First Dog+Post: Finding The Right Food

[Guest stereosilence]

I'm a first time dog owner and my wife (who grew up with a dog) and I got Eugene back in August 2015. He will be 3 yo. in April. So far, it has been a great experience and Eugene is a wonderful dog. I don't think I would have survived some of the stories I have read on this forum. However, there are still a few issues and they seem like they are related to his food. I'm hoping that if we can get him on just the right thing, maybe they will clear up.

 

We started him on ULTRA dog food and he had bio-warfare level farts every few minutes and loose stools. We eventually realized it wasn't due to nervousness with adjusting to his new home and switched him to TOTW High Prairie to cut out the grains. He immediately perked up and had more energy and his stools firmed up and his gas is less frequently and doesn't melt my face off. His first stools are now pretty firm but get looser the more he poops until they are sometimes gelatinous or liquidy. Also, about that time he started exhibiting some separation anxiety. It only happens maybe 1 in 4 times we leave and it isn't that bad, but sometimes he drags stuff around the house (he is a shoe collector) but other times he chews and destroys objects left within his reach. We have tried the standard things for SA with varied success. Exercise works best but wearing him out isn't practical everything we need to leave the house.

 

Otherwise, sometimes he licks near his butt and I think it is because he gets poop crusted onto his anus (probably from the looseness of his stools). I just clean it up with a wet wipe or wet paper towel (he DOES NOT approve of this) and it seems to give him relief for a week or two.

 

Being very new to this, are there certain brands of food that seem to work well for greyhounds? I thought maybe if we tried a couple of different kinds, maybe one would work really well. Some people have said that feeding high protein can make them have too much energy (hence the SA). Is there perhaps a grain free food that wouldn't be high energy?

 

We give him monthly worm medicine and flea spray.

 

Thanks in advance for your suggestions.

[NeedlenoseJake]

bio-warfare level farts

 

melt my face off.

 

(he DOES NOT approve of this)

First off... for the above comments, been there and think these are PERFECT ways to describe them! Are you muzzling him when you clean his bottom? I would! Also, I think to some extent this is normal unless it's happening all the time or seems to bother them. Jake "cleans" himself every once in awhile and I just look away and try to ignore the sounds

 

People with much more experience than me will probably chime in here, but if you want to stick with a grain-free food, we fed Costco's Nature's Domain food for awhile and that seemed to be pretty good. Also, some people here swear by IAMS green bag for upset stomachs (not grain free).

 

Do you have any photos of the little poop monster?

Edited January 20, 2016 by NeedlenoseJake

[Remolacha]

You say his first poop is pretty firm, but gets loose later. Is this on walks? Because, it is normal if they poop more than once on a walk for the later output to be softer/looser. Have you tried adding either canned pumpkin or yogurt to his food? That can help with the gas and poop, but it doesn't always work. I prefer the grain free foods, but some of the high end brands can be too rich.

 

I've never had a dog with SA, so can't help you there

[Guest stereosilence]

Are you muzzling him when you clean his bottom?

I have never had to muzzle him (although the adoption place gave me one). I guess he knows who pours the kibbles around here. He pretty much submits to anything if I try hard enough. The funny thing is he won't jump out of the bathtub for me, but my wife has to wrestle him once he is in there . I have considered muzzling him when we leave, but I kind of think he wouldn't like it (but he couldn't chew stuff). I don't have a crate for him (and haven't really needed it), but the muzzle is my next more serious solution.

 

 

 

You say his first poop is pretty firm, but gets loose later. Is this on walks? Because, it is normal if they poop more than once on a walk for the later output to be softer/looser. Have you tried adding either canned pumpkin or yogurt to his food?

Yes, I mean on walks or outings where he poops consecutively. He normally saves it up and goes 2-3 times in the morning and is set for the day. I think we did try the yogurt/pumpkin thing when we thought he ate something that might harm him, but haven't other than that.

 

I think I may order some Iams Green bag. If nothing else, it is much cheaper than TOTW.

 

I'll try to find a picture or take one soon.

[greysmom]

Many people have had issues with TOTW in general, so that's not surprising.

