Buddy’s not eating

[MerseyGrey]

Well hello again, I’m here asking for some more advice. For almost two weeks, Buddy has been quite picky over his food. At first we thought he was holding out for tasty treats, as he would half eat his tea / breakfast in order to get the goodies at the end (chew stick or toothbrush), but usually he would return to his food and finish it off after the treat. Then he started to turn his nose up at things he would normally eat- we put kefir and yogurt on his food because he loves it, and mix a small amount of wet food into his breakfast for a bit of variety. 
So at first, he pretty much stopped eating his tea. After his evening wee, he gets a hairy rabbit ear (his all-time favourite treat) and he will still eat that - even to the point of asking to go out for a wee to get the treat. But no tea, and no supper. Then breakfast has started to tail off and basically now, he is not eating his kibble at all. I’ve tried being inventive and adding small amounts of extras that he normally loves (please don’t judge me, but I’ve tried most things from honey to salad cream!), and something that works one day won’t work the next.

He hasn’t really eaten anything much for the past 48 hours - he had a couple of ears yesterday, a few treats (which he is still taking) and he has had a couple of weetabix soaked in watered-down kefir. He is tired - tired like I have never seen him before, but it’s hard to know if this is the effect of the acupuncture, the fact that he is barely eating, or if age has finally caught up with him .

I don’t think that the acupuncture is causing the eating problem - in fact, at his Tuesday appointment he scoffed a puffed pig snout. I’ve considered that his teeth might be playing up but he turns down soft food but will happy have his usual chews. I made a kind of chicken soup which he ate one day but wouldn’t eat the next. He hasn’t had diarrhoea but we‘ve had one episode of vomiting - more like regurgitation but it was about 8 hours after his previous meal at breakfast. That was Tuesday (before the pig snout and acupuncture appointment), and I wondered if so much hair from the rabbit ears is bunging him up a bit, although he is still only having 2-3 a day, and it has never been a problem before. He can be a bit of a scavenger but neither of us think he’s eaten anything he shouldn’t have. His walks have been very short, mostly by his choice for the last week. 

We have another appointment at the vet tomorrow so we can see what he says. At the minute I’m thinking about getting some wet food too see if that interests him at all, and see if he perks up a bit. Buddy is very food oriented and even if he’s been sick before, he’s never gone for this long without eating properly, and he’s still interested in the prospect of food, as he will have a sniff of it, but he just doesn’t seem to want to eat it.

Unless it’s chorizo 

Has anyone been here with their senior dogs?

[EllenEveBaz]

Most of us have been there, unfortunately.  We all know what lengths we'll go to to try to get a dog to eat.  Sometimes, heating up food a little seems to help -- maybe because it enhances the smell.   But that doesn't address the cause.  

At the vet visit, my suggestion is to have Buddy get what we call here a Complete Blood Count (?), anyway, it's referred to as a CBC.  You'll have to wait a bit for the results, but it will probably provide clues that the regular, quicker, and cheaper blood test just doesn't cover.   I agree with you -- it doesn't sound like teeth are the main problem, even if the vet finds they need cleaning or more.  

Hugs to the Budster and his worried family.   

[greysmom]

Pretty common with senior dogs to lose their appetite for one reason or another.  Most of my seniors have opted out of a meal - usually breakfast - as they've gotten older.

Some things to consider:

>  Consider feeding only once per day.  Or one meal and one smaller snack - like a tea - about 12 hours apart.  Unless he needs food to take medications.

>  kidney issues can cause nausea which causes loss of appetite.  It's a vicious spiral that leads only downwards unless you can find something he can tolerate.  Being interested in food prep but then not interested in eating is a classic sign of nausea.

>  Probably not the acupuncture.  Though I would mention it and see if they can do their magic and help with the nausea.

>  That's a LOT of fur to be putting into a system theat's not working properly.  It could definitely be causing issues.  And things like Greenies and other teeth chews probably don't have any nutrition to speak of that's helping him.

