Bone Cancer

[Guest Beernardo]

Here I go...

 

My Stannis, who is only a little past 7, got diagnosed yesterday with bone cancer. He started limping from his front left leg about a month ago and all this time they suspected some kind of neuritis, but this past week he developed this large mass (about a 2.5" diameter round protuberance) on his shoulder (scapula/humerous joint). The x rays show his humerous being like 2x the normal width.

 

The vet gave me the option to amputate along with chemo, but warned me that that doesn't necessarily means that the cancer won't come back a couple of months later because of the proximity with the torso and the size of the bone affected.

 

I've had him for 5 years now (a young rescue at 2.5 years old) so this is a very difficult choice for me because he's not an old dog. This, being my first experience with bone cancer is keeping Stannis post-amputation quality of life a little foggy for me.

 

I guess hearing stories from members who've been in my situation will shed some more light into what kind of life is waiting for Stannis after his amputation. I was already told that even after the amputation and chemo he'll have only like 4-8 months to live before the cancer shows up again some where else. During that time will he develop some kind of disorders on his right front leg from supporting like 70% of his body weight with it? What's the longest you've stretched the life of your dog after an amputation for osteo?

 

Thanks everybody in advance for your input!

[macoduck]

Did your vet do a chest xray?

[Guest Beernardo]

Not yet, but I'll ask for one to check his lungs

[greysmom]

I would urge to to read through the current and past versions of the Osteo Thread. There is a lot of information to sort through in a short amount of time and the first post has a lot of links to pages where you will find most of what you need.

 

It is difficult to answer you question because there are only generalities - some dogs don't survive though the amp/chemo and some can last years. We just heard of a member who lost her osteo dog after over 5 years - and while it's rare, it's not unheard of - whose original diagnosis was at the same time as my dog, who we lost after nine months post-amp. A couple other members have had dogs last several years, as well. Unfortunately, there's no way to know what is going to happen, you just play the probabilities and hope for the best.

 

For what it's worth, it's quite possible to keep them happy and with a good quality of life following amputation and chemo. The first few weeks are the toughest you will ever experience, but once the initial healing and adaptation are behind them, most dogs get along remarkable well. Front leg amps *are* more problematic, but I'm not sure your vet is correct about the possibility of metastises, or the actuality of cancer returning in the torso. It is true that there is a lt of stress on the remaining front leg, so you need to evaluate if you feel that leg is strong enough to take the strain (no arthritis, or other structural issues). Twiggy, the above-mentioned dog who survived 5 years, was a front leg amp.

 

You need to think of your dog's ability to adapt, and their comfort in a hospital setting because they will be there a LOT if you go the amp/chemo route. Is your home conducive to dealing with a three-legged dog - bedrooms, living spaces, other animals and people, access to outside for potties and play?

 

And also unfortunately, you do need to consider the costs of this treatment, especially if you don't have any type of insurance. It can be upwards of $10,000 for surgery, hospitalization, and followup care, and that's not counting the chemo and weeks of treatment afterwards which can add several more thousand.

 

So it's really a personal choice for you, your family and your dog. We can offer our stories and opinions, but only you can evaluate your dog and situation to make the best choice for everyone involved.

 

I'm so sorry you're having to join this club. Good luck.

[MaryJane]

I recently had this diagnosis for my Adam (7 1/2). He will be going in for his amputation this week. Heartbreaking but, you make your decisions and move forward. My intent is that I will deal with it daily rather than trying to figure it all out beforehand ..

 

As someone already suggested - read the osteo thread (there are about 8 of them). The threads have great information starting with pain medication dosages along with what you can expect after amputation and things you need to do to prepare as well as some stories about people that have done pallative treatment.

 

What really helped with my decision is someone provided videos of their dogs 1 to 2 months after amputation - they were running in the yard.

 

Good luck in whatever you decide.

