Help! Both My Dogs Distressed And Not Eating

[GreysInSA]

Hi all. I’ve been an off and on long time lurker here. Got my first grey back in 1997 and am on my 4^th (Lizzie, F, 10) and 5^th (Rhone, M, 8) now. I have something weird going on with my greys that I hope somebody might have some words of wisdom for.

 

Long story with a lot of detail so bear with me here.

 

I feed Kirkland Mature (blue bag). Some in the morning and some at night. At night I usually mix in a little can food just for variety. The can food varies but the dry food and treats have been the same for years. 2.5 weeks ago (Friday March 16) Lizzie didn’t eat her dinner. She will sometimes skip breakfast but rarely dinner. She didn’t eat at all from her bowl all weekend. Had little interest in the Kirkland dog biscuits but did eat the chicken jerky from Costco. When she stood she panted and acted distressed and out of sorts. Monday (March 19) morning I took her to my regular vet (long time family vet and grey savy; used to vet one of the local greyhound agency’s dogs).

 

She had a fever (104.something) and vet thought her belly seemed warm. Abdominal and chest xrays were negative. Vet said her blood work indicated liver issues and wondered if she might have ingested a toxin. I haven’t fertilized this year and don’t pesticide my yard or house other than to spot treat for ants but haven’t done that in many months. Nothing has really changed in the house so don’t know where she might have gotten into something. No vomiting. Stools are semi-solid although a weird orange color. Going down the steps on the way to the vet her rear end was wobbly but I attributed that to minimal food for 3+ days.

 

Lab tests that were out of norm (if actual numbers are helpful I have those):

Little low: WBC

low: PLT, calcium

little high: HCT, MCH, creatine

high: RDW%, HGB, AST (GOT), Total Bilirubin, Potassium

 

Vet put her on Amoxicillin in case she had an abdominal infection and Denamarin for the liver. Also gave us Previcox to ease her distress which seemed to help. While she is eating some it is only a little and nothing near normal.

 

Wednesday (March 21) Rhone stopped eating. And this is a dog who never passes up any meal, food, or treat. He will eat anything and everything. He didn’t eat Thursday either and now he has the same distressed panting as Lizzie did. Stools also a strange orange color. Hind leg is sometimes shaky when standing. Call the vet the next day. Vet says try him on the Previcox and see if it helps. It did calm him some and he ate a little better but often vomited it back up. The following Wednesday (March 28) I call the vet and make an appointment as he is just not doing any better. Go in Thursday. His temp is normal but his labs are worse than Lizzie’s. Xrays negative.

Very low: PLT, total protein, albumin

Little low: calcium

Little high: HGB, MCH

Fairly high: glucose

Very high: AST (GOT), GGT, Total Bilirubin

 

Vet said he was borderline needing hospitalization. Gave us Prednisone (20mg), Cerenia (for the vomiting), Tramadol (for the distress/pain), Amoxicillin, and Denamarin. Also put him on Hills Science Diet L/D (liver) food.

 

Both dogs still aren’t themselves. Not playful and little interest in toys. Still a little distressed. Eating a little but not much. Although they do eat human cold cuts enthusiastically. Any advice or help would greatly be appreciated.

 

Thanks,

Gary

 

[robinw]

Quick question, have your dogs been tested for tick borne diseases, such as babesia? That's always my first thought when results that aren't quite adding up or not responding to treatment.

[greysmom]

Since both dogs have the same symptoms, first thing I would suspect is a contaminated bag of food or any of the treats, especially if it was a newly opened bag you were feeding from. Check the treats to see if any of them are "Made in China." Second is the dog flu that's been going around. Third is something that somehow they picked up out in the yard. There was a alert in a dog group I'm in about someone somewhere in Texas (I don't remember exactly where) was deliberately poisoning dogs. Fourth is always Tick Born Diseases - lyme or others. Did your vet run any tests for those?

 

Hope you can figure out what's wrong. Good luck.

[greytpups]

First thing that came to my mind was food. Is this a new bag or can? Since they eat cold cuts without issues, the food was my first thought since the symptoms are the same. Good luck finding the cause. I really hope you gets answers quickly.