 

Greyhounds generally do not do well with extremely high protein foods - gas, soft stools, etc. You want to stick around 20-25% and I always say start off on the lower end. Unless your dog is doing athletic sports or is training particularly hard, there's no need for them to have that much protein. Is there a reason other than your own preference that you are doing grain free?? The right carb source in a food can add needed fiber to a dog's diet, which it sounds like your boy needs, so you might consider one with oatmeal, chickpea, or sweet potato. The Iams Green Bag that many have success with has a high volume of beet pulp, which is an insoluable fiber used in livestock feeds. You can also buy it by the (very large) bag at feed stores if you want to mix it in yourself.

 

Adding a probiotic can help, and there are many out there to choose from. I use a product called "Digestive Enzymes" and I order it from Amazon. Pumpkin can work or it can backfire. In some greyhounds it actually causes loose stools. Safer to use sweet potato.

 

As far as the SA goes, muzzling will help with his destructive chewing. Do not believe him when he says it's killing him and he won't wear it. Every retired racing greyhound is *very* familiar with a plastic kennel muzzle, and is quite used to wearing one! You can also do a search in the Training and Behavior section here on GT for the many threads about SA.

[Hubcitypam]

He might be marking with poo on walks and conjuring up poo that really doesn't need to come out. Poodle (the poodle) used to do that after he'd run out of pee. Yogurt and pumpkin never did a thing for my continually runny poo guy Rex, but Iams did. Not sure where you are but Iams is available at most grocery stores. IMO greys without health problems do best on mid range foods.

Is there a way you could restrict him with baby gates and a fluffy bed (kitchen)? Sometimes that works.

Edited January 21, 2016 by Hubcitypam

[3greytjoys]

Welcome to GreyTalk!

 

Ideally. dogs' stools should be well-formed and easy for dog to eliminate (vs. dog struggling to expel rock solid stools). It's fairly common for initial stools to be better formed than say a third elimination within the same walk. (Third stool elimination hasn't been in dog's system as long, but even a third stool should not be diarrhea.)

 

If Eugene appears a little food sensitive, a simple ingredient kibble might work well (e.g., one meat protein source + carb.). Please read ingredient labels and avoid corn products and by-products. A neutral dog food review site can help determine a healthy food selection. Here's a free site: http://www.dogfoodadvisor.com/best-dog-foods/best-dry-dog-foods/

 

Too rapid a food transition can cause digestive upset. Some kibble manufacturers suggest a slow 3-4 week food transition -- slowly decreasing old food while adding small amounts of new food. Too many food switches are tough on Greyhounds, try give one food several months to evaluate.

 

Assuming Eugene's monthly wormer is actually a heartworm preventative like Heartgard Plus(?). If so, it's important to keep him on that monthly. That said, it doesn't correct infestations of other existing worms/parasites. He should have a fecal test done if it's been a while since his last fecal. Some worms (hookworms, etc.) can be very difficult to eliminate, and certain growth stages may not have shown up on an initial fecal test. Worms, parasites (giardia, etc.) can cause loose, smelly stools/gas no matter what food the dog is eating. Eugene's semi-anxiety might be related to his bowel urgency needs. Good to have a vet check his anal glands, especially since he's licking that area. Some dogs need their anal glands expressed manually.

 

If possible, consider trying to avoid flea sprays or dips on Greyhounds. Greys can be especially sensitive to those chemicals. Most Greyhounds tolerate "Advantage" (for fleas) or "Frontline" (fleas+ticks). Both are topical drop solutions to dab near base of neck (between shoulder blades).

 

Re: your departures: I'd suggest dog proofing all rooms in which Eugene has access (similar to child-proofing for an extra, extra tall toddler). If you don't have a baby-gate, close all bedroom and closet doors, remove food from kitchen counters etc. If cabinet handles or other hook-like items are not within Eugene's access, I agree to place his Greyhound turn-out muzzle on (leaving about 1" space between his nose + muzzle).

 

Good luck, and please let us know how things go for Eugene.

