Guest LittleGreys Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 We took Munchie down to Wheeling today to Dr Radcliffe for her stem cell therapy. On his initial exam, he asked if her thyroid had ever been checked (she looks bad, and no it hasn't been checked), so that was a first step, and her thyroid is very low. He examined her joints, and wasn't sure why she is so very painful in her right shoulder. I knew that leg was the worst, but she developed a sepsis in that elbow 2 weeks ago which postponed her stem cell therapy, so I thought it was due to that and the big corn on that foot. He took a bunch of xrays and blew me away when he came back and said he is almost certain she has osteosarcoma in that shoulder. He wanted to confirm it, so he sent it to another dr who was unsure, so sent it to a radiologist for a 3rd opinion. That opinion is that it probably is a very early osteosarcoma. It could also be osteporosis, which would have a good chance of turning into osteosarc. There is a very definite loss of bone density. The only thing we can do now is wait. Four weeks for more xrays. As a vet tech, I know that in 4 weeks if it is osteo we should be seeing a profound change. In all my worries over the stem cell procedure, osteo never even remotely entered my mind. She cannot have the stem cell therapy until we rule out osteo, and not at all if it is osteo. What a shocking day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheFullHouse Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 Playing the waiting game is so hard. Prayers for your sweetie. Quote Judy, mom to Darth Vader, Bandita, And Angel Forever in our hearts, DeeYoGee, Dani, Emmy, Andy, Heart, Saint, Valentino, Arrow, Gee, Bebe, Jilly Bean, Bullitt, Pistol, Junior, Sammie, Joey, Gizmo, Do Bee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batmom Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 What a rotten blow for you and your girlie. Praying it isn't osteosarcoma but something that can be remedied. And sending lots of hugs. Quote Star aka Starz Ovation (Ronco x Oneco Maggie*, litter #48538), Coco aka Low Key (Kiowa Mon Manny x Party Hardy, litter # 59881), and mom in IllinoisWe miss Reko Batman (Trouper Zeke x Marque Louisiana), 11/15/95-6/29/06, Rocco the thistledown whippet, 04/29/93-10/14/08, Reko Zema (Mo Kick x Reko Princess), 8/16/98-4/18/10, the most beautiful girl in the whole USA, my good egg Joseph aka Won by a Nose (Oneco Cufflink x Buy Back), 09/22/2003-03/01/2013, and our gentle sweet Gidget (Digitizer, Dodgem by Design x Sobe Mulberry), 1/29/2006-11/22/2014, gone much too soon. Never forgetting CJC's Buckshot, 1/2/07-10/25/10. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowjay Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 Best wishes for little Munchie and hoping it isn't osteo. Quote Cody: (11/19/2000 - 1/7/2013): [CollateralDamage #92569] Cody's DogsterPretty: (11/1/1994 - 1/27/2007): [Bee's Prettyside #43811] Pretty's DogsterPinky: (4/25/2003 - 3/17/2014): [Wagtail Resolve #19753]Click here to learn how to find your hounds racing name, pedigree and racing history! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newgreymom Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 I'm sorry. We will pray that it's not osteo... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4My2Greys Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 Oh no what a shock. I hope that they are mistaken and it's not osteo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreyPoopon Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 I'm sorry. I hope it isn't OS. Just by-the-by, Betsy has an area of bone loss in one shoulder/forearm that did not progress significantly over the course of a couple of months. It was found well over a year ago and she has been about the same since. Quote Standard Poodle Daisy (12/13) Missing Cora (RL Nevada 5/99-10/09), Piper (Cee Bar Easy 2/99-1/10), Tally (Thunder La La 9/99-3/10), Edie (Daring Reva 9/99-10/12), Dixie (Kiowa Secret Sue 11/01-1/13), Jessie (P's Real Time 11/98-3/13), token boy Graham (Zydeco Dancer 9/00-5/13), Cal (Back Already 12/99-11/13), Betsy (Back Kick Beth 11/98-12/13), Standard Poodles Minnie (1/99-1/14) + Perry (9/98-2/14), Annie (Do Marcia 9/03-10/14), Pink (Miss Pinky Baker 1/02-6/15), Poppy (Cmon Err Not 8/05-1/16), Kat (Jax Candy 5/05-5/17), Ivy (Jax Isis 10/07-7/21), Hildy (Braska Hildy 7/10-12/22), Opal (Jax Opal 7/08-4/23). Toodles (BL Toodles 7/09-4/24) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sabrina Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 Hope it isnt & Munchie can have her stem cell therapy Quote Caroline, Mom to Daphne (49B-50215) and Penny (41D-55779)Remembering Bridge Angels Margo and Sabrina Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaisyDoodle Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 I'm so sorry. I love Dr. Jim; and, it's good to know that he's modest enough to send out for a second opinion without any ego issues. While you're waiting for the next set of films, you might consider sending everything you've got to Dr. Couto. Quote DonnaMolly the Border Collie & Poquita the American-born Podenga Bridge Babies: Daisy (Positive Delta) 8/7/2000 - 4/6/2115, Agnes--angel Sage's baby (Regall Rosario) 11/12/01 - 12/18/13, Lucky the mix (Found, w 10 puppies 8/96-Bridge 7/28/11, app. age 16) & CoCo (Cosmo Comet) 12/28/89-5/4/04 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robinw Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 I so hope that's it's not osteo Quote Xavi the galgo and Peter the cat. Missing Iker the galgo ?