 

ETA: I see I was typing at the same time. All good suggestions

Edited April 2, 2018 by greytpups

[GreysInSA]

Quick question, have your dogs been tested for tick borne diseases, such as babesia? That's always my first thought when results that aren't quite adding up or not responding to treatment.

 

No I don't believe they have. And they're on HeartGard and NexGard But have only been in a suburban yard mostly and I haven't found any ticks. Although I will ask as i'm sure we will be back at the vet soon if things don't change.

[GreysInSA]

Since both dogs have the same symptoms, first thing I would suspect is a contaminated bag of food or any of the treats, especially if it was a newly opened bag you were feeding from. Check the treats to see if any of them are "Made in China." Second is the dog flu that's been going around. Third is something that somehow they picked up out in the yard. There was a alert in a dog group I'm in about someone somewhere in Texas (I don't remember exactly where) was deliberately poisoning dogs. Fourth is always Tick Born Diseases - lyme or others. Did your vet run any tests for those?

 

Hope you can figure out what's wrong. Good luck.

 

I will check the Kirkland food and treats to see where they are made. The chicken jerky treats say "sourced and made in USA".

I doubt it is any of those food items. The dry bad usually last 3+ weeks and we were 2+ weeks into it before they started getting sick. Been on the same box of treats and bag of chicken jerky for a while as well. The can food I supplement with changes but if it was that then multiple cans were tainted.

What are the tests run for ticks/lyme? The vet ran HemaTrue and DriChem. And I didn't even know dog flu was a thing. What are the symptoms and treatment?

[MaryJane]

Have vet run tick panel - to check for anaplasmosis, erchlichia, lyme, babesia - the low platelets and wonky chemistries are common with tick diseases although, there may not be antibodies yet if the infection is new - takes awhile to get the antibodies. I think current treatment is doxy (antibiotic) for 3 to 4 weeks.

 

Also check with neighbors - they may have put pesticides down and it also covered some part of your yard. Check your yard foot by foot - someone may have thrown something into it.

 

Throw out the dog food and treats that you have ... could be a bad bag and you don't want to take chances.

 

Check your dogs over as carefully as possible for any types of bites/rashes - your dogs may have been bit by something.

 

Also, have you used any new detergents, oils, candles, or sprays in the house. Maybe new beds for the dogs or new furniture - "new stuff" gives off vapors that is usually not harmful unless someone is more sensitive.

[XTRAWLD]

Without fail, every time I gave Denamarin when my boy was sick, he went off his food within days of starting. I had a 2 week break and he started eating again, added the Denamarin and 2 days later, nope, no interest in food. I know it sounds counter-intuitive because you need to help the liver, but it might not be helping the appetite. Sometimes we never really narrow down the cause of why they get sick, but continue a course of antibiotics that has a general overall range. While Amoxicillin is good, I'm not sure it's the right antibiotic because you don't know what you are fighting.

 

It is extremely odd that both your pups are sick. Have they been tested for Lepto? One quick lick of infected urine from a wild animal is all it takes.

[GreysInSA]

Have vet run tick panel - to check for anaplasmosis, erchlichia, lyme, babesia - the low platelets and wonky chemistries are common with tick diseases although, there may not be antibodies yet if the infection is new - takes awhile to get the antibodies. I think current treatment is doxy (antibiotic) for 3 to 4 weeks.

 

Also check with neighbors - they may have put pesticides down and it also covered some part of your yard. Check your yard foot by foot - someone may have thrown something into it.

 

Throw out the dog food and treats that you have ... could be a bad bag and you don't want to take chances.

 

Check your dogs over as carefully as possible for any types of bites/rashes - your dogs may have been bit by something.

 

Also, have you used any new detergents, oils, candles, or sprays in the house. Maybe new beds for the dogs or new furniture - "new stuff" gives off vapors that is usually not harmful unless someone is more sensitive.

 

How long is "awhile" for the antibodies to show? At this point i'm approaching 3 weeks with them sick.