Edited January 21, 2016 by 3greytjoys

[Hubcitypam]

If Eugene appears a little food sensitive, a simple ingredient kibble might work well (e.g., one meat protein source + carb.). Please read ingredient labels and avoid corn products and by-products. A neutral dog food review site can help determine a healthy food selection. Here's a free site: http://www.dogfoodadvisor.com/best-dog-foods/best-dry-dog-foods/

Oddly enough some of the above cited Dogfoodadvisors highest rated foods do, in fact, contain grain. Wysong and Merrick Classic (perhaps others) in their five star highest level and Avoderm, Castor and Pollux, Nutro Ultra and others in the four star realm. Grain is not necessarily the enemy for all dogs...it's just the new buzzword. Billions of dogs lived happily with grain in their diets for a very long time before "grain free" came into being around a decade or less ago. If your dog needs a certain food due to health issues that is another issue.

[smurfette]

In my experience greyhounds often react to stress with poop issues. I have a friend whose girl has problems with grains, beef... almost everything. Her mom (my friend) is a wonderful woman but she is always worried about things and a very high strung personality. Her grey reacted on that with loose poop, gas, loosing weight. She does everything for the dog but only rearranging her own priorities help the girl... she says it's the new dog food. I say it's her being more calm.

What I wanted to say is. Stay with one food he seems to react well to and let him get used to his new surroundings. Give him time and your patience. Some issues will resolve themselves with enough time.

 

I skip chemical treatments as much as possible and give a teaspoon full of grated coconut daily on their dinner. The grates penetrate the worm's vitreous and prevent the worms from multiply. I do this for a couple of years and never had worm issues with my dogs.

[Remolacha]

Oddly enough some of the above cited Dogfoodadvisors highest rated foods do, in fact, contain grain. Wysong and Merrick Classic (perhaps others) in their five star highest level and Avoderm, Castor and Pollux, Nutro Ultra and others in the four star realm. Grain is not necessarily the enemy for all dogs...it's just the new buzzword. Billions of dogs lived happily with grain in their diets for a very long time before "grain free" came into being around a decade or less ago. If your dog needs a certain food due to health issues that is another issue.

I use "grain free" as a convenient short cut, and really need to stop All dry dog foods have some sort of carb, and tapioca or pea aren't necessarily better than wheat or rice. The only thing I would avoid is corn and any food that has grain/carb as the first ingredient or two. Most of my dogs have done well on food with rice or oats, when I was feeding dry.

[NeedlenoseJake]

. The funny thing is he won't jump out of the bathtub for me, but my wife has to wrestle him once he is in there .

Just curious, is this when you wipe his bottom or for a true bath? Just FYI they only need baths maybe 2-4 times a year at most.

[Guest stereosilence]

We have had him about 5 months and he has acclimated wonderfully. He rarely gets into anything, it is just annoying when he does. So far, keeping things out of his way and closing bedrooms doors has mostly handled the problem. I'm not too worried about it, just thinking that maybe a change of diet will help him a tad.

 

I switched to TOTW because he didn't do well on the ULTRA stuff we had and people said sometimes the grains give them trouble. I ordered some of the green bag, it is 66% of the price of TOTW so that would be nice if he likes that. I took him for a walk today and the first poop was nice and firm while the second poop was formless mud.

 

I don't think our dog would be able to live in the house if we only bathed him 2-4 times a year. He gets smelly pretty quick and the dog parks and places we go to let him run tend to get muddy. Plus, the organic oatmeal shampoo seems to help his dandruff that he gets when he gets stressed. I don't wipe his butt when he gets a bath. I do it when it seems to be bothering him. He was liking his haunches multiple times a day and I gave him a wiping and he hasn't been doing it at all for the last 2-3 days.

 

Thanks for all the advice. Hopefully he will do well on the green bag and we can start using his muzzle if he ruins more stuff.

 

Here is a photo, I don't know how to preview, so it may turn out huge...

I'm told he is large for a greyhound, around 70 lbs.

[Brandiandwe]

Hi there. One question I'd ask is how much you're feeding him. Mine get the runs when they've been fed too much (looking at you DH!) as well as when they have multiple poops. I'd also be checking for worms just in case.

