My sweet, never mis-behaved Grey finally bit me, seeking advice..

[Murray]

I adopted (retired racing) the Grey in April this year so I've had him 10 months, he will be 3 in January.  His behavior has been perfect, literally done nothing wrong, almost never barks,.  Furthermore, he loves everyone, people & dogs.  He lets you hug him, in fact he insists on it. I'm home 90% of the time, It truly has been an amazing experience, till last night.

I fell asleep on the sofa and woke up in the middle of the night.  I hugged him as I always do, he was on his bean bag,  i was on my way to my bedroom upstairs.  He will not go up the stairs so he sleeps on his bean bag downstairs.  Sometimes I pick him up and carry him upstairs where he loves to jump on my bed.  Last night, while he was lying on his bean bag and I was hugging him as normal, I did then try to pick him up by putting both my arms under his mid section.  He barked and snapped at my face, it wasn't a full bite, rather his mouth was open and the outside of his teeth hit my cheek.  There was blood, but its not serious and I predict it will heal 100%.

This has now broken the amazing trust agreement we had.  I do realize every animal will defend itself when provoked, I also recall the phrase "let sleeping dogs lie, it was in the middle of the night, I was not provoking him, simply loving on him, but this is what happened.  I do realize he is a big strong dog, but he is such an amazing sweetheart, perhaps this is a good lesson for me, I certainly will not attempt to pick him up again.

I locked him in the bathroom for a few hours, I just walked him and put him back in the bathroom, I'll probably let him out in an hour.  This is my first dog so I'm open to guidance in this regard.  I live alone and truly love this guy, this is very upsetting.

 

 

 

 

[Remolacha]

Please don’t keep him locked up, he has no idea why you are upset or that he has done anything wrong. I am sure you just startled him and he snapped at you. He didn’t mean to connect and that doesn’t really count as a bite. As a first time dog owner you probably don’t know a lot about dog behavior (I know I didn’t!). I think not picking him up again is a good idea, otherwise, try to just let everything go back to normal. 

[Time4ANap]

Assuming your dog was a racer, he has had his own protected "safe space" since he was 6 months old.  The crate or house he slept in while training, and then the crate in the racing kennel were protected spaces where no one ever touched him while he was sleeping. Ever.  He is not used to being touched in his sleep no matter how many times he has let you pick him up.  

From your description, the assumption I have to make is that he was not fully awake, and when you tried to pick him up he was startled and reacted. It does sound more like a contact made during startle than a full on bite. 

There are a couple of lessons here - now that you know your hound can be prone to being startled, you don't allow anyone including yourself to make contact or pet him on his bed. We've had several dogs who slept with their eyes open, so eyes being open don't mean that the dog is awake. Second, only pet him when he's standing up.

If he wants pets, let him come to you for them instead of you reaching down to pet him. It's a hard habit to break but is way safer than risking another startle/bite. 

Our first hound was the sweetest boy you ever met, but over the 10 years he was with us he bit 3 people including me. Each time he bit, the human did something that they knew not to do, and he startled. I cannot blame him because we knew that he startled in his sleep and the action of the human involved was usually an innocent motion or pet that was just too close to do while he was sleeping.  In one of the casses, he was sound asleep with his eyes wide open and the person who reached down to pet him thought he was awake. He wasn't.

 We also got in the habit of letting him know anytime that we were approaching his bed. Saying something as simple s "hey buddy' to let him know that we were closer than usual was enough to make him aware of our presence. 

You need to let him out of the bathroom and there is no need to put him in there after an incident like this.  He has forgotten what happened almost as fast as it happened. Greyhounds don't respond well to being locked away in rooms where they can't see their people. He has no idea why he's in there at this point. He's not going to attack anyone and didn't attack you.  He simply startled in response to an action that you did. Even though you've done it many times, this time he wasn't truly awake and his startle response kicked in. 

I will also tell you that our dog who bit multiple people was the sweetest boy you ever met and was loved by everyone he met, including the Animal Control Warden who had to come out in response to one of the bites when a doctor filed the report for the bite treatment because the person's skin was broken. He played with the Warden and even she knew right away that the bite was an accident. We simply had to learn the few simple things that cuased him to startle and not do those things. I miss that boy every day and would gladly take another 10 years with him without any fear if I could bring him back. 

You have many years left with a hound who sounds like a great pet. Avoiding the things that make him startle, and enforcing those same rules for all visitors or others in the house will give you lots of awesome years together. 

Edited December 4, 2021 by Time4ANap
typos

[Houndtime]

Please don't lock him in the bathroom.  Dogs do not like to be behind closed door.  He could damage something in an effort to get out and you will be angry again.  Our Fuzzy bit me.  He was stuck under the bed and I tried to pull him out.  He, also, bit me on the face.  I understand why, and he never did it again.  Hopefully, that will be your case as well.