Was already nearing the end of a bag of food when Lizzie got sick. Have already switched over to a new bag and Rhone is on the Science Diet so all new food. Chicken Jerky is new. Dog biscuits are old but they had been eating them for a month before they got sick. And aren't really eating them now.

Will give them another look over for bites or rashes but I haven't seen anything. How long after a tick bite until symptoms show?

I can't think of anything new in the house. They are overdue for baths and dog bed covers to be washed but i've delayed since they aren't feeling well.

Without fail, every time I gave Denamarin when my boy was sick, he went off his food within days of starting. I had a 2 week break and he started eating again, added the Denamarin and 2 days later, nope, no interest in food. I know it sounds counter-intuitive because you need to help the liver, but it might not be helping the appetite. Sometimes we never really narrow down the cause of why they get sick, but continue a course of antibiotics that has a general overall range. While Amoxicillin is good, I'm not sure it's the right antibiotic because you don't know what you are fighting.

 

It is extremely odd that both your pups are sick. Have they been tested for Lepto? One quick lick of infected urine from a wild animal is all it takes.

 

What you say about the Denamarin makes sense. They both initially started eating better after some Previcox but stopped again after the Denamarin. Should I stop for a couple days and see what happens?

I don't believe they've been tested for Lepto. But I looked up the symptoms and they don't really fit the profile. But if I take them back in for a tick panel I might as well get it done as well.

[XTRAWLD]

 

What you say about the Denamarin makes sense. They both initially started eating better after some Previcox but stopped again after the Denamarin. Should I stop for a couple days and see what happens?

I don't believe they've been tested for Lepto. But I looked up the symptoms and they don't really fit the profile. But if I take them back in for a tick panel I might as well get it done as well.

It makes sense to rule out as much as you can for sure, I was convinced mine didn't have it, and he even tested negative for it (although he did have a trace because he was vaccinated for it a year prior.) We were out of options though, so my vet sided with trying to treat and target Lepto specifically with a very general and well rounded antibiotic (2 actually) and after that things got better. Will never be certain if it was Lepto or not. If your vet is willing to work with you, I'd suggest getting them on a different antibiotic for a longer period of time. As an aside, how are their teeth? Dental health can also play havoc with not only appetite but also with liver values.

 

I think it's more important to get them to eat, than it is to get a supplement (that does about a week to start yielding results too but will be more responsive if the offending issue is gone out of the system first). I assume you've also been giving that on an empty stomach for better absorption? I'd stop the denamarin and see what happens.

 

Lastly, be sure your vet understands that blood values for greyhounds differ from normal pups. What might be considered high or low might be completely normal for your dogs.

[GreysInSA]

It makes sense to rule out as much as you can for sure, I was convinced mine didn't have it, and he even tested negative for it (although he did have a trace because he was vaccinated for it a year prior.) We were out of options though, so my vet sided with trying to treat and target Lepto specifically with a very general and well rounded antibiotic (2 actually) and after that things got better. Will never be certain if it was Lepto or not. If your vet is willing to work with you, I'd suggest getting them on a different antibiotic for a longer period of time. As an aside, how are their teeth? Dental health can also play havoc with not only appetite but also with liver values.

 

I think it's more important to get them to eat, than it is to get a supplement (that does about a week to start yielding results too but will be more responsive if the offending issue is gone out of the system first). I assume you've also been giving that on an empty stomach for better absorption? I'd stop the denamarin and see what happens.

 

Lastly, be sure your vet understands that blood values for greyhounds differ from normal pups. What might be considered high or low might be completely normal for your dogs.

 

Their teeth are good. The vet did check their mouths very carefully. Lizzie's teeth have always been good. Rhone just had a dental in December.

Yes, i try to give the denamarin on an empty stomach. Not too tough considering how little they are eating.

 

Their vets are very greyhound savy. They used to be the vet for one of the local greyhound adoption agencies and they've been greyhound owners themselves. When going over the labwork with me they'd say stuff like "yes the report lists that as out of normal range but its normal for a greyhound."