 

as for the rest, we make sure ours have lots of stuff to play with in their toy basket, but we also muzzle our top dog. None of the others ever bothers him, but he has destroyed three remote controls, several books and two pairs of shoes....

[suebero]

Awww he is so cute!

[lukasmom]

Look into Olewo carrots. Works wonders on soft poop and helps calm the digestion system. There are many posts on greyt talk about how it has helped so many hounds.

[3greytjoys]

Eugene is a handsome boy!

 

If thinking long-term, please keep in mind there's a reason Iams is so cheap.

 

Iams Proactive Health (aka: "green bag") is made with lower quality, undesired ingredients including corn, and by-products.

(Just because a dog poops solid poops does not mean their food is desired quality for optimal or average life health.)

 

Below is a snippet re: a few (of several) of it's controversial ingredients per Dog Food Advisor (link in post #7).

Ingredients are listed on dog food labels in order of quantity before cooking.

Iams Proactive Health Adult Large Breed

Ingredients: Chicken, corn meal, ground whole grain sorghum, chicken by-product meal, etc.

 

The first ingredient is chicken. Although a quality item, raw chicken contains about 80% water. After cooking, most of that moisture is lost, reducing the meat content to just a fraction of its original weight.

After processing, this item would account for a smaller part of the total content of the finished product.

 

The second ingredient is cornmeal, a coarsely ground flour made from dried corn. Corn is an inexpensive and controversial cereal grain of only modest nutritional value to a dog.

We do not consider corn a preferred component in any dog food.

 

The third ingredient is sorghum. Sorghum (milo) is a starchy cereal grain with a nutrient profile similar to corn.

 

The fourth ingredient is chicken by-product meal, a dry rendered product of slaughterhouse waste. It’s made from what’s left of a slaughtered chicken after all the prime cuts have been removed.

In addition to organs (the nourishing part), this stuff can contain almost anything — feet, beaks, undeveloped eggs — anything except quality skeletal muscle (conventional meat).

 

End snippet.

 

Side note: General recommendation for retired racing Greyhounds' healthy pet weight is being able to see the last two ribs, and feel the third to last rib. Seeing hip points is desirable. It usually equates to about 3-5 pounds above the Greyhound's racing weight.

Edited January 25, 2016 by 3greytjoys

[Hubcitypam]

Hey - my neighbors pay good money for by products for human consumption - including pork lips and chicken feet! One of them accidently wandered into an auction up the road in the "Little Saigon" district where they were auctioning off parts of a whole hog. Some of the most spirited bidding was for the rectum. Go figure.

 

Three to five pounds over racing weight can be a tricky concept as some kennels run their dogs much leaner than others...and three to five pounds is a whole lot different on a girlhound that raced at 58# than on a dog like my Harley that raced at 84#.

Eugene is one beautiful hound. Love green on a fawn hound.

[Guest normaandburrell]

Our Iceman would get into things when we were gone. I was giving him 2 1/2 hours of exercise a day. His chewing seemed to be more curiosity and maybe boredom.

So I began to think maybe he needed an intellectual challenge. I took him to obedience classes. Now, for the most part, he will only steal and chew items that smell like food.

[Guest stereosilence]

3greytjoys, what kind of food do you think is preferable? I did hear people say that corn is generally worth avoiding and I was surprised that it was in the Iams green bag 'cause everybody recommended that. I would tend to think that if their stomachs are handling it and there aren't apparent health issues, it is ok. I have started mixing green bag into my TOTW and so far he has started farting some more. I assume this is normal when switching food anyway, but his poops are staying solid. Honestly, I would like to be spending less than $60/mo on food for him.

 

Like I said, he has been a GREAT dog. Very well behaved in general. We have been muzzling him when we leave and he doesn't seem to mind it and, of course, no more stuff is chewed!

 

The man running the adoption place said to feed him around 4 cups a day. That seems to be pretty close. He doesn't always eat it all every day. Since I added in the Iams he was been hoovering it down though. I assume that is a good sign.