>  There's no law that says they have to eat kibble.  Especially when it's more important to just get some calories in him for the day.   If he'll eat canned food, or store-bought roasted chicken, or McDonalds cheeseburgers plain you can use those things to make sure he gets *something* in his stomach.  Also try feeding him on his bed, or in the living room, eating off a plate instead of his metal (or usual) bowl, using a spoon to feed him like a baby, making the food warmer or colder (sometimes it's the smell that makes them nauseaus), frozen plain yogurt, cottage cheese, peanut butter or cheese sandwiches, scrambled eggs and bacon.  I've even resorted to pretending to eat something like human food (unless it is human food!  ) since that usually gets them interested.  I take a bite, they get a bite - but using separate utensils!!

>  Your vet can also prescribe an appetite stimulate like mirtazipine.  And as a last (last last last) resort you can try prednizone, since steroids often will stimulate the appetite.  But for seniors it can also cause terrible alternate side effects (lack of energy, extreme muscle wasting, incontinence), so I've learned that this is the last thing to try.

Good luck for you and Buddy!!  {{{hugs}}} 

[FiveRoooooers]

Such good dog peeps, Buddy is lucky to be with you!

Chris posted as I was typing much of what she suggested. I'm glad that Buddy is being seen tomorrow, hopefully a CBC and a good going-over can shed light on what may be going on. FWIW, we have had excellent results with the prescribed appetite stim "Entyce." To encourage weight gain, canned puppy food can do wonders. A good canned food, warmed, can often spark an interest. You can pulverize his kibble and add anything and everything to it.

That you are seeing Buddy tired is an important observation and I really, really hope that Buddy is just having a spell and you have many more good times together. 

Buddy  

eta, when Punkin thinks that she wants something other than what's in her dish, I walk away and ignore her whilst keeping "the eye in the back of my head" on her. I can often hear her sigh as she proceeds to clean her plate 

Edited September 29, 2023 by FiveRoooooers

[Remolacha]

Chris and Jan have pretty much covered all my suggestions. I’ve had several seniors and they all got here sooner or later, and different things worked with different dogs. I hope that’s all it is, I agree it sounds more like nausea than teeth. There are anti nausea drugs, Cerenea (spelling?) comes to mind, and I’ve had good luck with Entyce with a couple of dogs. If the CBC doesn’t turn up anything, consider an ultrasound.   Hoping it is just picky old age for Buddy.

[MerseyGrey]

40 minutes ago, EllenEveBaz said:

Most of us have been there, unfortunately.  We all know what lengths we'll go to to try to get a dog to eat.  Sometimes, heating up food a little seems to help -- maybe because it enhances the smell.   But that doesn't address the cause.  

At the vet visit, my suggestion is to have Buddy get what we call here a Complete Blood Count (?), anyway, it's referred to as a CBC.  You'll have to wait a bit for the results, but it will probably provide clues that the regular, quicker, and cheaper blood test just doesn't cover.   I agree with you -- it doesn't sound like teeth are the main problem, even if the vet finds they need cleaning or more.  

Hugs to the Budster and his worried family.   

 

15 minutes ago, greysmom said:

Pretty common with senior dogs to lose their appetite for one reason or another.  Most of my seniors have opted out of a meal - usually breakfast - as they've gotten older.

Some things to consider:

>  Consider feeding only once per day.  Or one meal and one smaller snack - like a tea - about 12 hours apart.  Unless he needs food to take medications.

>  kidney issues can cause nausea which causes loss of appetite.  It's a vicious spiral that leads only downwards unless you can find something he can tolerate.  Being interested in food prep but then not interested in eating is a classic sign of nausea.

>  Probably not the acupuncture.  Though I would mention it and see if they can do their magic and help with the nausea.

>  That's a LOT of fur to be putting into a system theat's not working properly.  It could definitely be causing issues.  And things like Greenies and other teeth chews probably don't have any nutrition to speak of that's helping him.

