Osteo Hounds -- Is Gable Dodge, Wigwam Wag Or Hb's Commander In

[RaineysMom]

with Nube recently being diagnosed with osteo -- and several of the others here having him in their lineage as well (like Havoc, and including 2 brothers of our friend (Ale J. Hawk Mike and Ale J. Hawk Lucas -- and at least 2 of Wigwam Wag's pups, Noble Tully, Noble Rapids).I'm just curious how many others have Gable Dodge (or Wigwam Wag or HB's Commander, since they seem to share a commonality in cancer pups ) and have/had cancer. I hope this isn't morbid, I'm just really, really wondering. Nube's one sister (that we know what happened to her, RJ's Holly, died of osteo at 8 years old).

 

if you don't know your pups lineage, you can go here http://greyhound-data.com/breed.htm and enter your dog's racing name, click search and his lineage will show.

 

if one of these guys aren't in their lineage, please post their racing names. I know this sounds weird. I try to make sense of senseless things.

Edited July 22, 2012 by RaineysMom

[dmswartzfager]

Hmm - interesting. Of the seven I've adopted, only one has had osteo, and she has HB's Commander as a great-grandsire. The other six do not have any of the three dogs in their pedigrees.

[Time4ANap]

There has been some discussion about this in the past. Might want to search the names on Gt and see if the threads still come up. I don't remember specifics, except that Rocket is in the same lines and we hold our breath every time he stumbles a little or holds up his paw. Fortunately, it's usually a charley horse, or something between his toes on a walk.

[Guest patterpaws]

Tristan's racing name was "Heritage" but I've never been able to find his racing history. I assume maybe he flunked out during training?

 

edit: I see a "Heritage" on there but his info is different... he's listed as black instead of brindle. Also one of Tristan's ear tat's is 33A, so that means he was born March of 2003, right? The Heritage I find online was born July 2002: http://greyhound-data.com/d?i=945635

 

Edit 2: If that "Heritage" is indeed Tristan, he does have Wigwam Wag in his lineage..

Edited July 22, 2012 by patterpaws

[RaineysMom]

Tristan's racing name was "Heritage" but I've never been able to find his racing history. I assume maybe he flunked out during training?

 

does he have any tatoos? or do you know his birthday? that might help find him.

 

Found one, Heritage -- born 7/7/2002. ? http://greyhound-data.com/d?i=945635

 

and a Wigwam Wag pup

Edited July 22, 2012 by RaineysMom

[NeylasMom]

Certain dogs, like Gable Dodge have a huge number of offspring, so it's expected that more pups in those lines will turn up with osteo. I understand that Shelley Lake is doing a study on lineage and osteo in greyhounds, but doesn't plan to publish her findings. Honestly, while there may be a slightly higher occurrence of osteo in greyhounds than other large breed dogs, it's still similar - there isn't much making sense of it, it's just something we have to face if we continue to adopt this breed, as much as it sucks.

[Guest patterpaws]

I started looking more and found that guy too. It can't be Tristan unless there was some mistake in the ear tatoos. One tattoo is illegible to me, but the other is 33A. So that means he was born March of 2003, right? Also the Heritage online is listed as black instead of brindle? Hrmm..

 

Darn that Wigwam!!!!!

 

edit: Now I'm really curious. Do brindles look black when they are born? maybe he was marked black as a puppy? Of the dogs in his lineage with photos on the site, all but one is brindle just like him. If this is actually Tristan, he's almost a year older than I thought he was....

Edited July 22, 2012 by patterpaws

[Guest twoskinnydogs]

There is a study in progress to try and determine where the cancer started.....

[krissn333]

Pinky has HB's Commander.

 

Sutra (Fliowa Sutra) did not have any of those dogs in his lineage, but he's got Onie Jones, another hound rumored to have passed the osteo gene, on both sides of his pedigree, I think.

[JJNg]

Here's a link to a previous discussion about Dr. Shelley Lake's informal study with contact info on how to send her info. Even though the thread is old, she is still taking new info.