[GreysInSA]

I talked with my vet and ran by some of the things you guys have mentioned:

 

Tick Panel: They get one done as part of their annual so have both had them in the last year (Rhone in December, Lizzie last August). Vet said it may take 12-18 months for a dog to get sick from a tick bite so they may have been fine at their annual and just gotten sick now. Although unlikely since they both got sick within days of one another. Just to rule it out we are going back in tomorrow for another tick panel.

 

Denamarin: Vet agreed that it may suppress appetite and was fine with stopping it for a couple days to rule out if the appetite loss is due to whatever ails them or the Denamarin.

 

Amoxycillian vs Doxycycline: Vet agreed that doxy is a more broad spectrum antibiotic but that Amoxy is better with liver issues which is why he went with that.

 

Leptospirosis: Its part of their annual vaccination although vet did say that the vaccine isn't for all strains and, much like you can get a flu vaccine and still get the flu, they could still get it but he didn't think their lapwork and symptoms indicated it was the issue.

[mychip1]

I hate jumping on bandwagon stories from the news and social media - but in 2013, Costco did recall its Jerky treats. Wonder if something is going on with them again. So strange that they both appeared to have gotten a toxin.

 

Have you used any new household cleaners or detergents on their beds/blankets?

[GreysInSA]

I hate jumping on bandwagon stories from the news and social media - but in 2013, Costco did recall its Jerky treats. Wonder if something is going on with them again. So strange that they both appeared to have gotten a toxin.

 

Have you used any new household cleaners or detergents on their beds/blankets?

 

I missed that Costco recall back in 2013 but did see it last week when I did a search to see if anything I currently give the dogs has a recall. I agree that a toxin seems the most likely considering the timing of them both getting it together. But i'm baffled as to what. The only thing I can think of new inside the house is using Arm & Hammer carpet deodorizer but I used that after Lizzie was sick. And a couple weeks ago I accidentally got the blue toilet tablet instead of the color free. But the dogs don't drink out of the toilet bowl and the lids are usually closed anyways. Can't think of anything outside either. And we had 4" of rain last Tues, Wed, and Thursday so if there was a toxin hopefully it would be well washed away. I've made numerous trips around my yard (including mowing) and can't find anything. I suppose how long it would take a toxin to be flushed out of the body depends on what it is.

[XTRAWLD]

New plant in the house, did they get into your vitamins or pills, when was their last trip to the dog park, what contact did they have with other dogs period, eat a mouse that was poisoned? Just throwing things out there. You might never know, but a good antibiotic is a good start. For what it's worth, lepto loves water, wouldn't necessarily wash away.

Edited April 2, 2018 by XTRAWLD

[GreysInSA]

New plant in the house, did they get into your vitamins or pills, when was their last trip to the dog park, what contact did they have with other dogs period, eat a mouse that was poisoned? Just throwing things out there. You might never know, but a good antibiotic is a good start. For what it's worth, lepto loves water, wouldn't necessarily wash away.

 

No new plants. Vitamins/medications well out of their reach. Can't go to the dog park because Lizzie is terrified of any dog that is not a greyhound. I use traps for mice (no poison... lost a cat that way many years ago).

I appreciate the ideas. Maybe somebody will come up with something I haven't.

[BatterseaBrindl]

No ideas

Just sending

[MaryJane]

I talked with my vet and ran by some of the things you guys have mentioned:

 

Tick Panel: They get one done as part of their annual so have both had them in the last year (Rhone in December, Lizzie last August). Vet said it may take 12-18 months for a dog to get sick from a tick bite so they may have been fine at their annual and just gotten sick now. Although unlikely since they both got sick within days of one another. Just to rule it out we are going back in tomorrow for another tick panel.

 

Denamarin: Vet agreed that it may suppress appetite and was fine with stopping it for a couple days to rule out if the appetite loss is due to whatever ails them or the Denamarin.

 

Amoxycillian vs Doxycycline: Vet agreed that doxy is a more broad spectrum antibiotic but that Amoxy is better with liver issues which is why he went with that.

