Spooked Girl, Recommended To Return, Am I Being Selfish To Not?

[denisetanaka]

Hi guys,

 

As some knows, I've been posting lots of questions here, and thank for all the answers that I got, having a first rescue dog is really challenging. Sorry for long post.

 

I adopted a sweet petit girl and now have her for almost 3 months, she is spooked. She is 3 years old.

 

Last time we were looking for a trainer and called the rescue to have some tips, we still have troubles to take her for a walk. We live in downtown area, very noisy, crowded, lot of construction sites, etc and she still trembles and get really nervous. We also try get her used to some parks and she just doesn't sit and enjoy she is always scared.

The rescue told us that we can't change it and probably she is terrified and would be better to send her back and try another dog.

 

Truthfully, I felt offended by this recommendation.Because she made such a huge change, everyday we can see some progress, her personality is showing up little by little. I've been reading some books about fearful dogs, trying to use some techniques, luckily she is very food motivated and now we can lure her to walk with some treats before and after, but sometimes she growls, barks, cries and of course trembles like a Pinscher. We tried adaptil collars as well, no effect.

 

I know that to her every walk must be a big deal, but the problem is taking her to outside, once she is outside her tail goes more up and she gets ok doing her path. I'm trying to make the walks longer little by little so she can get used to, but if we change sides or streets, she knows and gets really annoyed.

 

We told the rescue that sometimes we have to literally drag her to go outside and have a walk, and they told us that we have to wait her come with us, never force anything, but if we don't do it, or try to lure her with food, she would just stay at home and pee and poop in the whole apartment.

 

Despite that, the huge progress is at home, where she is totally comfortable, she loves cuddling, kisses, hugs, she really shows so much affection. She is very obedient and knows some commands in English and Portuguese like getting off our bed, time to eat, wait for cleaning her paws, brush teeth time, etc. I'm very impressed with her intelligence, she is good with mind games for dogs, finding hiding treats, etc.

She doesn't complain when she has to take a bath, she loves massage with some oil for her dandruff, she had really bad dandruff and now she is a gorgeous black shining dog, everybody make compliments about her coat.

 

So the question is, Am I being selfish and torturing my dog trying her to get used to walks? Is true that they have to come with us always, forcing them to go out, is it so bad?

Should I get her returned?

I feel that returning her is so bad, dogs shouldn't be treated like products that you just return and try another one, and we love her so much and feel she is already our family.

 

I've been told and know that a spooked greyhound takes time to build their confidence, maybe 6 months, 1 to even 4 years, sometimes they never change and I am not willing to change her in a magical time, we love her the way she is, I am just worried cause the rescue seemed to be so sure that we should have her returned that it made me think if I am that wrong insisting in a dog that to me is so special.

Edited August 25, 2016 by denisetanaka

[cleptogrey]

check out the posts by sohoMercer. he just went thru the same thing, read all and reflect, good luck.

http://forum.greytalk.com/index.php?app=core&module=search&do=search&fromMainBar=1

 

is it necessary to get to parks? my shy girl, shy not spooky took 4 years to come around.

Edited August 25, 2016 by cleptogrey

[denisetanaka]

check out the posts by sohoMercer. he just went thru the same thing, read all and reflect, good luck.

http://forum.greytalk.com/index.php?app=core&module=search&do=search&fromMainBar=1

 

is it necessary to get to parks? my shy girl, shy not spooky took 4 years to come around.

 

I've read some of sohoMercer post, but Laila doesn't seem in so much trouble as it. It breaks my heart to think returning it.

I tried parks, cause every weekend we like to go for a walk, picnic, etc. Nearby we have such nice National Parks, really calm, so I tried to make her more near to nature, guess I was making her trying too hard.

Edited August 25, 2016 by denisetanaka

[smurfette]

You write that you see changes in her behaviour and that you are willing to work with her on her fears. I would try short walks, always the same route to help her to feel secure.

I think the point are the changes.