 

 

The osteo thread is here -- http://forum.greytalk.com/index.php/topic/318606-osteo-thread-part-9/

Edited June 13, 2017 by MaryJane

[MP_the4pack]

My Tanzi is sound asleep in front of me right now. She's is a very happy girl. Several people who met her at Gettysburg commented on her attitude. She lost her leg in Nov, and she finished her last (6th) chemo in April. She's 9.

 

We go back for her next set of xrays and bloodwork Friday. Keeping fingers crossed. The only difference in her before and after amp is she can't go on as long of walks as she used to. But she still chases her 4 legged sister full speed in my back yard. It's an acre so she gets up to full speed back there. Scares the living daylights out of me when she does, but she loves it. And she also plays with stuffies with no mercy. This is my second OS dog. My first had her amp at age 12. She made it 6 months but OS hit another leg. But she was very happy during that time. Physically I had her checked out from top to bottom and Dr Couto said age is just a number. Diamond could physically handle being a tripod.

I wondered if Tanzi could handle being a tripod emotionally. I knew she could do it physically. And Tanzi proved that she could handle anything.

 

During the first two weeks of Diamond's amp surgery, I questioned my decision. Thankfully, after that two week time frame, I felt better and know I did the right thing. When I picked Tanzi up after 4 days at the vets (it was more because the vets was over 3 hrs away, and I couldn't get off work). She left the hospital as if she had always been a tripod.

The first two weeks are rough because they are still learning how to live as a tripod, and they are still uncomfortable from the surgery. And sometimes pain meds will make them anxious. But it seems once they are off pain meds they improve leaps and bounds.

 

Now while I did the amp route for both my OS dogs,(because my biggest fear was them breaking their leg while I was at work all day) many people have gone the palliative care route. Whatever decision you make, just remember, you're making it out of love. And no decision is wrong when decided by love.

Good luck.

[dmdsmoxie]

I posted this the other day and I have no idea if it has been tried on dogs or if Dr. Couto or your vet has an opinion on it.

 

https://www.yahoo.com/beauty/new-cancer-drug-effective-tumors-fda-approved-immediately-164122959.html

[Annette]

Pogo was diagnosed not long after he turned 8 years old. He took us took us on a real roller coaster ride: http://forum.greytalk.com/index.php/topic/315611-pogos-surgery-appointment/page-1?hl=pogo

 

Some dogs breeze through surgery and recovery, some like to turn their parents' hair grey like Pogo did. Once he recovered from surgery he never looked back. I think he ran more as a tripod than as a quadrapod.

 

We had him about 7 1/2 months post diagnosis. We have never regretted having the surgery for him. Nothing could dampen his spirit.

 

You have to take into consideration the personality of your pup and any other ailments that he or she might have. Pogo was healthy as a horse except for the stinkin' cancer. Also, you have to consider your bank account if you do not have insurance for your pup. I know that sounds harsh, but that is reality. We didn't have insurance and even though his carboplatin was paid for as part of the rapamycin study that he was a part of, we drove more than 150 miles one way for treatment. We quit counting at $15,000. We also have not adopted a brother or sister for Miriam because I have been unable to find a job for close to a year.

 

Here is Pogo running in the yard in the Spring after his amputation: http://s81.photobucket.com/user/RhettsGreygal/media/DSCN3725_zpsdv0pdtwh.mp4.html

[Beachbum1]

Please take a look at my thread.

Taylor was a very happy boy, and an active tripod for over 2 years:

 

http://forum.greytalk.com/index.php/topic/311550-my-boy-taylor/?hl=taylor

[cleptogrey]

everyone has their own personal, very personal feelings about cancer. i didn't want my first greyhound to suffer any more than she did when she finally started limping and nothing was helping. but....my vet and alternative did not X-ray her, their machines were down. the vet who did refused to euthanize her on the spot if she saw cancer. to this day i am still angry that i let that kind, gentle, soul suffer at all. but that's me. if i had to make the decision again, you know what i would do.

 

remember what ever decision YOU make, it's the CORRECT ONE! so, sorry to hear that you too are dealing with the big C.