>  There's no law that says they have to eat kibble.  Especially when it's more important to just get some calories in him for the day.   If he'll eat canned food, or store-bought roasted chicken, or McDonalds cheeseburgers plain you can use those things to make sure he gets *something* in his stomach.  Also try feeding him on his bed, or in the living room, eating off a plate instead of his metal (or usual) bowl, using a spoon to feed him like a baby, making the food warmer or colder (sometimes it's the smell that makes them nauseaus), frozen plain yogurt, cottage cheese, peanut butter or cheese sandwiches, scrambled eggs and bacon.  I've even resorted to pretending to eat something like human food (unless it is human food!  ) since that usually gets them interested.  I take a bite, they get a bite - but using separate utensils!!

>  Your vet can also prescribe an appetite stimulate like mirtazipine.  And as a last (last last last) resort you can try prednizone, since steroids often will stimulate the appetite.  But for seniors it can also cause terrible alternate side effects (lack of energy, extreme muscle wasting, incontinence), so I've learned that this is the last thing to try.

Good luck for you and Buddy!!  {{{hugs}}} 

 

6 minutes ago, FiveRoooooers said:

Such good dog peeps, Buddy is lucky to be with you!

Chris posted as I was typing much of what she suggested. I'm glad that Buddy is being seen tomorrow, hopefully a CBC and a good going-over can shed light on what may be going on. FWIW, we have had excellent results with the prescribed appetite stim "Entyce." To encourage weight gain, canned puppy food can do wonders. A good canned food, warmed, can often spark an interest. You can pulverize his kibble and add anything and everything to it.

That you are seeing Buddy tired is an important observation and I really, really hope that Buddy is just having a spell and you have many more good times together. 

Buddy  

Thank you all so much! I’ll ask the vet about a blood test tomorrow, I think we might call it a full blood count but I’m sure he will know. Your posts have cheered me up - I have spent much time this week making ‘mmmmm tasty!’ noises and sharing the odd handful of shreddies with him. 
I’m pleased to report that he has had half a can of wet food for tea, and is currently munching happily on some broccoli stalks. We’ll get ourselves down to the pet food place nearby and pick up some more wet food tomorrow, and pop some soft cheese on the shopping list. I’m sure a Buddy would want me to thank you from him too - my greyhound epicure!

[MerseyGrey]

On 9/29/2023 at 6:32 PM, Remolacha said:

Chris and Jan have pretty much covered all my suggestions. I’ve had several seniors and they all got here sooner or later, and different things worked with different dogs. I hope that’s all it is, I agree it sounds more like nausea than teeth. There are anti nausea drugs, Cerenea (spelling?) comes to mind, and I’ve had good luck with Entyce with a couple of dogs. If the CBC doesn’t turn up anything, consider an ultrasound.   Hoping it is just picky old age for Buddy.

Thank you.

A little update from yesterday’s vet visit. Firstly, I have a tendency to tell the experts what I think I know about situations which makes the experts clam up a little, but thanks to all your advice, I was able to lay out the symptoms that Buddy has had more clearly and had a proper discussion with the vet who I might be a little bit in love with. He seems to be sensible and thorough without going over the top and he is very reassuring.

He tried to tempt Buddy with some treats to test his willingness to eat. Buddy made a complete liar of me as he often does and almost snapped the vet’s hand off for some Schmakos . He gave Buds an anti-nausea injection (cerenia) after he rejected his pig snout during the acupuncture session, and took some blood. I don’t think he did a full screen as the results were back yesterday afternoon but it looks like he has directed his investigations appropriately and we have a bit of a plan.

Buddy’s red blood cell count is normal but his white cells were elevated (x2). It’s a mix of acute and chronic WBCs. His liver enzymes are normal but his GGT is also elevated (x6). The vet says this pattern is highly suggestive of gallbladder inflammation, and the symptoms we’ve seen would support this (although they are not specific). He said that it might resolve on its own, so we have a few days to get him back to normal. We have our next acupuncture appointment on 10th October, so we’re planning an ultrasound for then, with the option to bring his appointment forward if he gets worse. At that appointment, we can look at antibiotics or anti-inflammatories if his suspicions are confirmed. He thinks we are going to find a mucocoele gallbladder rather than gallstones. I work in histology so I see these all the time when they’ve been extracted from people, but while I often receive these as specimens I don’t get the full clinical experience. Thanks, Buddy. 

