Another harness thread: advice welcomed for helping control a large, strong reactive male dog

[steerpike]

We are 5 months into adopting a retired racer (UK).  While he's made great progress in most areas, he remains wildy reactive to other dogs - and I mean ALL dogs regardless of size.   He is at the larger end of the scale - around 38kg and with strong muscle definition.  

When we adopted, we were given a leather collar and lead.  It soon became apparent that whilst this was great for moving his head away from any potential triggers, it was also half throttling him and we felt it wasn't a good control mechanism.  We moved onto a generic but strong harness.  The harness has 2 points - one for the back and one at the front but we've only ever used the back attachment with a strong, carabiner type clip and a rope lead.  This works in the main but it does enable him to pivot and bolt towards other dogs - this can be dangerous for us let alone the other dog as he's so strong and has pulled us over before (I'm 6ft and 12 stone) when he acts without warning and catches us off balance.  The other downside to this harness is that it covers most of his chest and is causing fur to rub off and skin irritation. 

I'm looking for to find the holy grail of leads/harnesses which ideally fits 3 criteria:
 - removes risk of him slipping his lead completely (some kind of sure fire bodily attachment to us)
 - allows us to manoeuvre his head AND his shoulders so he cannot swivel/pivot and face the trigger - a Halti perhaps or harness with 2 leads and connection points.
 - less important but good for his fur - one that doesn't cover his entire chest area to minimise the rubbing and irritation

We cannot allow him to continue to present a risk to pulling us over nor being able to get to other dogs while we work on his socialisation. 

I realise this kind of question has been asked a hundred times, but I wonder if there are any good suggestions for as foolproof a system as possible for our scenario.  We are UK based so would need to be able to source a product here. 

TIA

[MerseyGrey]

Hi Steerpike, have a look at the Ruffwear Flagline harness, large size. It has a sturdy metal clip which sits a bit further down the back than the shoulders, but has a second webbing hook (we have not used this to clip a lead to, I think more people clip to the harness and then to the collar for extra security). It offers very good control in my opinion, and in addition it has a handle on the back. We use one for Buddy who is around 37kg. It does have a chest panel but we haven’t noticed any rubbing coming from its use. Ruffwear do other designs too, like the Webmaster which you might prefer (chest strap vs chest panel). The lead we use with it is a Halti. It’s around 7ft long with a few D-rings on it, so if we wanted to we could clip it to the harness and wear it at the human end like a belt.

https://www.instagram.com/p/CUIXdtBKUjS/?utm_medium=copy_link  You can see how the dog will move on this video and get a good view of the harness

https://www.instagram.com/p/CO8Ir2uhYS2/?utm_medium=copy_link  If you scroll through to picture 4/5, this dog wears the lead attached to the harness and her collar.

Stupid question possibly, but have you had any success with training your dog to watch you to help with reactivity?

[greysmom]

Ruffwear has several different harness styles and all of them are excellent.  They are sturdy and well made, and fit the sighthound body.  The Webmaster also works well as a three-point spook harness as it's more difficult for dogs to escape from when properly adjusted.

This book/ebook will also be of interest to you.

Feisty Fido:  Help for the Leash Reactive Dog by Patricia McConnell

[Remolacha]

My Fletcher was pretty big, around 90 lbs (40 kg) and very leash reactive to other dogs, so I understand what you are dealing with. He pulled me off my feet many times, but luckily never broke anything. As you have discovered , the harness gives much better control than a collar and the Ruffwear ones mention above are good, but no harness is going to help you control his head. A wide (2") cloth collar will help you control his head/neck with much less chance of injuring his neck or spine. A leash attached to the collar and another leash attached to the harness will give you the most control. If you haven't already, trying the "look at me" training is worth a try, it can be very effective. Unfortunately, it didn't work for Fletcher, so it may not help your boy, but worth a try. The only other thing I can add is I learned to be hyper vigilant on our walks looking for other dogs. If I spotted the other dog before he did I had much better control. The times I got pulled off my feet and he almost got to the other dog is when I didn't see them coming. Good luck!

[BatterseaBrindl]

I may get some flack,  but for our very high prey Galgo I use a Halti….many do not approve of these, but he understands exactly how it works and it is there as emergency backup.  I use a second leash attached to his harness and it is clipped to my cross-body dog walking belt. 

I am 5’ / 55kg senior and can walk 3 Hounds - total weight 100kg … attached to the cross body belt with no problems.

And yes…teach your dog to understand and respond to the ‘Watch Me!’  command. 

[JenniferS]

My first greyhound was very reactive. I had some success with the the Gentle Leader attached to his martingale with a carabiner.

[palmettobug]

Roman is an enourmous boy, he has the Ruffwear harness as well. He wants to meet ALL dogs, people, cats, critters (and maybe eat them) and it works well for us.

[BandM]

Another Ruffwear user here. Pricey, but I'm glad of the investment, I trust we'll get some years out of it too.

Bennie is a very nervous dog and had panicked and escaped from his previous harness multiple times, but the way the Ruffwear sits around his chest and front legs, I like to think it will now be impossible. There is the option to run two leads, but I tend to just grab the loop handle on his back if I need to. If ever I anticipate a confrontation with another dog, I've found there is a lot less drama and more control if I stop aside and take a firm grip of his harness. He hasn't show any signs of irritation with it, again previous harness would often rub his thigh which would get quite red.