Edited June 13, 2017 by cleptogrey

[tbhounds]

Please see an oncologist-the info you received from your vet is inaccurate-average remission time post amp and 6 rounds of chemo (carboplatin) is 14-18 months not 4-8 as your vet indicated.

[Guest Beernardo]

Thanks everybody for all of your replies. It's been a while since I posted or read the forum posts, so I wasn't aware of the 9 osteo threads. I'll also go through the links that all of you provided. Thanks a lot.

 

My wife and I didn't had the courage to make a decision today but we'll have a second talk tomorrow. Unfortunately the bank account is not looking good so that's definitely one of the factors participating in the decision making, but the big one is Stannis' well being, he's pretty laid back, in fact he got retired very young because he just didn't run fast enough (I'm starting to think he had something going from the day I rescued him), but I just can't figure out how he'll react to the recovery and his 3-legs-life. He does have a minischanuzer companion that is very good on lifting his spirit and make him get up his ass and run skittle but in my patio. Even though they have their own bed, Frida (schnauzer) insists on sharing the bed EVERY night and Stannis just let's her, they are very close.

 

For now he's ok with the pain killers and we are spiking him with his favorite food (he loves mozzarella cheese)

 

Thanks again guys! It's nice to receive this kind of support.

[Charlies_Dad]

I am so very sorry to read of Stannis's diagnosis. It is a very personal decision on which path you choose for your pup. Going amp and chemo, some things to consider as already written are, are there any lung mets, is Stannis a candidate (no other major ailments), age (he is young), finances (it varies depending on different factors), has he seen an Oncologist. Going palliative care is the other alternative and some things to consider are: finances (meds and tests/X-rays), pain management (you must stay on top of this as it's critical), constrained activity for Stannis (risk of a break is higher going this path). The above are just some of the things that come to mind.

 

We went the amp and chemo path for our angel Charlie and he lived 21mths after diagnosis with every day being great until he slowed down in the last few days. He did fantastic on three legs and could outrun our other four legged Grey. Nothing was out of bounds for him and he did not let being a tripawd prevent him from enjoying life. What was key to us was we did not want him in pain and amputation removes the pain altogether. Yes there is healing time, approx two weeks depending on the pup, but they are not in pain and I'm afraid that most do not realize how painful bone cancer is. The cost for us was high as we opted to keep him in 7/24 care for 5 days, we could have opted to take him home after 2 days and that would have saved us $3,000 as it's about $1,000/day at the hospital we went to. The amp itself is not too expensive but the meds, constant monitoring, etc. definitely raises the price. Post amp, the highest costs were blood tests, not the chemo itself. Depending on the vet you go to and the costs in Tijuana, it will vary a lot. Below are some pics of Charlie after amp playing with his duck, he was a crazy stuffy boy and you will see he is only on three legs.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Whichever path you take, we wish you a lot more time with your boy.

Edited June 14, 2017 by Charlies_Dad

[GeorgeofNE]

He'd do just fine without the leg. What you have to decide is how much is it worth to you to have a few more months (and I don't mean strictly financial)? And how much pain (and fear) are you willing to subject him to? Remember: he will not understand what is going on. He will not know why he wakes up with a missing leg--but he will move on and do OK.

 

I have already made my decisions on all these matters, having seen the typical course the disease takes and the typical outcomes. I figure if I stick with greyhounds, I'm bound to end up with an osteo dog sooner or later. For me? No suffering, no putting off the inevitable--because that is what I would want for myself. I would rather have one last bash or outing, my own hamburger off the grill (with a bun and cheese!) and go quietly in the arms of my loved ones versus being chopped, irradiated, and doused with chemicals. All so I could MAYBE live for less than a year longer. This is the one situation where I do try and see it from the dog's point of view. I don't think there is a dog alive who would chose to "fight" bone cancer. Remember: your dog has no choice once you decide. He's not fighting the disease--he has no idea he has it.

 

Only you can make the terrible choices. I'm sure everyone on this board has nothing but empathy for you, and whatever you decide to do, it is what's right for your family.