Limping

[greyhoundlady]

My 6-1/2 year old greyhound, Lia, started to limp on her right front leg about 3 months ago.

Here is what has been going on, and I would appreciate any thoughts.

Three months ago I took her to the vet and he did bloodwork, checked for Lyme and other tick transmitted disease, checked urine, examined her from toenails to neck - for corns, hurt pads, nails, between toes, wrist, elbow, shoulder and neck. Stretched her leg and turned her neck (gently) and she showed no sign of discomfort at all. He felt she may have either pulled something or she was beginning to get arthritis. I was to give her cosequin and leash walk her for two weeks.

 

I followed that - but she is very active and it isn't easy to guard against her bursts of sudden running in the yard. She doesn't seem to be in pain, but I know they are stoic (she is my third grey). She is most pronounced in her limp after her long snoozes. When she first gets up, the limp is there and then she seems to 'work it out' after walking a bit. We go for long hikes and walks, she jumps in and out of the car, does steps, all with no problem or hesitation.

 

So, as I was still worried about what we all worry about - I called the vet and he took X-rays. Feet to neck. Nothing wrong with the bones. We both looked at the X-rays. He said the bones looked strong and healthy. He thinks she may have soft tissue injury and gave me Rimadyl 100 mg to see how that works. If she stays on it, we need to go back for some blood/urine tests. I don't exactly remember that part, as when I asked about the side effects, I wasn't too sure I want to give this to her.

 

I know there are many here way more experienced than I am with this and I would appreciate your thoughts so that the next time I go to the vet, I will be prepared with more questions.

 

I have read on here, that if they are limping, they are in pain, even if they aren't crying. I am just trying to figure out the best way to help her. Acupuncture? Another opinion? Stick with the Rimadyl?

Thanks for your input!

[ramonaghan]

Your description of Lia's limp and overall behavior sounds a lot like Sweep. I will spare you all the details of our long saga, but it started with a limp upon rising in late summer 2015, shortly before she turned 6. Over the course of a year or so, we did several rounds of x-rays, acupuncture, chiropractic, Chinese herbs, myriad joint supplements, months of leash walking, consults with orthopedic specialists, laser therapy, massage, and probably other stuff I'm forgetting. Nothing has ever showed on an x-ray, but eventually our second orthopedic specialist was able to isolate the pain response to a weight-bearing toe on her left front foot. The best guess is that it's an old racing injury that has developed arthritis over time.

 

The hardest part for us was determining where it hurt specifically. I'd definitely consider a consult with an orthopedic specialist if there's one near you, and another set of x-rays if it's been a while since the first set. If you can isolate the issue, you can try more targeted therapies like cold laser, acupuncture, chiropractic, and therapeutic massage. That said...

 

Every dog is different and people have justifiably strong opinions about NSAIDs, but for us Previcox has been the most effective treatment. Sweep has been off and on it for almost two years. Sometimes she only needs it every other day or so, sometimes daily, sometimes not at all. (I haven't figured out the pattern yet, but I suspect humidity and activity level affect it most.) And her bloodwork is still perfect (knock on wood). So I would try the Rimadyl if you haven't done so. If it works, your girl gets some relief and you can go from there. If it doesn't, that's diagnostically useful too.

 

The second most effective thing has been massaging the toe; the physical therapist taught us a couple of specific techniques, and Sweep obliges by roaching and sticking her feet in our faces. Your vet might have a recommendation for a PT in your area.

 

I know it's a worrisome and frustrating process, and wish you the best of luck figuring this out.

Edited September 12, 2017 by ramonaghan

[greysmom]

Maids are really one of the best drugs to start with if you're sure it's not cancer. They are relatively safe in the short term and can really help resolve soft tissue issues.

 

You need to be sure you are only giving them on a full stomach right after a meal. If it still upsets her stomach, give a Pepcid (or generic) 20 minutes prior to eating.

 

Some dogs will still have upset. If that happens to you, a different nsaid might work better for your dog.

 

The biggest thing to watch for is if her limp gets better as she is on the drug. It's not a specific pain reliever, but it does reduce inflammation which will reduce pain. If she's still limping after a week or so on an unsaid, then you can really begin to explore other causes.

 

If it's been longer than a couple months since the last trays, do them again. Osteo tumors can pop up in a matter of weeks. If the bones are still clean, it's on to the rest - neck trauma, un-erupted corns on that foot, deep tissue trauma in the shoulder including tendon damage and nerve sheath tumors, arthritis, nerve damage, etc.,.

 

If the unsaid doesn't work, or only works partially, you can discuss adding in a drug called Gabapentin. This is a human seizure drug but it's now being used in dogs for many things including nerve pains of all sorts. A consult with an orthopedic vet could also be useful if you and your vet can't find an answer.

 

Good luck.