 

Leptospirosis: Its part of their annual vaccination although vet did say that the vaccine isn't for all strains and, much like you can get a flu vaccine and still get the flu, they could still get it but he didn't think their lapwork and symptoms indicated it was the issue.

 

 

The tick panel picks up antibodies so it may not pick up an active infection - I think you need to run a PCR (PCP?) test for active infections (not quite sure- it's been a year since I researched this). As to how long after a tick bite you get symptoms - could be as early as a few days but, it could also be a few months. For example, my Lucy is now positive for Anaplasmosis and she was sick last January (2017) for a few months (low platelets) and the tick panels were coming out negative. We never did the PCR tests back then because there were too many diseases to check for (each one has it's own test) and she was stable although we had to delay her dental for 6+ months while the platelets slowly went back to normal.

 

What part of the country are you in ?

 

edited to add -- looks like you are in Texas, could also be Valley fever - cause by fungus in southwest part of USA -- https://vcahospitals.com/know-your-pet/valley-fever-in-dogs

Edited April 3, 2018 by MaryJane

[racindog]

Since both dogs have the same symptoms, first thing I would suspect is a contaminated bag of food or any of the treats, especially if it was a newly opened bag you were feeding from. Check the treats to see if any of them are "Made in China." Second is the dog flu that's been going around. Third is something that somehow they picked up out in the yard. There was a alert in a dog group I'm in about someone somewhere in Texas (I don't remember exactly where) was deliberately poisoning dogs. Fourth is always Tick Born Diseases - lyme or others. Did your vet run any tests for those?

 

Hope you can figure out what's wrong. Good luck.

These were my thoughts as well. Get rid of all the food/treats you have been feeding. Get new and if it were me I would be done with the old manufacturers. Todays manufacturers cannot be trusted to own up even if they know something is unsafe-particularly if only a small portion of their overall production was affected. It could also always have been harmed in the shipment and storage process too. Make sure no one has baited their yard with anything also. Muzzles-particularly with stool guards-are pretty good for this as it will give you time to react if you see them too interested in something. It is one of the reasons I always muzzle. People are so evil these days. Right here in this city some evildoer poisoned 3 hounds, 1 of whom was deaf, and they had to throw the poisoned bait clear over top of a tall privacy fence! and it killed all 3 hounds! You never know. If you get tick test make sure to familiarize yourself with the type you need. If you get mere antibody results which some vets will tell you is a tick test it is essentially worthless and meaningless. I would also be consulting a quality holistic vet familiar with detoxification procedures or at least detoxifying them myself and trying to build up their immune system with things like colostrum to help them recover. This detox prep in the link has been mentioned on GT before. It is where I found out about it and the bloodwork actually improved on 2 different peoples hounds once they used it. http://www.newtonlabs.net/Pets-Detoxifier/productinfo/P025/ Also if you are using any of the insecticides/spot ons, or collars for flea tick control I would be removing them asap also. In the first place there has been way too many bad rxns with some of them and in the second you have no way of knowing if the particular treatments/collars you got did not get an excessively high dose of the insecticide somehow in the manufacturing process. It happens and the manufacturer is not going to acknowledge it. And yes we have all seen some of them removed from the market because they were found unsafe BUT how many dogs died before that was done? Sadly quite a few paid the price before it was acknowledged. I am not up on the details but I do know of one vet that says Bravecto has too many serious adverse reactions.

Hope your houndies recover quickly whatever it is!

[NeylasMom]

First of all, do not get rid of the food you've been feeding! Switch them to something else, but keep the old stuff in case a recall happens at some point. I might also call the manufacturers and ask if there have been any reports of adverse events recently and report yours. It takes time for things like this to be connected to a food issue and the food to be recalled. What canned foods have you been feeding?

 

I personally don't think I'd be spending my money testing for all kinds of infectious diseases that aren't also contagious (like TBDs) as it seems very unlikely to me they would both get sick in close proximity like that. And treating with the ABs would address TBDs and Lepto anyway. Logically it seems to me you are either dealing with a toxin or a contagious disease.