[JohnF]

Peggy went through something like this and started to 'go backwards' when she became afraid of an elderly and infirm member of the family.

You can tell by their stare how they are adapting to their new home. At first one of those semi-spooks has a 'hard eye' and you will notice it soften markedly once they start to come around to being OK with you. If that's how your dog is now, then she's home and ought to stay if that's possible or practical.

 

A better understanding of canine 'Calming Signals' definitely helped Peggy to adapt: "Gosh, these humans actually can speak dog!"

Some think its a waste of time and not bound up with the trendiest dog behaviourists, and that's OK.Just see if it works for you: here's a link:

http://theartofdog.com/articles/calming.pdf

 

Once you know what she is actually thinking you may be able to jolly her along.

 

There is no blame in an alternative decision to rehome to the group, but it's going to feel something like grieving. If your dog isn't suited to being an 'only dog, then going back will probably help her. You'd have to view it like you only fostered her for a few weeks.

[Time4ANap]

Routine is everything for these hounds. It does take a while to establish the routine, but if the city is making her that fearful, you are doing a disservice to yourself and the hound. You could end up posting these same issues 2-3 years from now, especially if you get her to a good point and something as simple as a police siren drives by you and she regresses back to the starting point.

 

If she's making true progress, that's a good sign, but if she's not making continuous progress because of the environment, then a return is the right thing to do for both of you. A return is much harder for the human than it is for the hound. They are used to being moved around from track to track, track to far, etc. In the right place, she will flourish, and that's what we all really want for our hounds.

 

If you end up returning her, ask the group to give her new adopters your info for any questions and maybe some future updates. You'll love seeing how great she;s doing in the right place, while also enjoying life with the right hound for your family. Returning is probably the second hardest decision we have to make when we adopt a dog.

 

Good luck with whatever course of action you take.

[MSTmom]

I say keep with it. If you see changes that's great. I've seen slow changes in my grey over the past 10 months and there are still things to work on. I feel like for the first 3 months all he did was follow me around and all we were focused on was getting him comfortable in the house, and around us and new people.

 

Maybe little walks are the key, 5-10 minutes every day and after a week weeks maybe adding some more time. She probably just needs a confidence boost.

[Roo]

Are there any greys near you who can come walking with her?

[sarabz]

We have one grey who adapted immediately to living in the middle of Manhattan. Our second boy gets spooked on trash pickup day because the cans are out on the street versus next to the garage. She loves car rides and going new places; anything out of his routine makes him uncomfortable.

 

I think, as others have said, to create a routine first to help this girl feel safe and secure is the way to go.

[robinw]

I live with a dog who was the most terrified animal I've ever seen. He still has his fears 4.5 years later. Living with Iker has been one of the most rewarding experiences of my life.

 

You're not being selfish. If it's ok, I'd like to share with you some of the things I've learned.

 

1. Keep a sense of humour, you'll need it

2. Patience, patience, patience.

3. Don't force anything.

5. Keep smiling

6. Try to walk her with other dogs when possible.

7. Accept your dog for who she is. You may never be able to take her on good walks, but you still gain a lot by living with a loving family member.

 

Iker is afraid of walks, too. I've done several things to adapt: I walk him during off hours, I walk him on quiet routes and I don't baby him. Eventually I figured out that he was terrified of the route we'd been taking; I changed routes and things improved.

 

The most improvement came after I adopted another dog, and let Iker choose the new family member.

 

Try looking up Debbie Jacobs' website called Fearful Dogs. I had a Skype consultation with her, and you wouldnt believe how helpful she was.

 

http://fearfuldogs.com/

 

Good luck and do whatever you think is right.

Edited August 25, 2016 by robinw

[Guest WildSparkler]

I have a somewhat similar problem, recently my girl had become super spooked and scared during walks. We have had her for almost 2 years now, and this has just appeared over the last few months...so we are still not sure what has caused it (possibly starting around the time of fireworks and big thunderstorms), but sounds similar to your situation right now.