 

Dr. Lake recently posted to a Facebook group about her goals with this study. This is what she wrote:

 

"What I am trying to do is to work backward through the blood lines and see if there is such a thing as the founding "father" or "mother" of cancer in our greyhounds. My study is on ALL cancers. Dr. Couto is doing the study only on osteo..... My osteo information is going to him. So he is looking at the affected versus the unaffected like you expect and our study will be published sometime. .... my study will not be published, as I don't want to hurt the greyhounds waiting for homes.....Dr. Couto's osteo only study will be published, but I don't know when."

[GreytNut]

Argus (Gable Republic) had osteo. He was a Gable Dodge pup. He had Wigwam Wag on both sides.

 

Tiny (EL Tiny) also had osteo. He was an HB's Commander grandpup.

 

Raven (TV Fat Fanny) is 12 1/2 and no osteo. She doesn't have any of those in her pedigree. No Onie Jones either. Wonder if that's coincidence.

 

Riley (TNJ Matador) is a Gable Dodge grandpup. I'm keeping my fingers crossed....

 

I understand not wanting to hurt the adoption chances of retired racers, but if the findings of the study remain a secret, won't breeders keep using those lines and passing on the genes to more generations?

Edited July 22, 2012 by GreytNut

[Guest twoskinnydogs]

My Emma (answertoimposter) had none of those in her bloodline and she got osteo at age 12. My Toby was a Molotov pup, so he had HB's Commander, Toby died from Hemangiosarcoma not OS. My current two, John (John McEuen) has Fortress and Loxahatchee Dash, and Rita has Flying Penske and Kiowa Sweet Trey so I am a little worried as Sweet Trey is a HB's Commander grandpup. I wish we knew why cancer is taking our sweet hounds so early......

[Neighsayer]

Tucker (Tuckers Longstride)was an HB's commander grandpup. He was almost nine years old when osteo took him in 2009.

 

Mickey(Perfectly Stable) has Hb's commander on his mother's side. He is currently nine years old, and ok.

 

My others do not have any of those in their family tree:

 

Meeka (Nitro Cookie) died of kidney disease earlier this year at 12

 

Suds (Huds Stranger) is 12 and healthy

 

Bubba (Hallo Apple Seed) will be 13 in October...also healthy

Edited July 22, 2012 by Neighsayer

[Guest Fasave]

All my pups are desendants of HB's Commander. My first two have passed. Safari to a host of issues but likely lymphoma just shy of 10. Ave passed at 12 to hemangiosarcoma. My current two are only 6 & 4 . My fingers are crossed that they have a long healthy life.

 

I'm wrong. My first two are Mystic Rose descendants who is Molotov's mother. My current two both have HB's Commander, Molotov's father. I knew they were all connected. Just forgot how.

Edited July 22, 2012 by Fasave

[dmdsmoxie]

I started looking more and found that guy too. It can't be Tristan unless there was some mistake in the ear tatoos. One tattoo is illegible to me, but the other is 33A. So that means he was born March of 2003, right? Also the Heritage online is listed as black instead of brindle? Hrmm..

 

Darn that Wigwam!!!!!

 

edit: Now I'm really curious. Do brindles look black when they are born? maybe he was marked black as a puppy? Of the dogs in his lineage with photos on the site, all but one is brindle just like him. If this is actually Tristan, he's almost a year older than I thought he was....

 

You are right 33 is March of 2003 and a brindle pup is brindle when born so that isn't your pup.

[Greydawg]

Crap. Heisman has HB Commander on his sire's side, and Wigwam Wag on his dam's side. He freaked us out for a several days when he started limping on his front right leg, but by the time I got him to the vet last Saturday, the limping had stopped. The vet detected a very small corn-like thing on his paw pad, but I swear I don't see it now. I am keeping a very close eye on him, and holding my breath. This is a lottery I certainly don't want us to win.

 

Alex does not have any of these dogs in his lineage.

[Guest PhillyPups]

Of the 5 I lost to cancer (3 to osteo) none of them had Gable Dodge, Wigwam Wag or HB's Commander in their bloodlines. The Queen (BarbieJade) was an HBs Commander's daughter and lifed to 14 cancrr free. Don't mean to blow that theory, but not in my exerience.

