Another Trazadone Question

[Busderpuddle]

Ruby has been on Trazadone for a couple of months now and I thought it was helping, but with the recent fireworks, I would say it isn't. Every night someone has shot off some loud booms, and she shakes, trembles, runs to her crate, etc. Tonight she took off after hearing one loud pop, and ran to the front bedroom, where she never goes. When I went to get her, she peed a bit on the floor, like the submissive peeing I have seen in other dogs. I have not and was not yelling at her or scaring her in any way. I was talking to her calmly and trying to get her to come lay in her crate in the other room, which is what she normally does.

She instead came out to the living room and laid on her bed there, shaking violently and panting. At this point, I feel like there is no reason to continue the Trazadone since it is not helping at all. Was the peeing from being terrified or from the Trazadone ? She has never peed in the house, even when she first came to us.

Any ideas ? We have run out of ideas to help her.

[Hubcitypam]

All I can tell you is from a human standpoint Trazadone even at a half dose turned both my sister into human zombies. We both quit it.

[tbhounds]

Trazodone did zero for a friends thunder phobic hound. I know I'm repeating myself but, because her behavior has changed acutely recently I think you should seek out a neuro consult.

[FiveRoooooers]

I have no experience with Trazadone but I can tell you how I addressed Sweet's fear of the stupid corn cannon that we are forced to live with throughout the month of August. The farmer up the road has a corn field less than 1/4 mile from our home. The corn cannon, supposedly to scare away the crows, "shoots" every 10 minutes of every hour from 7:00am to 7:00pm. Try living with that, but, I digest. Sweet would panic and opt to run back into the house, shaking like a leaf. What I did was have a supply of yummy treats in my pocket and when the cannon went off I'd sing "Dopey neighbors" and offer the treat. She wouldn't take it at first, but eventually she learned that when the cannon went off she got something yummy, and that was that. She totally outgrew her frantic behavior with the stupid cannon. I hope you can convince Ruby that the booms are just her dopey neighbors.

[Mercsmom]

I have no experience but will share with you what the vet told us when we asked about spooking and "fireworks meds". I specifically asked about Trazadone since it is grey-friendly and others on this site have had good luck with it.

He said that Trazadone is essentially an SSRI. That means it is designed for chronic anxiety not acute. In his opinion, Trazadone wouldn't help the situation at all unless used every day, and then, he doubted it's effectiveness for acute or unexpected spooking ( read "fireworks" "truck backfire" "gunshot" "men dropping lumber").

I noticed that when Mercury spooked at a lumber site, he'd spook at nearly everything for weeks. It has taken a week after the 4th to start to return to normal.

The vet prescribed Acepromazine. Dosage: 1/2 - 2 tablets. I gave him 1/2 a tablet which turned him into a zombie who still got upset with fireworks.

*sigh*

I'm wondering if our plans to be a therapy dog are going to be derailed by spooking.

Sorry, didn't mean to hijack your thread. Just wanted to weigh in.

 

Best of luck.

[tbhounds]

I have no experience but will share with you what the vet told us when we asked about spooking and "fireworks meds". I specifically asked about Trazadone since it is grey-friendly and others on this site have had good luck with it.

He said that Trazadone is essentially an SSRI. That means it is designed for chronic anxiety not acute. In his opinion, Trazadone wouldn't help the situation at all unless used every day, and then, he doubted it's effectiveness for acute or unexpected spooking ( read "fireworks" "truck backfire" "gunshot" "men dropping lumber").

I noticed that when Mercury spooked at a lumber site, he'd spook at nearly everything for weeks. It has taken a week after the 4th to start to return to normal.

The vet prescribed Acepromazine. Dosage: 1/2 - 2 tablets. I gave him 1/2 a tablet which turned him into a zombie who still got upset with fireworks.

*sigh*

I'm wondering if our plans to be a therapy dog are going to be derailed by spooking.

Sorry, didn't mean to hijack your thread. Just wanted to weigh in.

Best of luck.

Please rethink giving ace. I'm surprised your vet still dispensed it. Ace does have it's place in veterinary medicine but, it really has fallen out of favor regarding thunder-firework phobic dogs. Here's why....

https://www.drmartybecker.com/fear-free/2-things-pets-firework-fears/

[DaisyDoodle]

My experience with Trazadone is with elderly humans, and it isn't positive. Falls and foggy brains seem common, but I don't know if it helped with issues it was prescribed for. I remember the last time I gave it to my mom. She was agitated, so I gave her a half dose. No help, but the next day she was a zombie at adult day care.

As someone mentioned above, ACE is sometime prescribed, but I wouldn't use that either. All I've ever heard about Ace here on GT is that it paralyzes the body, but leaves the brain alert, so that the dog is still suffering mentally, but can't get up to escape what it fears.