We took her to the vet and decided to try some medications. We have her on both flouxetine (Prozac) and alprazolam (Xanax) right now, which has helped tremendously so far! She will still get spooked at night by certain noises, but we always bring cheese (her absolute favorite thing) and it helps. We are hoping to wean her off the meds eventually when she learns the world is not so big and scary again. So I don't know if that is something you would be interested in trying, but it would be worth a shot. I wasn't huge on the idea of drugging my dog, haha, but many dogs do take those meds and it has helped her so far!

Good luck! I know the struggle! You feel so bad when you're only trying to make sure they go to the bathroom!

[greysmom]

So I think I'm confused a bit. Let me see if I understand you:

 

1) She was very fearful and anxious all the time in the beginning, but has since made great changes as long as she's in her apartment with her people.

2) She is much less anxious on walks once you finally get her out the door.

3) Her main source of anxiousness right now seems to be associated with "getting ready" to go for a walk.

 

>>Does she exhibit anxiousness in any other part of her life?

 

>>Once you get home from a walk does she settle down quickly or does it take a long time?

 

>>Does she eat readily at mealtimes?

 

>>Will she pee and poop while you are out walking? Is she nervous *during* the walk anymore? Is there a difference if you're walking downtown or out at a park?

 

>>Does she like meeting people? Is there a difference of you're out or if you're in your apartment?

 

If it's just really the "going out" part, then you can easily do classic counter conditioning training to help her get through this and over it. Especially if she likes people and is OK walking around downtown once you get there. The fact that she will take treats from you while she's out leads me to believe she can eventually be fine living with you in the city. BUT you have to be MUCH MUCH more patient with her. It can take, as you said, years for a more timid dog to finally get relaxed and come all the way out of their shell.

 

No, of course you don't want to force her to do something she doesn't want to do, but there are things that can help her:

>Praise praise praise and lots of super tasty treats

>Walk at off hours or times when it's quieter

>Stick to a strict schedule for mealtimes and walks - do it at the same time every day (once you figure out the best time)

>Walk with a confident buddy - if she's fine with other breeds it doesn't have to be a greyhound

>Take her away from the streets for weekly exercise - there are some great dog parks in Seattle, but only if you are confident she will come to you once she's off leash, otherwise, stick to walks (she doesn't *have* to run!)

 

If however, she a really anxious during walks, very timid, hates meeting people, spooks at the slightest noise, won't take a treat, doesn't care if you praise her, and she has difficulty going potty then you may need to consider how happy *she* is being a city dog. In SoHoMercer's thread, his dog was clearly miserable, right from the beginning, and he never got better. Every walk, every venture outside, was like torture for both of them. And he was not getting better with time and familiarity, he was getting worse.

 

Only you can ultimately make the judgement call about whether your girl would be happier out of the city. This isn't the same as returning a product. A toaster doesn't care if it's on a counter in a city apartment or one in the suburbs. It functions the same wherever it's located. But sometimes a dog just doesn't have the temperment for city life. Yours *may* be one of them. Fortunately there are plenty of greyhounds that are fine there - as SoHoMercer found out when his perect hound came into the adoption kennel just as he was returning Mercer.

 

Good luck!

[GeorgeofNE]

I personally think that someone who has never had a greyhound before should not have a spook, and that a spook in the city MUST be torture for the dog.

 

There are plenty of homes that are NOT in the city with people who have lots of experience with spooky hounds. And there are plenty of dogs who aren't spooks. Why would you be "offended" at the group's suggestion? They have the dog's best interest in mind. It's not a criticism of YOU. They clearly made a mistake placing that dog in a city environment.

 

However, if you don't WANT to return her, don't. Just be prepared. She may never be happy outside. Or she may make huge strides and end up being perfectly fine--but the longer you keep her, the harder it is for both of you if ultimately it doesn't work out.

[Guest Wasserbuffel]

I personally think that someone who has never had a greyhound before should not have a spook, and that a spook in the city MUST be torture for the dog.