[vjgrey]

I really hope not - all three of my current babies have HB Commander, in their lines. Gabe (Zared), who I just lost to osteo at ten and a half, did not.

[dmdsmoxie]

With the advent of frozen semen you now have sires with 10 to 15 thousand pups. Therefore, the vast majority of dogs will have Sweet Trey, Dodge, Wag is Dodge's sire so for every Dodge you have Wag along with otheres Wag sired not through Dodge.

 

Commander is the sire of Molotov and Mankato so you have who knows how many pups with Commander in them once you go back 3 or 4 generations.

 

To give you an example, Wag sired 3340 pups that were entered on GD. Of those pups as the damsire or just the female lines he has 5166. One of the pups he sired was Gable Dodge who shows 10,862 pups on GD. Dodge was the damsire of 8823 pups entered on GD.

 

One of those pups was Dodgem By Design. DBD, so far, shows 11,025 pups sired and as a damsire he is already up to 1871.

 

Another Dodge pup was Lonesome Cry. He sired 5750 pups so far.

 

Both DBD and Cry are still in the top 5 for stud dogs.

 

You also have remember that of the 10,000 or so pups some of there dogs have well over 99% of them will never be bred.

 

You will drive yourself crazy trying to figure out where osteo came from. Just enjoy your dogs.

[GreyPoopon]

I've lost two to OS, both at ~ 10 1/2 yrs. Cora (RL Nevada) was a daughter of Wigwam Wag.

 

Tally (Thunder La La) does not seem to have any of the hounds mentioned in her lineage.

[cleptogrey]

http://www.greyhound...r=&birthland=US

emily(had osteo) off spring of wigwam wag

 

waiting to see what happens w/ my other 2, both have wigwam wag and hb commander in their heritage- but who doesn't??? molotov and gable dodge in their lines. everytime they limp i cringe........it's like walking time bombs.

 

annie: http://www.greyhound...com/d?i=1600813

felix is unlisted, but we are pretty sure his sire is a molotov pup, but who isn't?

http://www.greyhound....com/d?i=965089

http://www.greyhound-data.com/d?d=ea%27s+itsaboy&sex=m&color=&birthyear=&birthland=US(he's a dead ringer and that's the stud dog at the farm where he was born)

Edited July 22, 2012 by cleptogrey

[HopeForHounds]

I understand not wanting to hurt the adoption chances of retired racers, but if the findings of the study remain a secret, won't breeders keep using those lines and passing on the genes to more generations?

 

That's where the newest about, to be published, inormation they have comes in They have identified the gene osteo appears in and can test potential dams and sires to see if that hound carries the gene. It's a lot more accurate than looking at a hounds genealogy.

[Guest MyCody]

Leah who is 11 is a granddaughter to Wigwam Wag and she's been our healthiest girl out of the six. Her racing name is Jeste Brave, I can no longer get in the web site and have written trying to set it up again and never get a reply back.

[Charlies_Dad]

Our Charlie (CTR Midas Touch) who passed at 9.5yrs of Osteo (it was the originating cancer but a tumour on the heart killed him) did not have Gable Dodge, Wigwam Wag or HB Commander. He did have Onie Jones in his lineage though but so do most pups. Our Jack (Roy Jack), had HB's Commander but he did not have cancer, instead he passed due to a bad heart at 8.5yrs.

 

Unfortunately due to the number of pups these hounds have had, many will be able to be traced back to them.

[robinw]

Our Charlie (CTR Midas Touch) who passed at 9.5yrs of Osteo (it was the originating cancer but a tumour on the heart killed him) did not have Gable Dodge, Wigwam Wag or HB Commander. He did have Onie Jones in his lineage though but so do most pups. Our Jack (Roy Jack), had HB's Commander but he did not have cancer, instead he passed due to a bad heart at 8.5yrs.

 

Unfortunately due to the number of pups these hounds have had, many will be able to be traced back to them.

Phoenix had the same dad as Charlie and also passed away from osteo.

 

I can understand the importance of tracing the osteo gene, etc., but I think we can drive ourselves crazy using that info to worry about our dogs. What happens, happens and it is out of our control.