So we trotted off to our local pet food store yesterday and picked up a few items to stimulate his appetite. So far, pate mixed with his kibble has been a success, but he turned his nose up at kibble soaked in beef broth, kibble soaked in pork broth (warm and cold) and this morning, he did not fancy the neat pumpkin purée I tried to tempt him with. I’m going to try this again later though because his eyes were on stalks and it might just be a bit early for him (it’s 5.20am here; we are generally early risers but not this early. We’ve been up for over an hour, woken by the sound of dripping in our bedroom thanks to our leaky roof, but that’s another story!). We did have success with a beef burger last night too so he has eaten something and I’m sure he will join us for toast later on. 
 

He also had a little play with Honky the Hedgehog yesterday which is usually a sign that he is feeling a little better. And his acupuncture is going well! He was the goodest boy yesterday when he had his neck shaved, and blood taken, and was jabbed for his anti nausea injection. 
Thanks again for the advice!

[macoduck]

I am so impressed with your vet and all the services done in one office. I'd have to drive in multiple directions to achieve. And I am so glad your vet listens to you.

Be a good boy, Buddy, and keep eating.

[MerseyGrey]

18 minutes ago, macoduck said:

I am so impressed with your vet and all the services done in one office. I'd have to drive in multiple directions to achieve. And I am so glad your vet listens to you.

Be a good boy, Buddy, and keep eating.

We are too. I think we are going to move to this vet for most services now. His monthly Librela injection will be up to £40 cheaper - I say up to, because I don’t think that we have been charged the same amount two months in a row - last month it was around £108, whereas the new vet will be £68. Our stance on Buddy is that we will pay what we have to if it improves his quality of life, but it doesn’t make any sense to pay out so much more for the same treatment if we are getting a good service for him elsewhere.

I’ve been reading a bit more about cholangitis and it seems that it’s probably developed from a bacterial or viral infection from something that he’s scavenged, but we’ve either missed it or because it hasn’t developed immediately we haven’t made the connection. He’s had some toast this morning and a bit of pate but he’s not really interested in much else. We’ve got some more wet food in and will try him with that when he’s up and about later

[FiveRoooooers]

It sounds as tho Buddy had a thorough exam and by a vet who listens and doesn't dismiss the owner concerns. That vet is a keeper! You're doing all "the things" and Buddy is in good hands. FWIW, Punkin has moved most "breakfasts" to "brunch" and we work from Seamie's List throughout the day to try to get enough noms into her. Once she's up and about and ready for brunch, usually the rest of the day goes well (usually). 

Buddy, it's noms!! We'll channel Cletus to guide you in the art of hoovering  There's a good boy 

[MerseyGrey]

34 minutes ago, FiveRoooooers said:

It sounds as tho Buddy had a thorough exam and by a vet who listens and doesn't dismiss the owner concerns. That vet is a keeper! You're doing all "the things" and Buddy is in good hands. FWIW, Punkin has moved most "breakfasts" to "brunch" and we work from Seamie's List throughout the day to try to get enough noms into her. Once she's up and about and ready for brunch, usually the rest of the day goes well (usually). 

Buddy, it's noms!! We'll channel Cletus to guide you in the art of hoovering  There's a good boy 

 I’ll pass this on to him - Auntie Jan says ‘work your inner lab/coonhound!’. Actually, he did just help us with our roast chicken…

[ramonaghan]

Buddy, Willa says milk this for all it's worth! Hold out for the really good stuff. I hope you feel better soon.  

[MerseyGrey]

5 minutes ago, ramonaghan said:

Buddy, Willa says milk this for all it's worth! Hold out for the really good stuff. I hope you feel better soon.  

Thank you. I think he might have a hotline to Willa as he seems to be following this advice ‘yes, I know that yesterday prime steak was what I wanted, but today I will only eat foie gras. Tomorrow, who knows?’