 

There are plenty of homes that are NOT in the city with people who have lots of experience with spooky hounds. And there are plenty of dogs who aren't spooks. Why would you be "offended" at the group's suggestion? They have the dog's best interest in mind. It's not a criticism of YOU. They clearly made a mistake placing that dog in a city environment.

 

However, if you don't WANT to return her, don't. Just be prepared. She may never be happy outside. Or she may make huge strides and end up being perfectly fine--but the longer you keep her, the harder it is for both of you if ultimately it doesn't work out.

 

I agree with this. Earlier this year the group I volunteer with made a similar mistake. We placed a dog in a home that had wood floors almost throughout. We thought she would adapt, as the vast majority do, but she simply could not.

 

The difference in her demeanor when I brought her to my place from theirs was striking and immediate. You wouldn't have taken her for the same dog. She's now been re-adopted to a family with a fully carpeted home, and she was so much more at ease there that she lost her thunder phobia and even learned to navigate the stairs within a week.

 

We try our best, but sometimes we do make mistakes. Like GeorgeofNE, it's not a criticism of you if the dog can't handle the environment.

[denisetanaka]

So I think I'm confused a bit. Let me see if I understand you:

 

1) She was very fearful and anxious all the time in the beginning, but has since made great changes as long as she's in her apartment with her people.

2) She is much less anxious on walks once you finally get her out the door.

3) Her main source of anxiousness right now seems to be associated with "getting ready" to go for a walk.

 

>>Does she exhibit anxiousness in any other part of her life?

 

>>Once you get home from a walk does she settle down quickly or does it take a long time?

 

>>Does she eat readily at mealtimes?

 

>>Will she pee and poop while you are out walking? Is she nervous *during* the walk anymore? Is there a difference if you're walking downtown or out at a park?

 

>>Does she like meeting people? Is there a difference of you're out or if you're in your apartment?

 

If it's just really the "going out" part, then you can easily do classic counter conditioning training to help her get through this and over it. Especially if she likes people and is OK walking around downtown once you get there. The fact that she will take treats from you while she's out leads me to believe she can eventually be fine living with you in the city. BUT you have to be MUCH MUCH more patient with her. It can take, as you said, years for a more timid dog to finally get relaxed and come all the way out of their shell.

 

No, of course you don't want to force her to do something she doesn't want to do, but there are things that can help her:

>Praise praise praise and lots of super tasty treats

>Walk at off hours or times when it's quieter

>Stick to a strict schedule for mealtimes and walks - do it at the same time every day (once you figure out the best time)

>Walk with a confident buddy - if she's fine with other breeds it doesn't have to be a greyhound

>Take her away from the streets for weekly exercise - there are some great dog parks in Seattle, but only if you are confident she will come to you once she's off leash, otherwise, stick to walks (she doesn't *have* to run!)

 

If however, she a really anxious during walks, very timid, hates meeting people, spooks at the slightest noise, won't take a treat, doesn't care if you praise her, and she has difficulty going potty then you may need to consider how happy *she* is being a city dog. In SoHoMercer's thread, his dog was clearly miserable, right from the beginning, and he never got better. Every walk, every venture outside, was like torture for both of them. And he was not getting better with time and familiarity, he was getting worse.

 

Only you can ultimately make the judgement call about whether your girl would be happier out of the city. This isn't the same as returning a product. A toaster doesn't care if it's on a counter in a city apartment or one in the suburbs. It functions the same wherever it's located. But sometimes a dog just doesn't have the temperment for city life. Yours *may* be one of them. Fortunately there are plenty of greyhounds that are fine there - as SoHoMercer found out when his perect hound came into the adoption kennel just as he was returning Mercer.

 

Good luck!

Hi Greysmom,

 

Yes, her main source of anxiousness right now is "getting ready" to go for a walk. During the walks she does better, bus, truck, even sirens she is now ok, she sometimes get scared with some sounds that she had never heard before, e.g. last time was a car scraping the wheel in the kurb. But once she hears that different sound, next time she doesn't care anymore.