[tbhounds]

Have the rads been interpreted by a radiologist? Start the rimadyl-need to know your dogs response.

[JohnF]

One of mine did OK on NSAIDS (Meloxicam) for 10 years. We doesed intelligently (full dose when acute, half dose at other tomes) gave Ranitidine to reduce stomach acid. She died in old age from renal failure.

 

As already mentioned, it's probably an old injury in the toes. Peggy gets like that if running too hard and then it takes about a month to go away. There is no way they can the 'told' to run at anything other than warp speed.

[racindog]

It sounds to me like Lia just has an old injury or something which causes maybe some inflammation/arthritis etc and hence pain. From what you described it sounds minor at this time to me. Perhaps it will get worse as she ages, or not-who knows? At any rate I am one of those people who are wary of using the NSAIDS for dogs-in fact I don't use them and I would never use them for anything as minor as what you describe. There is a vet here-not a holistic vet, a conventional vet, that refuses to use Rimadyl due to its association with kidney damage. My 2 oldest sweet dear greyhound ladies lived to be 14 1/2(Aggie) and 3 weeks shy of 15(MommaSeabird). They stayed comfortable with safe anti-inflammatories like Duralactin(proven to be effective), DGP pills, Fresh Factors(a necessity!) and Tramadol and Robaxin as required. The Tramadol/Robaxin combo I have used extensively and have found it to be safe and effective and quite a few vets use it. When combined with the supportive Dutalactin, FreshFactors, DGP pills etc to reduce inflammation etc it has worked quite well for us and has been safe and effective with long term use. I am a chemist so I am not some over reactive nut who is anti conventional medicine and I quite understand research reports and adverse reaction stats etc. However if only 1 in a 1000 dogs are harmed by something what difference does it make then when that one is yours? All of a sudden it makes all the difference. Nobody loves or cares for your dog like you do. Shockingly many who are supposed to care and pretend they do really don't. I have found from PAINFUL experience that I cannot trust the vets-for various reasons. My dogs depend on me to protect them-nobody loves them like I do! So I choose to use safer options. JMO.

[GeorgeofNE]

Any halfway decent vet will insist on bloodwork prior to putting a dog on a course of NSAIDs, and then every six months to a year to check for liver damage. There truly is no reason not to use them if used properly and with the proper precautions.

 

My Kramer would have been put down at least two years before he was without his NSAIDs.

 

As someone who suffers from chronic pain, I can say that I would MUCH rather risk damaging my internal organs than living in constant pain.

 

I'm not suggesting THIS dog is in constant pain--sounds like normal arthritis if it gets better when she moves about a bit.

 

But the fear of NSAIDs, in general--you have to weight the risk/benefit, like every other medication or herbal or other remedy you give your dog.

 

If there is no improvement on an NSAID, you stop giving it, and consider a second set of films on the most likely painful limb.

[greyhoundlady]

Thank you, everyone, for sharing your experiences and opinions. They are truly helpful.

 

I am going to start giving Lia the Rimadyl and watch how she does. Based on her reaction to it, I am going to try your other suggestions. After reading Sweep's story, it jogged a memory of a while back where Lia bruised a toe badly from her high speed racing in the yard. (Limping, vet, X-rays, nothing broken. It was clear what the cause was then.) I am going to check with the vet to see what foot that was - it is the one piece of paper I can't find in my folder for her! It will be interesting if it was the right foot. Uncovering the cause for the limp is indeed detective work. (Her recent X-rays and bloodwork were taken a week ago.)

 

I really appreciate your thoughts. I trust the vet, it is a two vet practice and both see Lia, but I also like to gather information and make decisions based on all of that. The experiences of other greyhound owners, for me, is key. Thank you, again!

[XTRAWLD]

Mystery limping is the worst and I've been battling it for years. Turns out for us it was a neck issue which could only be determined via an MRI, but now he's limping out of the blue again so I don't know what is up this time around.

 

Gabapentin and Metacam has been very helpful.

[Remolacha]

I just wanted to add, soft tissue injuries can take forever to heal. Two weeks leash walking would barely begin to start the healing process. So, I would give the NSAIDs and be prepared to be patient.

[cleptogrey]

what kind of x-rays- digital? much better quality

 

consider using a harness vs. collar for walking if it is a neck issue

 

have you considered an orthopedic specialist? that's what i did immediately for annie when something went south with her shoulder, neck- non-stop pain and screaming. how far away from KB(katonah bedford)Vet are you? Dr. Palamra was the ortho specialist that i used, FANTASTIC!!! There are quite a few greyhounds using Katonah Bedford right now. I did give him my monetary limitations since we do not have insurance, he was very respectful of it.And he totally understood my feeling about cancer, I lost my first GH to osteo(shoulder). Dr. P. is a concerned human, quick to follow up if i had any questions. Annie was on 6 weeks of crate rest for her injury and i very slowly built her stamina up. just at the 6 week mark she slipped harness at an antique show and bolted down the main st. of brimfield, ma at 30+ mph. she did recover from that event pretty quickly since she was really mended. so, be careful with harnesses, and the one she had on was tight! harnesslead products are the only harnesses she can't houdini out of.

