoma being the most likely diagnosis. In a matter of 5 days our lives have changed completely. The only thing that hasn't changed is our profound love of Mars' Rover.

 

Our focus now is the same as it has always been. Provide Mars with the best life we can. Love him with all that we are and make decisions with his best interests above all else. We don't know how much time we have left with our perfect big boy, but then again we never did in the first place.

 

Thank each and every one of you for the knowledge and wisdom you have shared on this forum. This has been a rough week to say the least but we are going to focus on living in the moment and not the terror of the unknown.

[MP_the4pack]

I'm sorry for the tragic news. I have a current OS survivor. She was diagnosed a year ago November. She had a front leg amp Nov 14. And hasn't looked back since.

 

Good luck with whatever decision you make. And remember whatever decision you make, it's not wrong because it's made with love.

[greysmom]

I'm so sorry about Mars Rover's diagnosis and that you're joining this club.

 

Please feel free to post updates for how he's doing, and any questions you might have, or just come here to let your worst fears out. We've all been there right where you are right now. Some of us have gone the amp route and some did pain management only, so someone will be able to answer your questions.

 

There is quite a bit of optimism right now with several schools doing trials of vaccines for treating osteo. You might ask your oncologist to see if Mars qualifies for any of them.

[BatterseaBrindl]

I am very sad to report that my Nixon has joined this horrible club

 

 

Thought if I kind of whispered that news that it might not hurt as much....

 

LF Proximal humerus

At 12.5 he will be kept very comfortable.... until he is not.

My heart is breaking ...