-Feb.9/19, Treasure (USS Treasure) April 12/01-May 6/13, Phoenix (Hallo Top Son) Dec.14/99-June 4/11 and Loca (Reko Swahili) Oct.9/95 - June 1/09, Allen the boss cat, died late November, 2021, age 19. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Remolacha Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeylasMom Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 Four weeks for more xrays. As a vet tech, I know that in 4 weeks if it is osteo we should be seeing a profound change. I'm so sorry that you're potentially facing this dx. I just wanted to add that I do not believe this is true, especially if you've caught it at an early phase. I truly believe based on my experience and that of many others on GT since that the rapid progression of the disease and deterioration on X-ray is only seen at the end stage of the disease. Neyla's X-rays did not show progression for 5+ months, so much so that my oncologist kept suggesting she didn't have osteo. Until of course it was obvious that she did. So I second getting the additional input from OSU. I read in another thread that they are very short staffed and there is a wait time of several weeks until Dr. C returns, but since you are waiting 4 wks anyway that shouldn't be a problem. Quote Jen, CPDT-KA with Zuri, lab in a greyhound suit, Violet, formerly known as Faith, Skye, the permanent puppy, Cisco, resident cat, and my baby girl Neyla, forever in my heart "The great thing about science is that you're free to disagree with it, but you'll be wrong." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest LittleGreys Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 I'm so sorry that you're potentially facing this dx. I just wanted to add that I do not believe this is true, especially if you've caught it at an early phase. I truly believe based on my experience and that of many others on GT since that the rapid progression of the disease and deterioration on X-ray is only seen at the end stage of the disease. Neyla's X-rays did not show progression for 5+ months, so much so that my oncologist kept suggesting she didn't have osteo. Until of course it was obvious that she did. So I second getting the additional input from OSU. I read in another thread that they are very short staffed and there is a wait time of several weeks until Dr. C returns, but since you are waiting 4 wks anyway that shouldn't be a problem. Thank you! This was exactly the information I was looking for. As a tech, you are correct, I have only seen the end stage of the disease. I asked if it truly was osteo, how long might we be looking, but of course I got the answer of there is no way of knowing. Since I have only seen the end stages, I am wondering how long dogs can have the disease until the end stages when it is easily diagnosed? Could it be a period of months? So you have answered that question for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeylasMom Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 I'm so sorry that you're potentially facing this dx. I just wanted to add that I do not believe this is true, especially if you've caught it at an early phase. I truly believe based on my experience and that of many others on GT since that the rapid progression of the disease and deterioration on X-ray is only seen at the end stage of the disease. Neyla's X-rays did not show progression for 5+ months, so much so that my oncologist kept suggesting she didn't have osteo. Until of course it was obvious that she did. So I second getting the additional input from OSU. I read in another thread that they are very short staffed and there is a wait time of several weeks until Dr. C returns, but since you are waiting 4 wks anyway that shouldn't be a problem. Thank you! This was exactly the information I was looking for. As a tech, you are correct, I have only seen the end stage of the disease. I asked if it truly was osteo, how long might we be looking, but of course I got the answer of there is no way of knowing. Since I have only seen the end stages, I am wondering how long dogs can have the disease until the end stages when it is easily diagnosed? Could it be a period of months? So you have answered that question for me. Yep, there are dogs in the osteo thread who have been receiving palliative care only that were diagnosed 9+ months ago. I want to say that FedEx may have even hit or be very close to the 1 yr mark. I think the newer pain mgt options (IV pamidronate and/or 2-day radiation treatments) have a lot to do with it, but early detection is probably also a big part of it. My theory is that when you see visible swelling you are typically in the later stages. Again, all theory from a layperson. Quote Jen, CPDT-KA with Zuri, lab in a greyhound suit, Violet, formerly known as Faith, Skye, the permanent puppy, Cisco, resident cat, and my baby girl Neyla, forever in my heart "The great thing about science is that you're free to disagree with it, but you'll be wrong." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbhounds Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 Do you think your vet (or Dr R) could perform a FNA of the suspicious area? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sweetdogs Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 Since she has polyarthritis, could this be erosion from that rather than osteo? I know Dr. R knows his stuff but was just wondering. My very best wishes for your Munchie. Quote Deirdre with Conor (Daring Pocobueno), Keeva (Kiowa Mimi Mona), & kittehs Gemma & robthomas. Our beloved angels Faolin & Liath, & kittehs Mona & Caesar. Remembering Bobby, Doc McCoy, & Chip McGrath. "He feeds you, pets you, adores you, collects your poop in a bag. There's only one explanation: you are a hairy little god." Nick Galifinakis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silverfish Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 (edited) Since you are a vet tech (and also since I am English) I almost hesitate to offer an opinion, but I assume you've ruled out alternatives like Valley Fever? From what I've read it can mimic osteosarcoma and with the other symptoms you're seeing I'd want to make sure it was ruled out properly. There is a wonderful collection of radiographs here, showing differential diagnoses for a ton of 'bone tumours' which turned out not to be tumours at all. You'll need to search for it, because this section isn't well defined, but it's about halfway down, under 'Primary bone tumours of the axial skeleton'. Edited February 25, 2012 by silverfish Quote The plural of anecdote is not dataBrambleberry Greyhounds My Etsy Shop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greyhead Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 Since she has polyarthritis, could this be erosion from that rather than osteo? I know Dr. R knows his stuff but was just wondering. My very best wishes for your Munchie. I was wondering that too, and it sure would be good if that was it! Quote Mary with Jumper Jack (2/17/11) and angels Shane (PA's Busta Rime, 12/10/02 - 10/14/16) and Spencer (Dutch Laser, 11/25/00 - 3/29/13). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
o_rooly Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 No advice, but sending tons of white light for you and Munchie. Quote every day a tiny adventure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VinnieAndRexsMom Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 Sending hugs for you and Munchie Quote Tonya, mom to May, and my angels Vinnie, Rex, Red, Chase, and Jake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joejoesmom Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 I just wanted to post the link to submit a consult request to OSU: https://greyhound.osu.edu/consultationservice/ They are very short staffed right now, but I would expect someone to get back with you before Dr. Couto returns from Spain on March 13th. I know with everything else going on, Munchie may not be a candidate for amputation. If this is a possibility though, you shouldn't wait a month to get confirmation. Dr. Couto and team consult on / see 2500 greyhounds a year and OSU does more than one greyhound amputation due to osteo per week. If anyone can make a determination based on your x-rays, they can. Dr. Couto is currently at the Scooby Medina Galgo rescue with a bunch of students. He does have email/internet there but I don't know how much time he has to look at x-rays. OSU has at least 3 oncology faculty members and about 5-6 oncology residents. They are not paid for by the greyhound health and wellness program (GHWP), but perhaps arrangements have been made to have them evaluate urgent GHWP consult requests while the GHWP is so short staffed. Jane Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest LittleGreys Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 I just wanted to post the link to submit a consult request to OSU: https://greyhound.osu.edu/consultationservice/ They are very short staffed right now, but I would expect someone to get back with you before Dr. Couto returns from Spain on March 13th. I know with everything else going on, Munchie may not be a candidate for amputation. If this is a possibility though, you shouldn't wait a month to get confirmation. Dr. Couto and team consult on / see 2500 greyhounds a year and OSU does more than one greyhound amputation due to osteo per week. If anyone can make a determination based on your x-rays, they can. Dr. Couto is currently at the Scooby Medina Galgo rescue with a bunch of students. He does have email/internet there but I don't know how much time he has to look at x-rays. OSU has at least 3 oncology faculty members and about 5-6 oncology residents. They are not paid for by the greyhound health and wellness program (GHWP), but perhaps arrangements have been made to have them evaluate urgent GHWP consult requests while the GHWP is so short staffed. Jane Thank you. I think I will submit a request just so I know. She is not a candidate for amputation, so we will continue pallative care. She has already been on tramadol and gabapentin long term for her EPG. I am going to check with my vets to see if we can add anything else, she is on pred, so I am sure NSAIDS are not an option, but it is worth exploring the option. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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