tbhounds Posted March 5, 2015 Share Posted March 5, 2015 As already mentioned-bun/creatinine? How is his water intake? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeylasMom Posted March 5, 2015 Share Posted March 5, 2015 (edited) So his BUN and creat are normal, but his AST and ALT are high? I'm no expert but that oddly seems indicative of a liver issue, not a kidney issue and water drinking and urinating can accompany both. Also, with kidney disease you expect the urine to be dilute. Although that doesn't make sense given what happened so I'm probably way off. What did your vet say about these last results? I'm sorry there are ongoing issues. Hopefully these are just temporary. If you can get to the bottom of what's actually wrong, maybe there is a supplement to help him heal a bit. Vetri-science makes really good products and have supplements for urinary tract, kidney and liver health. for continued improvement. Edited March 5, 2015 by NeylasMom Quote Jen, CPDT-KA with Zuri, lab in a greyhound suit, Violet, formerly known as Faith, Skye, the permanent puppy, Cisco, resident cat, and my baby girl Neyla, forever in my heart "The great thing about science is that you're free to disagree with it, but you'll be wrong." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbhounds Posted March 5, 2015 Share Posted March 5, 2015 Hepatic enzymes while improving are still high and now his blood proteins are lower = liver disease. Still would like to see the renal values and a current u/a. Have you considered seeing an internal medicine vet? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4My2Greys Posted March 6, 2015 Author Share Posted March 6, 2015 BUN/Creatinine ratio 15 / 12 (4-27) Both times was midrange, which I would take as good. Water consumption has increased dramatically since that incident. Even when getting fluids he seemed to have an insatiable thirst. I am planning to do a follow up urinalysis this Monday, which will be two weeks from the last one. I'm particularly interested in seeing what the microalbumin level is. From what I was told the test does not record a higher value than what was reported on his last urinalysis. My vet said that his actual value could have been anywhere from 30 to 500. It should have been less than 2.5. I will also ask that a protein/ creatinine ratio be done. Tracy, thanks for the heads up about possible liver disease. I will also look into further testing for this. I may be remembering incorrectly, but it seems I've read that an episode of rhabdomyolysis can be damaging to both the kidneys and the liver. If the results of his next urinalysis and bloodwork are still raising red flags and his symptoms of increased thirst and urination continue then I will definitely be considering an internal medicine consult. My hesitation with this is the stress the two hour drive and vet visit would put on him. Neylasmom, I have considered using a renal support supplement. I've already looked at a few. I think I'll start another thread asking peoples' experiences with them. Do you happen to know if something has to be prescribed by your veterinarian in order for HP to pay for it. The reason I ask is not only for the purpose of the renal supplement, but if indeed he has liver disease then I would want to start him on denamarin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeylasMom Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 I don't know that they cover them at all. I know they don't cover "holistic" care and always assumed that supplements would be included in that. Let me know if it turns out that they do. I am a huge fan of the VetriScience products. I haven't used the kidney support formulas, but have had success with the urinary tract health supplement. Thorne Research is the other company I trust. I know they have a good milk thistle supplement although I'm not sure if they have one that also contains Sam-e. He's not on an NSAID at this point, right? Quote Jen, CPDT-KA with Zuri, lab in a greyhound suit, Violet, formerly known as Faith, Skye, the permanent puppy, Cisco, resident cat, and my baby girl Neyla, forever in my heart "The great thing about science is that you're free to disagree with it, but you'll be wrong." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4My2Greys Posted March 6, 2015 Author Share Posted March 6, 2015 No. No NSAIDS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbhounds Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 I would start him on Denamarin. It's pricey but, top shelf and because it will be prescribed by your vet HP should cover it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4My2Greys Posted March 6, 2015 Author Share Posted March 6, 2015 I'm going to talk to my vet about putting him on the denamarin. On a positive note he only got up once after going to bed to go out last night. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbhounds Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 Positive baby steps <3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest OPointyDog Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 Can't say enough good things about denamarin - our last dog, Star, (grey x GSD) had cancer in her abdominal cavity (started as adrenal form of Cushings), and the denamarin brought her liver values down to normal for the last few months of her life. I think it provided a lot of relief. I do recall that is crazy expensive. I think we paid $75 for a two-week supply. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaryJane Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 I recently posted in a thread about a "Liver cleansing diet" created by Dr. Dodds (controversial doctor in that methods not validated by peers) and I apologize if it was in this thread. The link is -- http://www.canine-epilepsy.com/Liver%20cleansing%20diet.htm This references a canine seizure site because many seizure dogs (which my Lucy is one of) get liver issues from the medicines they are on. Quite a few people have used this diet for their seizure dogs when they started having elevated liver enzymes indicating liver problems and they said that it has helped but, I can't reference a study to confirm this information. Note, I use a white fish and rice diet for my seizure dog but not because of liver issues - she has IBD and because of this, needs a novel protein. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4My2Greys Posted March 7, 2015 Author Share Posted March 7, 2015 Please don't apologize for offering information. I appreciate all the help I can get as I try to figure out the damage done and how to best reverse it. It just so happens that I was reading about this diet on that website earlier today when I was looking up information on liver disease. Is it a diet that your dog like Chase, whose liver appears to have taken a hit from his episode of rhabdo, would remain on or something to use periodically to keep the liver cleansed? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaryJane Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 Please don't apologize for offering information. I appreciate all the help I can get as I try to figure out the damage done and how to best reverse it. It just so happens that I was reading about this diet on that website earlier today when I was looking up information on liver disease. Is it a diet that your dog like Chase, whose liver appears to have taken a hit from his episode of rhabdo, would remain on or something to use periodically to keep the liver cleansed? From people that have used the diet, they keep their dogs solely on it at least until the liver enzymes return to normal values but, many have just left the dogs on it after an "event" has occurred - just as long as you supplement with the calcium and vitamins. Again, most of the people that I know that have used this diet have done so because of seizure meds their dog is on and would still be on after an "event" and thus, still be prone to liver damage. My Lucy has been on a variation of this diet for a bit over a year now and is doing well on it and I have no plans on changing it and the vet has concurred but, in her case it is because of IBD. Finding the fish at a reasonable price can be an issue - I have a store around me that has a "white fish chowder mix" that they sell for between 3 to 5 a pound and it is the fish that is a few days old but still useable. Recently, Walmart has been carrying a frozen tilapia 4 lb bag for 11.99 but, the origin is China. Be careful to read the labels as some of the frozen fish is salted ..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EllenEveBaz Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 Sending ear rubs to your boy and hugs to you. Quote Ellen, with brindle Milo and the blonde ballerina, Gelsey remembering Eve, Baz, Scout, Romie, Nutmeg, and Jeter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
queenwinniesmom Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 Sending ear rubs to your boy and hugs to you. So am I! Quote Nancy, Mom to Evangelina and Kiva Missing Lacey, Patsy, Buster, my heart dog Nick, Winnie, Pollyanna, Tess, my precious Lydia, Calvin Lee, my angel butterfly Laila, and kitties Lily, Sam and Simon My Etsy shop: http://www.etsy.com/shop/Catsburgandhoundtown Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EllenEveBaz Posted March 20, 2015 Share Posted March 20, 2015 How are Chase and you doing? Quote Ellen, with brindle Milo and the blonde ballerina, Gelsey remembering Eve, Baz, Scout, Romie, Nutmeg, and Jeter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4My2Greys Posted March 20, 2015 Author Share Posted March 20, 2015 How are Chase and you doing? Thanks for thinking about Chase. He is doing better. I'll do a better update this evening when I have more