 

Answering:

>>Does she exhibit anxiousness in any other part of her life?

She was off track since January 2016, so in the rescue they didn’t know much information about her, I think she was 3 or 4 months with them, she was before in FL. All they knew is that she is: fearful, walk good on leash, had lots of diarrhea, curious and good in puzzle games.

 

>>Once you get home from a walk does she settle down quickly or does it take a long time?

After a walk we used to give her meals to associate walking as good thing. She settles great after, usually she eats and plays with us.

 

>>Does she eat readily at mealtimes?

Always, she comes running to her mealtimes and very happy.

 

>>Will she pee and poop while you are out walking? Is she nervous *during* the walk anymore? Is there a difference if you're walking downtown or out at a park?

Yes, Now we are trying to train her peeing and pooping in the right place outside (cause she used to enjoy peeing in the middle of street), she is doing great, we say the word: pee, or go potty and she does, we say: Good girl. She is doing great with this.

She gets nervous during the walk if she hears something unknown which is pretty common here.

She does better walking in the 2 blocks that she is used to, if we try to change one street she gets anxious.

Parks like National parks, really calm she does good, but she never go down or sit, she seems to be always looking for the exit, for the car, which she loves.

Parks, like dog parks or more crowded parks she gets anxious and looking for an exit as well.

She does not accept treat/water outside home, what makes difficult walking for long in a park.

 

>>Does she like meeting people? Is there a difference of you're out or if you're in your apartment?

It is a little bit weird, there are days that she is really fearful of people, other days doesn’t, sometimes she can walk through a crowded place ok, others days doesn’t. If the person stays for a while near her she is ok. We use a glove leash with the message: “Approach slowly I’m fearful” and this has improved the reaction with people. They are more gentle meeting her and respects more her space.

 

Thanks for the post, it’s good to read good tips.

 

I don’t want to return her, cause I see her getting better each day, of course there are some days I don’t know why she seems to step back all the progress and others that she impress me with a confident behavior.

But the trembling when we say “ Let’s go for a walk’ is really scary. Her neck trembles so much until getting outside. What makes me worried about her well-being with us.

Edited August 27, 2016 by denisetanaka

[denisetanaka]

 

I agree with this. Earlier this year the group I volunteer with made a similar mistake. We placed a dog in a home that had wood floors almost throughout. We thought she would adapt, as the vast majority do, but she simply could not.

 

The difference in her demeanor when I brought her to my place from theirs was striking and immediate. You wouldn't have taken her for the same dog. She's now been re-adopted to a family with a fully carpeted home, and she was so much more at ease there that she lost her thunder phobia and even learned to navigate the stairs within a week.

 

We try our best, but sometimes we do make mistakes. Like GeorgeofNE, it's not a criticism of you if the dog can't handle the environment.

 

 

I personally think that someone who has never had a greyhound before should not have a spook, and that a spook in the city MUST be torture for the dog.

 

There are plenty of homes that are NOT in the city with people who have lots of experience with spooky hounds. And there are plenty of dogs who aren't spooks. Why would you be "offended" at the group's suggestion? They have the dog's best interest in mind. It's not a criticism of YOU. They clearly made a mistake placing that dog in a city environment.

 

However, if you don't WANT to return her, don't. Just be prepared. She may never be happy outside. Or she may make huge strides and end up being perfectly fine--but the longer you keep her, the harder it is for both of you if ultimately it doesn't work out.

 

We picked Laila because she was a better fit for an appartment, we saw couple of females, but she was the only one to show some curiosity with us, that's why we picked her. But the rescue warned us it would be a long way for her rehabilitation.

I am patient and I know it's though way, but she did a huge change, that's my hope. If she get worst and worst, yes we definitely would think about returning, unfortunately.

 

Anyway I will keep observing and trying, thanks for all the replies !

[GreyTzu]

Danger was our third spook. This is what I have learned after having 3 spooks come through our home.