[EllenEveBaz]

Seems like you've gotten more into him the past day than previously.  Rave on, Mr Buddy Holly Molly! 

Milo (16% coonhound) gives 2 paws up to channeling Buddy's inner coonhound 

Edited October 1, 2023 by EllenEveBaz

[MerseyGrey]

 I haven’t done a genetic test on him but I am convinced Buddy is 95% cat, it’s just the shell that is greyhound

[Remolacha]

Nothing, NOTHING, is more important than having a vet (or human doctor) who actually listens to you! Sounds like this new vet is a keeper. 
All of my seniors, even Conner the food whore, eventually quit eating breakfast. I just moved the first meal to later, whenever, and went with it. In addition to the other things you’ve tried, canned cat food is often a popular topping. For awhile anyway, until it isn’t   

I hope Buddy continues to feel better 

[Time4ANap]

I'm just seeing this for the first time, but it sounds like Buddy is feeling a little better. Mark (10) has been more of a "brunch guy" for the past year or so and some days only eats one meal. He also doesn't turn down treats, so we've kind of accepted it as his normal. Oddly enough, once Gracie arrived and he realized that she liked his food as well as hers, he has become eager to eat when she does. 

All of our seniors have done this skipping a meal(s) thing at some point. We keep a case of magic canned chicken on hand and feed that if they go too long without eating, or if they suddenly have stomach grumbles or squeals. It seems to settle the tummy enough that they will go back to eating normally after a meal or two. 

Feel better sonn, Buddy. 

[greysmom]

I'm so glad Buddy is feeling a little better!!    

And yes, a vet you can have an actual conversation with, rather than being talked at - or down from - is worth their weight in gold!!  I left a whole practive because all the vets were "my way or the highway" doctors.  I don't accept that in my own human medicine, so why would I want it for my dog?!?!?

I did forget to add to my "piper noble" above - anytime he seems to want to eat and is interested in eating and will actually EAT, keep feeding him whatever it is (within reason).  When they feel this way you can have a very small windows of being able to keep things down, so try and take advantage of those when they occur.  I've ended up making sandwiches from rolls and chicken on my plate, or feeding spoonfuls of rice or potatoes or oatmeal from the counter, or toast and bacon from a takeout meal.  

{{{hugs}}} for you and the Budster!!

[MerseyGrey]

45 minutes ago, Remolacha said:

Nothing, NOTHING, is more important than having a vet (or human doctor) who actually listens to you! Sounds like this new vet is a keeper. 
All of my seniors, even Conner the food whore, eventually quit eating breakfast. I just moved the first meal to later, whenever, and went with it. In addition to the other things you’ve tried, canned cat food is often a popular topping. For awhile anyway, until it isn’t   

I hope Buddy continues to feel better 

This is sounding familiar!

 

42 minutes ago, Time4ANap said:

I'm just seeing this for the first time, but it sounds like Buddy is feeling a little better. Mark (10) has been more of a "brunch guy" for the past year or so and some days only eats one meal. He also doesn't turn down treats, so we've kind of accepted it as his normal. Oddly enough, once Gracie arrived and he realized that she liked his food as well as hers, he has become eager to eat when she does. 

All of our seniors have done this skipping a meal(s) thing at some point. We keep a case of magic canned chicken on hand and feed that if they go too long without eating, or if they suddenly have stomach grumbles or squeals. It seems to settle the tummy enough that they will go back to eating normally after a meal or two. 

Feel better sonn, Buddy. 

Thank you. He’s still showing similar symptoms so I think we are going to try and bring his appointment forward. He has eaten some more peanut butter on toast and yogurt but is not having more than a mouthful of anything else. There is no point in waiting to treat him if we can sort this out this week. Poor boy

[MerseyGrey]

59 minutes ago, greysmom said:

I'm so glad Buddy is feeling a little better!!    

And yes, a vet you can have an actual conversation with, rather than being talked at - or down from - is worth their weight in gold!!  I left a whole practive because all the vets were "my way or the highway" doctors.  I don't accept that in my own human medicine, so why would I want it for my dog?!?!?