 

And yes soft tissue takes forever to mend. is she on crate rest?

 

and do neurotically look at her pads- tiny corns can really annoy some dogs.

best of luck getting to the bottom of this. it can take time and expertise.

[PatricksMom]

Leo had a limp that wouldn't resolve. We took him to a vet that specialized in Physical Therapy. She taught us how to do specific exercises with him, massage the injured area, and he did a few rounds of laser therapy. The problem (shoulder issue) sometimes re-occurs and we start back up, but it helped a lot. If that's an option, I would try a consult and see what the vet says. I know with human stuff, I've several times had doctors misdiagnosis the source of the problem and had the PT figure it out and successfully treat it.

[ramonaghan]

Thank you, everyone, for sharing your experiences and opinions. They are truly helpful.

 

I am going to start giving Lia the Rimadyl and watch how she does. Based on her reaction to it, I am going to try your other suggestions. After reading Sweep's story, it jogged a memory of a while back where Lia bruised a toe badly from her high speed racing in the yard. (Limping, vet, X-rays, nothing broken. It was clear what the cause was then.) I am going to check with the vet to see what foot that was - it is the one piece of paper I can't find in my folder for her! It will be interesting if it was the right foot. Uncovering the cause for the limp is indeed detective work. (Her recent X-rays and bloodwork were taken a week ago.)

 

I really appreciate your thoughts. I trust the vet, it is a two vet practice and both see Lia, but I also like to gather information and make decisions based on all of that. The experiences of other greyhound owners, for me, is key. Thank you, again!

 

How's Lia doing with the Rimadyl?

[greyhoundlady]

Thank you, Ramonaghan, for asking . I gave her the Rimadyl for four days and she seemed to be handling it well, then had liquid poop. She also became picky with her food - but that is a factor of daily life here, so I can't say I can blame the medication on that. I stopped it and her poop returned to normal so I am not giving it to her anymore. I am continuing with the cosequin and shorter leash walking time for limited exercise. We used to do miles of hiking in hilly woodsy terrain (which I know she misses). To give her 'adventure' we now go for car rides and visit the pet store .

 

The limp isn't gone - not major, and she uses her leg to walk, not holds it up. It is always after she has been laying down and sleeping for a long while. And it does improve once she 'walks it off'. Every time she gets up she downward-dog stretches and then gets on with things. She isn't hesitating with any physical activity - jumping in the car, out of the car, dragging me when she wants to walk in a different direction, etc. I am puzzled, but keeping a keen eye on her.

 

I am not going to continue the Rimadyl, because I really didn't see any improvement with the symptoms (and the bad poop situation).

If the Rimadyl was working would it be within the first few doses or do you think it has to be many days before results are seen, like giving cosequin for joints?

 

I am now trying the 'resting' and limited exercise routine for now. As someone said - it can take a long time for soft muscle injury to heal, if that is what it is. The puzzle is whether we are looking at that, arthritis beginning, or something else. I am watching to see if anything changes/doesn't improve with her and then will go back to the vet and see what else he/they have to say.

 

Just as a side note - she is my extremely shy girl. When I adopted her 4 years ago (she was just 2 years old) she was petrified of everything and spent most of her time in hiding. She has come so far in the last 4 years with me, but still dislikes new situations and stresses easily. The vet visit is a bit of a meltdown for her, but clinging to me she braves it.

 

Thanks again for thinking of her! I always appreciate the opinions and experiences of others!

[ramonaghan]

Sorry to hear it didn't agree with her! Stopping it was definitely the right call. We had a similar experience with Meloxicam; we tried it twice and in both cases Sweep got diarrhea within 3 or 4 days. Then we tried Rimadyl, which agreed with her more but did not resolve her symptoms completely. Our third NSAID, Previcox, was the charm. We have always seen improvement quickly--within 2 or 3 days--so it sounds like Rimadyl was just not a fit for Lia. I think what you're doing as far as limited exercise and other forms of "adventure" is a good way forward, but like us, you might have better luck with another NSAID if you want to try again down the road. You can give 10mg regular Pepcid about 30 minutes before feeding her and giving her the NSAID to reduce the risk of GI upset, but either way I'd probably avoid Rimadyl in the future.

 

I sympathize about the vet visits. Sweep's usually a social butterfly, but she had so many vet visits in our efforts to diagnose her issue that she became very nervous about them (I'm sure she picked up on my anxiety too). She'd get to the door and plant her feet, and then pant heavily through the whole appointment. I wish we could explain to them that we're trying to help.