[macoduck]

What dose of trazodone did you try with Ruby? Mazy was prescribed 1/2 of a 50mg tablet. I have been able to lower that to 1/4 tablet every 2 hours IF I start the first dose before a predicted event (fireworks, thunderstorm). It hasn't been perfect and she still seeks out a dark room. She peed on her bed once but at that point she had held her pee for 18 hours.

 

Have any of you tried valium with any success?

[greysmom]

Yes, as your vet indicated, Trazadone is usually used on a long-term basis, but it also *can* work for situational anxiety. As with any anti-anxiety drug, what works for one doesn't necessarily work for all. Trazadone has been a life-saver for many of us, but it has also not worked for some, or worked only sporadically. The trick is finding the one that works for *your* dog, and *your* dog's brain chemistry. It could also be a dosage issue - they do need to be adjusted individually. Ducky's dog (above) got 1/2 a 50mg tablet. My Cash got 2 whole 50mg tablets (which is the dose for her 70lb body weight) and absolutely acted like a normal, calm greyhound, even during fireworks. Your dog will vary as needed for her physical weight an make-up.

 

In my opinion, having dealt with an extremely spooky dog for years, I would rather she be a bit zombie-fied than the way you described Ruby reacting. If you've tried several different medications with no results, and her anxious behavior is escalating, it's time to see a canine neuerologist.

 

(Please, please, please, do not give acepromazine for anxiety! It has it's place, but this isn't it.)

[Guest mmmberry]

Have you tried Xanax/alprazolam? Works like a charm for my hound without knocking him out. He does get some rowdy munchies once it kicks in though.

[NeylasMom]

Yes, as your vet indicated, Trazadone is usually used on a long-term basis, but it also *can* work for situational anxiety. As with any anti-anxiety drug, what works for one doesn't necessarily work for all. Trazadone has been a life-saver for many of us, but it has also not worked for some, or worked only sporadically. The trick is finding the one that works for *your* dog, and *your* dog's brain chemistry. It could also be a dosage issue - they do need to be adjusted individually. Ducky's dog (above) got 1/2 a 50mg tablet. My Cash got 2 whole 50mg tablets (which is the dose for her 70lb body weight) and absolutely acted like a normal, calm greyhound, even during fireworks. Your dog will vary as needed for her physical weight an make-up.

 

In my opinion, having dealt with an extremely spooky dog for years, I would rather she be a bit zombie-fied than the way you described Ruby reacting. If you've tried several different medications with no results, and her anxious behavior is escalating, it's time to see a canine neuerologist.

 

(Please, please, please, do not give acepromazine for anxiety! It has it's place, but this isn't it.)

This. You might consider a veterinary behaviorist consult as well.

 

And yes, the peeing was I suspect fear, not a side effect of the medication.

[Busderpuddle]

I will talk to the vet again about a neuro consult. We discussed it at the last visit, but he said there is not one nearby that he feels comfortable with. I am starting to feel like Ruby is just going to have some good and some bad days. Poor girl. We have tried Valium and Xanax with zero results. I have never heard of Ace, but it doesn't sound like anything I want to give her.

Thanks for the info.

[greysmom]

You're just in the Woodburn area, right? I can highly recommend Dr Robert Kroll at VCA Northwest Veterinary Specialists in Clackamas. It would be about a 30 minute drive from Woodburn, up I-5 to I-205 to Clackamas. He is *very* familiar with greyhounds and greyhound issues, and our adoption group uses him to consult all the time.

[Busderpuddle]

You're just in the Woodburn area, right? I can highly recommend Dr Robert Kroll at VCA Northwest Veterinary Specialists in Clackamas. It would be about a 30 minute drive from Woodburn, up I-5 to I-205 to Clackamas. He is *very* familiar with greyhounds and greyhound issues, and our adoption group uses him to consult all the time.

Clackamas is not too far and my husband actually works out of there.

I will check into this vet. Thank you.

[Guest FordRacingRon]

 

 

My experience with Trazadone is with elderly humans, and it isn't positive. Falls and foggy brains seem common, but I don't know if it helped with issues it was prescribed for. I remember the last time I gave it to my mom. She was agitated, so I gave her a half dose. No help, but the next day she was a zombie at adult day care.

 

As someone mentioned above, ACE is sometime prescribed, but I wouldn't use that either. All I've ever heard about Ace here on GT is that it paralyzes the body, but leaves the brain alert, so that the dog is still suffering mentally, but can't get up to escape what it fears.