 

[Murray]

Thank you indeed.  Yes, I did hear that they can sleep with eyes open, and I did pet him a few times before I tried to lift him, I guess its possible the petting didn't awake him and I do agree it was a startle reaction, not a bite .  You advice is much appreciated, it will be hard to not pet and hug him on his bean bag, frankly, he snoozes almost all of the day on the same bean bag he sleeps on and during the day he rolls onto his back, belly up, and wants his belly rubbed, he simply loves it.  I think they call it "roaching", should I stop petting him in this way ?

[Apollo_the_Grey]

New to Greys, but not new to dog biting issues.

2 things I can say about your post:  You were in his safe space and you hugged him.  Hugging is a primate thing.  Dogs don't typically hug, but they do mount as dominance displays.  So hugging can seem threatening and dominating to a dog, no matter how sweet.  Even moreso with a dog who may just be waking up, or in deep sleep.  From what you described, it seems as if your boy air snapped, not bit.  You just didn't have the reflexed that another dog would have had to jump out of the way.  

The second could be an injury or health issue:  if you touched him in a place which was sore, or injured, or caused pain he could have just reacted.

 

Either way, the lesson to take from this isn't "why did he bite me?" but rather "what did I do to cause this response, and how can I prevent this type of response in the future?"   So far I've read some good responses.

 

[greysmom]

Why did you lock him in the bathroom???  He won't learn anything from that, and it won't solve any question you've posed.

Dogs are living being, not stuffed animals.  They have personalities, and likes and dislikes, and sometimes they change their minds about things.  He was sleeping soundly, you woke him up by hugging - which he's probably not that comfortable with anyway - and then proceeded to try and haul him out of bed - which he probably didn't want to do either.  And instead of reading his less drastic cues and uncomfortableness, you persisted, so he had to try something more drastic you would listen to.

Lesson learned.  Hopefully.

And quit locking him in the bathroom.

[Time4ANap]

38 minutes ago, Murray said:

Thank you indeed.  Yes, I did hear that they can sleep with eyes open, and I did pet him a few times before I tried to lift him, I guess its possible the petting didn't awake him and I do agree it was a startle reaction, not a bite .  You advice is much appreciated, it will be hard to not pet and hug him on his bean bag, frankly, he snoozes almost all of the day on the same bean bag he sleeps on and during the day he rolls onto his back, belly up, and wants his belly rubbed, he simply loves it.  I think they call it "roaching", should I stop petting him in this way ?

There's a big difference in being roached and wanting a belly rub. The two are not the same.  Several of our dogs sleep soundly while roached. They do not want nor are they asking for a belly rub at that time. One of our current dogs, Diva, will ask for a belly rub when she's on her bed by rolling over and giving me the "pet me" sign moving her paw back and forth.  

Basically, leave the dog alone while roached on a bed unless you invited by the dog to do a belly rub.  If you aren't sure - don't reach down there. I would say that 99% of the time we are already in a play session or are petting before the belly rub request. 

[BatterseaBrindl]

You have been given excellent advice.  Your dog reacted as any dog would when startled out of a sound sleep.

Jeepers… I would have snapped at you too, given those circumstances. 

[MerseyGrey]

Whether he has sleep startle or not, whether he was awake as you thought or not, you could have hurt him when you picked him up which would cause him to snap. If it were me, I would think this was my fault and wouldn’t do it again. My dog will snap at me if I lean over him when he’s fuzzy from sleep, so it’s something I avoid doing. If I do it and he snaps, it’s my fault.

I also whole-heartedly agree that there is no value in locking him another room. I hope at least there was a bed in there for him to lie on.

In my naivety I also interpreted my dog’s roaching as an invitation to rub his belly. The result is that he doesn’t roach as much any more, which is something I regret, mainly because it makes me wonder if he doesn’t feel secure/safe enough to do it, but also because the sight of him roaching made me so happy. So yes, let sleeping dogs lie! It’s a saying for a reason!

[HeyRunDog]

You've had a lot of advice on not locking him in the bathroom so I'm not going to add to it although I don't think it was just to punish him. I think you were surprised and angry at yourself and needed to give yourself some space to come to terms what had happened and to cool off. The equivalent of counting 10 although in your case I think you continued to count beyond that. Dogs live in the moment so he'll have forgotten what happened and why very quickly unless it happens repeatedly. You've been told off by your hound and learnt your lesson but remember he still thinks you are the best thing since sliced bread.