 

Do you walk them or just turn them out in your yard? Are they supervised while in the yard? Not sure what the weather is like where you are - are there mushrooms springing up? Any neighbors who would want to harm your dogs? Are you *positive* they didn't drink the toilet water? Do they tend to eat things off the ground when you're out or not? What about animal feces? Any animals that could be toxic where you are? Bites to both would again be so unlikely but what about toads for instance with all of the rain? Some are toxic if licked though I would expect vomiting in that case.

 

I still think this is most likely food related. If you haven't already, change everything. Don't feed anything at all that you were and if it was food related they should improve.

Edited April 3, 2018 by NeylasMom

[cleptogrey]

 

Costco accepts returns of opened partially used products even w/o a receipt.

 

Best of luck, sounds like maybe valley fever or a toxicin. anaplasmosis is from what I have read a more northern disease.

Edited April 3, 2018 by cleptogrey

[GreysInSA]

First of all, do not get rid of the food you've been feeding! Switch them to something else, but keep the old stuff in case a recall happens at some point. I might also call the manufacturers and ask if there have been any reports of adverse events recently and report yours. It takes time for things like this to be connected to a food issue and the food to be recalled. What canned foods have you been feeding?

 

I personally don't think I'd be spending my money testing for all kinds of infectious diseases that aren't also contagious (like TBDs) as it seems very unlikely to me they would both get sick in close proximity like that. And treating with the ABs would address TBDs and Lepto anyway. Logically it seems to me you are either dealing with a toxin or a contagious disease.

 

Do you walk them or just turn them out in your yard? Are they supervised while in the yard? Not sure what the weather is like where you are - are there mushrooms springing up? Any neighbors who would want to harm your dogs? Are you *positive* they didn't drink the toilet water? Do they tend to eat things off the ground when you're out or not? What about animal feces? Any animals that could be toxic where you are? Bites to both would again be so unlikely but what about toads for instance with all of the rain? Some are toxic if licked though I would expect vomiting in that case.

 

I still think this is most likely food related. If you haven't already, change everything. Don't feed anything at all that you were and if it was food related they should improve.

 

The food they were eating when they got sick is already gone and a new bag started. And now they are on Hills Science diet Liver from the Vet. Canned food varies but usually Alpo or Iams. And one can goes for 4 meals so they aren't getting a lot of canned food.

 

They get both neighborhood walks and turned out in the yard. Sometimes they are supervised in the yard and sometimes not. They often like to go out in the spring and fall and lay in the grass and sunbathe. We live in San Antonio. No mushrooms in the part of the yard they access. I doubt the neighbors would intentionally do something to harm the dogs. I'm on good terms with all of them. I talk to one neighbor to see if he had used pesticides or fertilizer recent and he hadn't. Still need to talk to the people behind me. I couldn't swear they haven't drank from the toilet but the lids are usually down and they have shown zero interest in doing sot for the 6+ years i've had them. Lizzie is picky but Rhone would eat anything if he thought it was food. But they aren't allowed to pick up stuff on walks and i regularly patrol the yard and haven't seen anything out of the ordinary. We do have plenty of squirrels and the occasional possum or raccoon wander through. No toads/frogs.

 

Rhone had another vet appointment this morning. As he wasn't improving the vet sent us to an internal medicine specialist where he will spend the night getting IV therapy and have a bunch of tests run including tick panel, lepto, and a couple others I can't remember (don't have the list in front of me).

[Remolacha]

It is very frustrating to not know the cause! I have been told that tick diseases can lie dormant for years before becoming active, but with both dogs getting sick the same way at the same time, it sounds more like a toxin. I hope you can figure out what is going on, and more importantly, I hope they get better.

[NeylasMom]

So strange, hope you can figure it out. I think the internal medicine specialist is smart at this point.

 

One other thought, you don't use any essential oils, do you? Or anything that contains them?

 

And no new supplements added to their diet/regimen?

[macoduck]

Do they drink out from a bird bath when outdoors? That got all mine sick in one swoop.

 

Years ago chicken jerky did cause my mutt to have liver damage.