First I want to mention the ACE. NO way,,DON"T DO IT. My dog suffers from the weirdest anxiety issues of any dog i know. She is fine all day but from like 5 pm until bedtime she walks and pants. We have seen a neurologist etc and this is just what my dog does. Before we did all the tests we tried ACE. I gave my dog half the dose just to see what would happen,,I literally thought I had killed her. The only time I had ever seen her like that was when she was given a twilight sleep and collapsed on the floor. The ACE did the same thing and I was afraid she wasn't going to come out of it. ACE shouldn't be given to anyone IMHO.

 

As far as trazadone, it is one of the drugs she takes for this. I rotate this with Diazapam. She has been taking both of these for a year,,no zombie effect, no weeing in her bed (or puddles from fear). I must caveat this thought with the fact loud noises do not scare her and never have. I think a nuke going off next door wouldn't wake her. My dog is pretty bomb proof.

Edited July 14, 2015 by FordRacingRon

[JJNg]

He said that Trazadone is essentially an SSRI. That means it is designed for chronic anxiety not acute. In his opinion, Trazadone wouldn't help the situation at all unless used every day, and then, he doubted it's effectiveness for acute or unexpected spooking ( read "fireworks" "truck backfire" "gunshot" "men dropping lumber").

.....

The vet prescribed Acepromazine. Dosage: 1/2 - 2 tablets. I gave him 1/2 a tablet which turned him into a zombie who still got upset with fireworks.

 

Trazodone is somewhat related to SSRIs, but it is in a slightly different class (SARI), so it's not really accurate to say that it's "essentially an SSRI". Trazodone does work when used on an as-needed basis for situational anxieties, although, as with any anxiety medication, it doesn't work for all dogs. As others have mentioned, acepromazine is not a good choice for anxiety. It essentially immobilizes the dog without reducing anxiety, and has also been shown to increase noise sensitivity, all of which is consistent with your experience using it for your dog. I would have to say that a vet who still prescribes ace for anxiety isn't keeping up with the latest research on behavioral medicine, and I'd be skeptical of his opinion about some of the newer meds being used too (Iike trazodone).

 

Here are a couple studies that support the use of trazodone on an as-needed basis:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19072606

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25029308

[Mercsmom]

Thank you for all the info. on Ace, especially the links. This actually gives me hope that there's something out there that'll curb fireworks anxiety.

Funny thing: The other night we had an electrical storm. Merc does not mind thunder. But, immediately after the storm, someone had fireworks (far off and a lower caliber noise than the thunder) THAT bothered him. How the heck did he know the difference???

[Hubcitypam]

My experience with Trazadone is with elderly humans, and it isn't positive. Falls and foggy brains seem common, but I don't know if it helped with issues it was prescribed for. I remember the last time I gave it to my mom. She was agitated, so I gave her a half dose. No help, but the next day she was a zombie at adult day care.

 

That's what happened to not only me but also my sister. She actually went to the ER after a fall while using it. A half dose made me a zombie.

[PatricksMom]

Does anyone know anything about the possibility of using Wellbutrin in a dog? I've been thinking about trying Trazadone for a while for Leo's GAD for a variety of reasons, but I've heard a lot of good things about Wellbutrin (which isn't an SSRI--diffferent class) and am wondering about asking the vet about that.

[Newgreymom]

My psychiatrist explained that Wellbutrin can actually make anxiety worse in humans, that's why she does not prescribe it for anxiety, but for depression. Not sure about dogs.

[PatricksMom]

My psychiatrist explained that Wellbutrin can actually make anxiety worse in humans, that's why she does not prescribe it for anxiety, but for depression. Not sure about dogs.

It's possible, but Wellbutrin is often used very sucessfully for anxiety in humans.

[Hubcitypam]

Over the past 20 years I've taken just about every drug made for anxiety, bipolar and depression. Wellbutrin was never prescribed to me as anti anxiety but as a supplemental anti depressant along with other drugs. Xanex and especially Ativan have been my friends for anxiety - not sure about using them in dogs. Anti depressants in people take a while to build up in your brain and aren't situational - again, not sure about dogs,

Edited July 21, 2015 by Hubcitypam

[JJNg]

Does anyone know anything about the possibility of using Wellbutrin in a dog? I've been thinking about trying Trazadone for a while for Leo's GAD for a variety of reasons, but I've heard a lot of good things about Wellbutrin (which isn't an SSRI--diffferent class) and am wondering about asking the vet about that.

 

While some of the more common anti-anxiety/antidepressant meds have been used in dogs, Wellbutrin isn't one that I've heard about being used in veterinary medicine. Most of the long-term anxiety meds that have been found to be helpful in veterinary medicine target serotonin levels. From what I can find, Wellbutrin works differently, and hasn't been tried much in dogs.