time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlieRhea Posted March 20, 2015 Share Posted March 20, 2015 Thinking of you both Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbhounds Posted March 20, 2015 Share Posted March 20, 2015 Thanks for thinking about Chase. He is doing better. I'll do a better update this evening when I have more time. Wonderful :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seeh2o Posted March 20, 2015 Share Posted March 20, 2015 Another voice heard from here singing the praises of Denmarin. Ed's little old Boston Terrier was behaving in a very strange way, almost demented. Was diagnosed with liver problems. His vet recommended Denmarin and it really helped a lot for a year or so. Looking forward to the Chase update later today. Quote Sunsands Doodles: Doodles aka Claire, Bella Run Softly: Softy aka Bowie (the Diamond Dog) Missing my beautiful boy Sunsands Carl 2.25.2003 - 4.1.2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carronstar Posted March 20, 2015 Share Posted March 20, 2015 Another vote for the Denamarin. It is costly, but when my girl couldn't make it past 3-4 am without wanting to go out for no apparent reason, I started her on it and she went back to sleeping through the night. It helped a lot for our last year. Prices are moderately better on Amazon but it is still an expensive supplement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nessa Posted March 20, 2015 Share Posted March 20, 2015 I have 14 denamarin I no longer need . If you want them, please PM me with your home address. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4My2Greys Posted March 21, 2015 Author Share Posted March 21, 2015 For everyone who has asked or thought about Chase, thank you so much. I had intended to take Chase in this past Monday for a liver function test, which would have required him going in for a blood draw before he ate and returning for another 2 hours after he ate. When I approached him with collar in hand he immediately started trembling and shook the entire 40 minute drive to the vet. One of the techs came out to draw the blood, but even that proved extremely stressful for him. Because of that I decided to forgo the liver function testing and just do a repeat of the Superchem panel, a Urinalysis with Protein/Creatinine ratio, and Microalbuminuria. If the values, which prompted the suggestion for the liver function test were still off target I would bring him back for the test. Thankfully things are looking much better. I will only list values that were an issue with the bloodwork and urinalysis. Total Protein, was up from a low of 4.4 to 7.4. AST was down from 4,200 to 278 and now to 117. That is still high, should be between 15-66, but it is coming down. ALT is down to 40, bringing it into the target range of 12-118. Glucose, which was high at 176, was back down to 92. Creatinine rose however, from 1.1 to 1.8, putting it above target. Now for the Urinalysis. Other than pH being high, was 8.0, should have been between 5.5-7.0, everything else looked good. Protein/Creatinine ratio was 0.1, should be <=0.5. Microalbuminuria, which registered at the highest scale at the beginning was down to 0.4, bringing it safely in the target of <2 5. The polydipsia and polyuria have improved, but are still a problem. I no longer have to fill and refill his water throughout the day and the accidents while I am at work are down to one. As long as this is going on and the ALT is high I will continue giving him the Denamarin. On the urinalysis it did show Bacteria of Cocci and Rods at 26-55 HPF, where there should have been none. I questioned the possibility of a UTI, but the vet didn't think it likely as there was no evidence of WBC. We are almost one month from when this started and I am hoping that in another month or so things will be back to normal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeylasMom Posted March 21, 2015 Share Posted March 21, 2015 This is SO great to hear. Really fantastic. I hope things continue in this direction until everything is back to normal. Quote Jen, CPDT-KA with Zuri, lab in a greyhound suit, Violet, formerly known as Faith, Skye, the permanent puppy, Cisco, resident cat, and my baby girl Neyla, forever in my heart "The great thing about science is that you're free to disagree with it, but you'll be wrong." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greysmom Posted March 21, 2015 Share Posted March 21, 2015 Sounds like everything is mostly moving in the right direction! Yeah! Quote Chris - Mom to: Felicity (DeLand), and Andi (Braska Pandora) siggy by Chris Harper, on Flickr Angels: Libby (Everlast), Dorie (Dog Gone Holly), Dude (TNJ VooDoo), Copper (Kid's Copper), Cash (GSI Payncash), Toni (LPH Cry Baby), Whiskey (KT's Phys Ed), Atom, Lilly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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