I took a punt on Ruffwear, and it paid off, but I think harnesses is trial and error. Where in the UK are you based, is there a greyhound club near you, or a pet shop where he can try some on? Our other grey is content with a £20 RAC harness, never had any issues so I bought two, but I no longer trust using one on Bennie.

 

[HeyRunDog]

I think as has already been mentioned a combination of a harness and a collar is the best solution. A harness as a backup to stop him escaping and the collar to communicate with him.

If you want to meet other experienced owners face to face and see what they have to suggest as well as socialising him have a look for greyhound walks in your area. Most of The Greyhound Trust branches have a free monthly walk.

[steerpike]

Thanks all for the excellent advice as per usual. 

@MerseyGrey  - I've decided to go with a Ruffwear.  I didn't mention that he also has a martingale collar so intend to get a double ended lead I think, or two separate leads, and attach one to his head and one to collar. As you say, it looks like there's an option for a panel free front too which will help with his sensitive skin. 

We haven't specifically used 'Watch me' but have done quite a bit of recall training on a 10m long lead and he's improved hugely with this.   Currently, when we approach a dog that's within his 'bubble', I will move him as far away as possible and will go down to his level and calm him.  I then reward directly afterwards with a treat if no reactivity so there's a strong connection.  If he does react - no punishment, just no reward.  

@greysmom - thank you - I have the book on order - it looks like it will be very beneficial.

@Remolacha- thanks, appreciate the advice and we're going to proceed as mentioned with ruffwear harness and another lead to his martingale

Thank you also @BatterseaBrindl , @JenniferS, @palmettobug, @BandM - all much appreciated opinions and good advice.

@HeyRunDog - good idea, we are aware of a Greyhound Walk local to us - we did have one failed attempt to meet up with them before (wrong park!), but in the process we met up with another Greyhound and our dog got on great with him so it suggests he's not a lost cause!  I do think it may be sensory overload to take him on a walk with 20+ others right now but we might build up to this. 

He has definitely got worse in terms of reactivity so I think there's an element of becoming familiar with his surroundings and maybe territorial.  It's stark how non-reactive he was when we first brought him home.   TBH I think he was just totally confused and overloaded in the beginning but for the first month at least, we could always walk past other dogs without a reaction.

[mansbestfriend]

Hi. I'd also seek professional hands-on help from a behaviourist/trainer (if possible), who only uses Positive Reinforcement meathods - to assess your and your dog's situation and offer management and training ideas.  

Patricia McConnell has written some excellent books about dogs, how to understand them, and how to help dogs with behavioral issues.  Cheers. 

[Remolacha]

I think you are on the right track to managing this. He may get less reactive over time, but many don’t. As long as you have your protocols in place (doesn’t that sound fancy! ) everything should be fine. Fletcher got along with most greyhounds, over the years he met two that he just didn’t like  personality clash, I guess. People will tell you that greyhounds aren’t territorial but Fletcher certainly was, territorial and very protective. Good luck, I can guarantee life with your boy will never be boring!

[cleptogrey]

Please interview the trainers that you consider working with. Some are better at dealing with reactive dogs than others.  

It will be nearly impossible to control 2 leashes and work with food for positive reinforcement or distraction. So, I would consider a martinagle and head harness/halti lead, use the short double clip leash to connect the two. That will be in addition to your regular leash attached to the halti. That is just for halti failure. 

Harnesses are excellent for geriatic dogs who need mobility assistance. Personally I feel putting a harness on a reactive dog is asking the owner for brute strength to move it. 

[Sniffy]

I don't believe my grey's harness meets your 2nd criterion, but the proprietress of a small Etsy business we got Stanley's harness from makes her harnesses by hand, to order--and has many different styles available.  Delivery of our order took a while to reach us (in the USA), but as she operates out of Poland it might reach the UK much faster.

We've been fortunate that Stanley has not shown abnormal aggression towards other dogs, so we are a different situation than you. However he does play hard and pulls when he sees a cat. Maybe it's worth a look for you!  Best of luck. 

www.etsy.com/shop/SowinkaDesign

Sowinka Design Sighthound Harnesses from Poland

 

[Bee]

@steerpikejust to say that we are working through the same issues. Watch me (basically lots of treats every time he sees a dog) has been the absolute best tool for us- luckily he is very food oriented!! When we take Rook to a Sighthound Sundays walk he is absolutely brilliant with all other greys (we just keep clear of whippets in the group)- and actually being around other greys makes him far less reactive to other passing dogs. Good luck and let us know how it goes.

[steerpike]

On 2/15/2022 at 3:43 PM, Bee said:

@steerpikejust to say that we are working through the same issues. Watch me (basically lots of treats every time he sees a dog) has been the absolute best tool for us- luckily he is very food oriented!! When we take Rook to a Sighthound Sundays walk he is absolutely brilliant with all other greys (we just keep clear of whippets in the group)- and actually being around other greys makes him far less reactive to other passing dogs. Good luck and let us know how it goes.

Thanks for all the responses - apologies I've been late to respond. Very useful and appreciated. 

@Bee good to hear! We are making good progress too with positive reinforcement.  I will look out for your posts.

[steerpike]

by way of a general update, we've found an excellent trainer locally and are now using a waist, hands free harness with a strong rope and carabiner style lead.  In addition, we have a lead to his martingale collar and this is the main means of controlling his tendencies.  When he reacts badly, he is swiftly distracted so he's facing away from the 'threat'.  No harsh punishment but he's gently admonished for bad behaviour and we go overboard with affection and treats when he passes another dog without bad reactivity

[macoduck]

Great update, Steerpike! 

[Bee]

Well done! 👏