 

As to butt licking (I can't remember if I was talking about that here), I did a close inspection an he has what looks like a scrape just above his anus. I have no idea how he could have gotten that. I'll probably put some liquid bandage or vaseline on it and see if it gives him some relief.

 

Obedience training might be fun, but we have a 1 month old baby right now. Do you have to continue in training to keep him satisfied or has it been a "one and done" type thing in your experience, normaandburrel?

 

Does anybody have suggestions for food that is 1) good for sensitive stomachs, 2) corn free, 3) not "high protein", and 4) less than $1.5 per pound?

[JohnF]

Allaboutdogfood.com is our feed bible over here in the UK. Many brands listed in it are available on the other side of the pond so you could pick up some valuable insights, not least from the feeding calculator if you adjust currencies.

 

I had to take Peggy off TOTW High Priaire because I think they changed the recipe. As a dog with a sensitive stomach, who sometimes demands expensive vet trips, I have found that getting the food right actually saves money by not having to go to the vet! I've settled on a mix of 70% Barking Heads 'Golden Years' kibble (a high mid range one that scores 3.9 out of 5), 20% of Canagan 'Country Game' (scores 4.6/5 and is like how TOTW was before they spoit it), and then top it with a Forthglade all beef grain and additive free wet food. (5/5 and far to expensive to feed a lot of.) I also give the Canagan as treats with a little PB.

 

Every dog is different and she was on Iam's Green Bag for several months, but the bad gas never went away.

[Guest stereosilence]

Yeah, I'm a little torn right now because he seems to be doing great on TOTW. The gas went away, his stools are apparently the correct firmness, and he is energetic. Since we have been muzzling him (which he doesn't seem to mind), all has been good. However, I'm going him 50/50 green bag/TOTW and his poops are still pretty firm first thing. So, I'll probably carry on at least a bag or two and see how he handles it. Maybe I'll just stick with TOTW since he was doing fine there and the muzzle fixes the "side effects" of the chewing. I wish we didn't have to muzzle him. He really seems to like raw hides so I feel like I'm taking away all possible entertainment while we are gone.

[ramonaghan]

Does anybody have suggestions for food that is 1) good for sensitive stomachs, 2) corn free, 3) not "high protein", and 4) less than $1.5 per pound?

 

We are currently transitioning Sweep from Iams Green Bag to Fromm's Adult Classic. I felt like she'd gained weight on the Iams even though she only eats 2 cups a day and gets a fair amount of exercise (3 walks a day and zoomies when she wants), so I wanted to see if switching to corn-free made any difference. Fromm is a family company and has never had a recall, they're priced reasonably, and I like their ingredients. The kind I'm giving includes the beet pulp that's in Iams and has probiotics as well. So far, poops are pretty much the same, but she is a little gassy, which I'm hoping will go away once she's fully switched over. She's already looking leaner. The only downside is I have to buy Fromm's online or from local specialty pet supply places, but that's not a huge deal.

 

ETA: I am feeding their lowest-tier, "Classics" line, but they have "Gold" and "Four-Star" levels too: http://frommfamily.com/. I just went for the one with the beet pulp.

Edited January 26, 2016 by ramonaghan

[Guest Jordan33]

I stumbled upon thetruthaboutpetfood.com, which is very upfront about where companies source ingredients, where the food is made, and what is considered the best pet food for dogs and some for cats too. Unfortunately, quality pet food is going to be expensive, but she does list a better "bargain brand" for those who need something cheaper.

[cleptogrey]

before you go crazy changing foods, just reduce it a tad. even 1/4-1/2 cup of over feeding daily has a great impact on stool output. you will be surprised, then if a slight reduction doesn't help, then consider a less rich food or a different protein or carb base. but s-l-o-w and easy with the changes.

 

what's the calorie/fat/protein count in the food currently being fed and the amount?? all of this has an impact on the dog as well as residual bugs from life on the track in their intensities . does the poop have a rancid odor? that can be the sign of bacteria...only a vet will know.

[Guest Jordan33]

I'm currently feeding 1/4 cup of Honest Kitchen wet mixed with 1 cup of Wysong dry adult and Adrien and her body seem to like them! So glad. And both companies will ship direct and offer coupons!