 

Sweep does the downward dog stretch, usually several times, when she gets up too. I believe Tracy (tbhounds) commented on her doing that in one of the early videos I posted (before we knew where the problem was) and said that probably rules out a shoulder issue. She was right! Did you ever determine if the toe she injured is on the side where she's limping now?

Edited September 19, 2017 by ramonaghan

[greyhoundlady]

Rachel (I read the bottom of your signature ) - thank you. I didn't realize the downward dog stretch would most likely indicate that it wasn't a shoulder injury (per Tracy). That really helps in narrowing things a bit. And because you reminded me of what I meant to do, I just called the vet's office and spoke to the receptionist re which foot of Lia's she was in for last May. They had taken X-rays and determined very bad bruising from her 5 minutes of madness running in the yard.

 

Guess what - Right foot! I think our detective work is starting to unveil something. When I was at the vet at the end of August, multiple X-rays were done of her entire right leg and foot, and there was no indication of anything broken (or worse). Now I am wondering if perhaps it could be the toe injury and she re-hurt (bruised) it in further madness moments.

 

I remember the past toe incident required rest. I don't remember what medication she was put on though, as I would think she had to be. I can't remember side effects. And I really appreciate your suggestion of Previcox and the Pepcid. That is what I will ask the vet for next time.

 

Thanks for working this out with me . Next vet appointment, I can zone in on the foot - and then we can take it from there.

 

I understand your experience with Sweep and getting to the vet's door. Lia gets all excited about the car ride, hops out of the car, looks around at me and then tries to get back in the car. Planting of feet is also involved, and once inside she shakes and vibrates so much it is pitiful to see. The office staff are so wonderful though and one of the younger vets comes out, kneels beside her and whispers sweet nothings in her ears, while slowly petting her. It helps a bit, but she still manages to stink eye me at every moment. Yes, I do wish they were able to understand we are only trying to help them .

[ramonaghan]

Happy to help, and glad our experience might have shed some light on what's going on with Lia. I hope she improves with the Cosequin and a lengthier period of restricted activity, but either way, I think you have a good working theory now.

[tbhounds]

Have you checked for corns?

[greyhoundlady]

Have you checked for corns?

Thanks - Yes - when she was last at the vet, and on their exam table, I asked him to double check for corns as I couldn't see anything. He did and said he couldn't see any either. I am thinking now that the right foot/toe is the thing to focus on. If I don't see any improvement with her limping, I will bring her back to the vet. I am sure right now his recommendation will be what is already being done - leash walk and limited exercise as that was what I did with the original toe injury.

 

It was helpful to know your opinion about the stretching. She always does the downward dog stretches, full out stretch butt in the air, and no discomfort shown. I was glad Rachel pointed that out to me .

Happy to help, and glad our experience might have shed some light on what's going on with Lia. I hope she improves with the Cosequin and a lengthier period of restricted activity, but either way, I think you have a good working theory now.

Thank you again . Keeping fingers and toes crossed .

[Guest goofydog2]

Morrie is currently on 227mg of Previcox once daily for left fore wrist arthritis. Two vets, same practice, felt that the crunchies in that joint were definitely arthritis and wanted to try the Previcox first. Morrie has a pretty strong gut though I do give the pill approx. 30 minutes after breakfast. If, after a 2 week course, there isn't a considerable difference in his limp then films would be called for. Both vets are very aware of my concerns about any issue that might even remotely be big C related after what we all went through with Get Em. I'm going with their thoughts for the time being and we will wait for the Previcox results. He started the med on Saturday and still has a limp, though slightly less notable. I'm keeping fingers, toes and paws crossed. All toes, webs and pads have been checked for anything else amiss with negative results.

 

Sending positive thoughts for your girl that her limp is easily resolved with the correct med. We all know how worrying it can be. Hugs to both of you.

[Walliered]

DaVid and Lady took Gabapentin for several years (like 7) and it really helped them. If you will privately e-mail me and tell me your mailing address and your dog's weight, I will mail you a Thera Paw boot. If you put it on and the limp stops, I would highly suspect a corn (even though you cannot see it)..it may be growing inward. I have several left over from the Greyhounds that the Galgos don't need. And, maybe you need to think about an MRI..much better than radiographs.

[greyhoundlady]

Thank you, Toni, for your positive thoughts and hugs. I am sending the same to you and Morrie. I know the worry. I will be thinking of you both. Fingers, toes and paws crossed too.

[greyhoundlady]

Thanks also, Walliered. That is so kind of you. I will email you if I don't see any improvement, and try that. I am leaning toward the re-hurting of the past injury of the toe. When Lia's moment of madness strikes her, she doesn't even notice what she is running over or what she is twisting in her excitement.

 

I am very touched by everyone's willingness to help!