When you want to pet and hug him make sure he's awake by calling his name a couple of times and give him a chance to be aware of you first.

When I pick Grace up I get her to stand up first so I don't twist her back. I put one arm around and under her bum and the other under her chest going between her front legs. She must be comfortable like that because her teeth start to chatter in enjoyment.

 

[Murray]

 I agree with all the guidance and thank you all.  I was aware of "let sleeping dogs lie", what I learned is that they can be asleep with his eyes open, I thought I had already woken him.  I will take more care in this regard.  About Roaching, yes, he moves his paws a lot and he simply loves a belly rub, in fact, when I stop he roaches more to get me to continue.  Again, I'll be more careful.

[LBass]

You've had lots of good advice so won't repeat all that.  I know that being snapped at by your loved and loving hound was a shock and I bet it scared the dickens out of you!   Remember that at 10 months into your relationship you are both still learning about each other.  Your hound too is likely still getting used to home life, retirement, and you.  As a new dog owner, this is all a brand new experience for you as well--you 2 are learning and growing together.  

The thing I'll expand on is that every individual dog is different in terms of personality, preferences, limits, etc.  Each new dog in your life will be an entirely new relationship.  One of the challenges with each new dog is to make the effort to learn who that specific dog is and then to meet them happily as who they are.  You, as the human part of the equation, will have to make at least as many adaptations and do as much learning as your dog will. 

My first Greyhound, Piper, was as loving, gentle, and easy as any dog could be.  I learned that he loved to be covered with a blanket when sleeping--he got cold.  He LOVED wearing his jammies and coats and vests and...you get it.  I've had 4 other Greyhounds and there's not been a "blankie boy" among them.  So I gave up buying blankets, coats, and jammies.  I give each new hound a try in Piper's favorite jammies and determine whether they like being covered or not.  Then I act on their preference. Confirmed nudists, every single one.

Piper would let me do anything for him.  I mean, he'd let me help.  He fell once coming down the deck steps and ended up sort of sitting with his behind in a basket.  He didn't flounder or panic or struggle.  He waited for me to lift him up and get him on his feet. When he struggled with rear end weakness due to GME, he let me help him get up, lift him, steady him with a sling when he walked and pottied.  Hound #2 also let me help him in similar circumstances, though the needing of help made him anxious in a way Piper never was.  Hound #3, MoMo, HATED being helped in those ways.  No growing, but the first time I tried to help her down the stairs with a sling under her tuck, she whipped her head around, glared at me, and then turned around and demanded to go back in the house.   So, no helping hand for MoMo--lesson learned.

I could yammer on, but you get the drift.  You two are still getting to know each other.  There will be the occasional misstep.  Learn the lessons, then forgive and move on the the next lesson in this wonderful, loving relationship. 

[2greyhoundMINI]

Late to the party here... and lots of good advice.

I will add my 2 girls are the sweetest hounds ever. Love everyone!

HOWEVER - Carmen does NOT like you trying to pick her up once she is laying down. And Amelia sometimes does not want to be bothered once she's on her bed... no kisses, etc.

We have both learned this by a growl and/or a snap. Now we know and respect these boundaries. 

Sounds like your boy is good on his bean bag and let him be. 

Enjoy all your time with him! He sounds lovely!
 

[Moo]

Nothing more to add as it's already been said, but just wanted to say that I totally understand the fright and perturbed feeling you get when your own dog turns against you, as coming from a creature you love unconditionally (and loved back by) makes you almost feel betrayed. 

The key thing to always remember is to not react like a human, react like a dog. A human child understands time out, dogs don't. Biting and barking are more often than not them saying "I DO NOT like this and I'm trying to tell you in the one way I know will get the message across" rather than "I hate you and I want to hurt you on purpose", which is often how we interpret it emotionally. The last few times my dog has growled at me I knew logically what he was telling me, but emotionally it still hurt me because it's hard to disassociate the message from the delivery. I'm hoping I get used to it too! It's amazing seeing my aunt react to when he growls, as from what she's told me she grew up with some pretty viscous dogs (one story in particular of a border collie that would nip everyone to round them up or snitch and snarl when told it was getting a bath ) so isn't scared of them at all, whereas I'm much more wary. 

[JenniferS]

There is a lot of good advice here. I love what you said, "Time4ANap". We just adopted our 6th greyhound and he is a total sweetheart & lovebug - likes hugs, kisses & cuddling. However, we have had a couple of growls/snaps recently and we have had to remind ourselves everything is still new to him, he is not the same as our previous dogs, and we also should leave him alone in his crate (he goes in there on his own while we are home). These are greyt reminders for everyone, whether your on your fist greyhound or your sixth (or 20th - lol!).