 

After 2 and a half years, Danger just started coming into the bedroom. My advise is to just go about your life normally and do what you need to do with her.

True spooks are always going to be spooks and you will not change that. It's possible to help a spook cope better, but a true spook is a true spook. That, in my opinion, it the hardest realization for someone who adopts a true spook to accept.

Danger will still run and duck when I walk over to him with his food bowl. If Kevin and I are walking around and laughing "too" loud, he still weirds out.

When he came home, we quickly found out hard he did not like "hands in the air" type of behavior. So anytime we approached him we did a lot of "jazz hands" and now, for the most part, he is fine with hands in the air.

There are times when I reach out to pet him and he will duck, still to this day. When I take off his muzzle from a potty trip, he ducks as if I am going to beat him. Because you know, I beat my dogs often. Anyway, I just ignore it and do what I need to do. Sometime, talking in a loud funny voice will weird him out and again I do it anyway. I frequently tell him as he is ducking what a dork he is, in that funny voice and he just looks at me. Dork!

It was a year before he would take a treat from my hand. And now, some times he still won't take them, preferring to duck in the corner and wait until I toss it to him. Sometimes when he refuses to take it from my hand, I don't give it to him. But that really is not a reward/punishment type of method from me, more of just whatever. Sometimes I will tell him well, screw it if you won't take it from my hand today. Of course, then he stand there with that pitiful look on his face and his eyes well up. What a dork he is.

Danger gets 3 Stress Free Calmplex tabs a day from Springtime. Do they make a difference? I'm not sure, but I think so. Do they make him "normal?" Not on your life. He is a spook and absolutely will be a spook forever.

Danger is not crated at all. He loves the cats and 'Tzus. He totally does want loving and attention, but who knows why, some times he freaks out and sometimes he is in the mix with the other dogs demanding attention. Once again, a true spook is a true spook is a true spook...

And he LOVES LOVES LOVES our morning walks! He gets the most excited of all the dogs when I grab the leashes. Yet, he prefers to wear his "cloak of invisibility" when we walk. Odd movements, read cats and squirrels on the road ahead will get him attention and he starts to shy away bit. We just walk on, being of course aware of him and his movement, while talking to him in calm voice.

When Danger got hurt while we were in Key West almost 2 years ago, I had this very same conversation with our pet sitter over the phone. She is a very experienced animal person and a Vet Tech. I have no fears or concerns leaving my animals in her care. But she needed to take Danger in for stitches. I told her to do what she needed to do, but keep in mind that if he gets loose, he will not be caught. She told me after that I had expressed my concern very well and at that point she understood what I meant. When we picked up Danger, she had his leash/harness with her at the clinic and a huge note on his cage stating how and where he was to be walked!

I do use the harness/safety strap set-up when I walk him. I know that if he ever gets loose, he will never be caught. His leash is attached to the collar and the collar and harness are attached by a safety strap.

This is Dylan and my leash set-up:






This is my "Freak on a Leash" Danger:

 

 

 

I burped up the old thread so you can read it and try to glean anything helpful. My advice is to be patient, accept your dog, love her, and don't give up. If you choose to return her, great. There is no shame in returning a dog that is not a good fit into your home and lifestyle. Also, since you live in Seattle,try talking to Lori at A Dogs' Dream. She is a greyhound owner with a lot of good information. Good luck and keep us in the loop. Remember we are here to support you and your dog.

[greysmom]

I really don't think the OPs dog is a spook, just very timid and a bit anxious in her new situation.

 

A true spook is unable to calm themselves once they get worked up. They are, in my opinion, most likely a high functioning autistic child. They do repetitive behaviors, don't respond to communication attempts, often don't respond to their name, have trouble relating to other dogs, and the schedule rules all, among other behaviors.

 

The OPs girl *is* adapting, albeit slowly, and does seem to be handling city life OK at this point. I think she will be fine if the OPS gives her the time to adjust, and enough patient help to let her know she will be fine.