I did forget to add to my "piper noble" above - anytime he seems to want to eat and is interested in eating and will actually EAT, keep feeding him whatever it is (within reason).  When they feel this way you can have a very small windows of being able to keep things down, so try and take advantage of those when they occur.  I've ended up making sandwiches from rolls and chicken on my plate, or feeding spoonfuls of rice or potatoes or oatmeal from the counter, or toast and bacon from a takeout meal.  

{{{hugs}}} for you and the Budster!!

I missed this as I got distracted when typing my previous reply! Thank you, this is what we have been trying to do so it’s good to know we’re on the right track. It’s whatever we can, whenever we can and trying again and again. And we start over again tomorrow 

[Jerilyn]

Hang in there! I know how frustrating and worrisome it can be trying to get a dog to eat.  You're doing great and have a great vet. Buddy is going to be just fine, I know it!

One thing I don't think I saw anyone suggest is just leaving something out. He might not want the chicken when you offer it to him, but leave it on a plate on the floor and go about your business. When you come back it just might be gone.

[MerseyGrey]

56 minutes ago, Jerilyn said:

Hang in there! I know how frustrating and worrisome it can be trying to get a dog to eat.  You're doing great and have a great vet. Buddy is going to be just fine, I know it!

One thing I don't think I saw anyone suggest is just leaving something out. He might not want the chicken when you offer it to him, but leave it on a plate on the floor and go about your business. When you come back it just might be gone.

Thank you. We can try that as it’s probably cold enough here overnight at the minute to keep it fresh-ish. I don’t want to jinx it, but he seems happy to have a bit of yogurt so I will leave some in his bowl.

[AUSgrey]

Dougie (9 yo neutered ex racer) did not want brunch today (a feast of kangaroo and veg by Lyka here in Australia). He is on the slim side and should not go without food at the moment. We happily watched on as he demolished a frozen, skinned duck neck instead, then, encouraged by this, we warmed up his kangaroo meal topped with canned wild caught salmon. Voila! Gone in a minute. Salmon works most of the time… sending you our best wishes.

[MerseyGrey]

2 hours ago, AUSgrey said:

Dougie (9 yo neutered ex racer) did not want brunch today (a feast of kangaroo and veg by Lyka here in Australia). He is on the slim side and should not go without food at the moment. We happily watched on as he demolished a frozen, skinned duck neck instead, then, encouraged by this, we warmed up his kangaroo meal topped with canned wild caught salmon. Voila! Gone in a minute. Salmon works most of the time… sending you our best wishes.

Thank you. I know that he loves tuna but salmon upsets his tummy a bit. I am willing to try almost anything although I think he can only eat small amounts of tuna because of the mercury in it. This morning he has had a reasonable amount of food compared to the last week, but he has started to turn his nose up at the pate and even (shock! Horror!) peanut butter toast.  I’ll contact the vet today and see if they can squeeze us in this week. Even if Buddy can stand a few more days not eating, I’m not sure my nerves can!

[greysmom]

11 hours ago, MerseyGrey said:

Thank you. I know that he loves tuna but salmon upsets his tummy a bit. I am willing to try almost anything although I think he can only eat small amounts of tuna because of the mercury in it. This morning he has had a reasonable amount of food compared to the last week, but he has started to turn his nose up at the pate and even (shock! Horror!) peanut butter toast.  I’ll contact the vet today and see if they can squeeze us in this week. Even if Buddy can stand a few more days not eating, I’m not sure my nerves can!

When we were trying to figure out things for Lilly - our chicken intolerant girl - to eat, one of the only things she would eat consistently was tuna.  By that point we were getting desperate to find something to give her, so we just went with it.  She was about three years old at the time.  She got a can of Premium Albacore tuna in water (wild line caught) 7oz, the really expensive kind   every single day.  We were worried enough to have her mercury levels tested every year, but the results were always the same - not even close to being at a dangerous level, only indicative of a diet including seafood.  She did gradually start eating other canned food - thank goodness for my grocery bill!! - but tuna was always her favorite and she ate several cans a week all her life.