Osteo Thread Part 8

[llm51807]

Pogo's official discharge information:

 

 

 

Well, at least it looks like the trachea should heal on its own. A grass awn? Wow, I hate when they eat grass but I never considered that. I thought I could spot danger anywhere; I guess I'll have to add that to my extremely long list.

 

Not sure how you feel about homeopathic treatment (I'm not even sure how I feel about it), but we have been on Dr. Loop's regime for over a month. You can find more info here if you're interested. http://nutrition.tripawds.com/2010/02/02/2-years-and-more-eisen-fights-bone-cancer-with-homeopathy/. He does consultation by phone and then sends the remedies by mail.

 

All good healing thoughts to Pogo.

[NeylasMom]

I think it's been long enough that I can say the Zoledronate seems to be working. Yesterday was our most active day in a long time - longest walk we've taken, followed by in and out of the car multiple times for a massage appt, followed by the usual amount of trotting around playing with his Cuz ball, plus 2 extra sessions of that when he got excited for a potty walk and when his "Uncle Dave" came over. Today he is as good as he was yesterday morning.

 

Don't know how long it will last or how long we will be able to continue treatments without serious risk to his kidneys, but for now just taking it in and enjoying it.

[greysmom]

Quality of life is as important as anything else, Jen. It sounds like it's working and he's happier. I would say that's a success!

[llm51807]

I think it's been long enough that I can say the Zoledronate seems to be working. Yesterday was our most active day in a long time - longest walk we've taken, followed by in and out of the car multiple times for a massage appt, followed by the usual amount of trotting around playing with his Cuz ball, plus 2 extra sessions of that when he got excited for a potty walk and when his "Uncle Dave" came over. Today he is as good as he was yesterday morning.

 

Don't know how long it will last or how long we will be able to continue treatments without serious risk to his kidneys, but for now just taking it in and enjoying it.

 

Fantastic news! Lots of that it keeps working for him! I've been doing a lot of reading on Zoledronate because I'm trying to decide if we'll do more treatments. It doesn't seem to be helping Cecil's pain, but I've read that it may inhibit tumor growth and mets in OS as well. So happy it's working for Zuri! Enjoy every moment!

[NeylasMom]

Yes, even if we had gotten good pain relief from the radiation I planned to continue the Zoledronate treatments for that reason (excluding the kidney stuff that came up). If cost isn't a factor and his kidneys are good, I don't think you are likely to do harm continuing them and they may help keep the bone strong.

[NeylasMom]

 

Fantastic news! Lots of that it keeps working for him! I've been doing a lot of reading on Zoledronate because I'm trying to decide if we'll do more treatments. It doesn't seem to be helping Cecil's pain, but I've read that it may inhibit tumor growth and mets in OS as well. So happy it's working for Zuri! Enjoy every moment!

How is Cecil doing these days? Is it just you and me left in here? I mean, not a lot of dogs with osteo is a good thing, but there have been a few tough losses recently.

 

Zuri is still doing well. Little ups and downs, but overall he's been steady since his Zoledronate. We're headed to a cabin in the woods tomorrow until Monday and then Tuesday We recheck kidney values again and repeat Zoledronate, barring any terrible results.

[4My2Greys]

Glad to hear Zuri is doing well. Sending white light for him and all the hounds fighting cancer.

[NeylasMom]

Glad to hear Zuri is doing well. Sending white light for him and all the hounds fighting cancer.

Thank you so much. How are you holding up? Edited July 21, 2016 by NeylasMom

[4My2Greys]

I'm not sure. I feel guilty for wanting more time with him realizing now how much pain he was in. Looking back I should have been more proactive in finding out what was wrong. It has been a really screwed up year with my vet of the past 8 years diagnosing him with LS then in Feb telling me not to bring him back again because I ask to have him checked out after a dental because he was showing possible signs of rhabdo. If I had pursued an actual diagnosis with MRI the cancer and clot may have been found sooner and something could have been done.

[NeylasMom]

I'm not sure. I feel guilty for wanting more time with him realizing now how much pain he was in. Looking back I should have been more proactive in finding out what was wrong. It has been a really screwed up year with my vet of the past 8 years diagnosing him with LS then in Feb telling me not to bring him back again because I ask to have him checked out after a dental because he was showing possible signs of rhabdo. If I had pursued an actual diagnosis with MRI the cancer and clot may have been found sooner and something could have been done.

I'm so sorry. Its hard enough to face these losses without things like that adding to it. Have you found a new vet? That is at least an action you can take so moving forward you feel more comfortable with your ability to make informed decisions. Having said that, I hope you can find peace with the situation. There's no way to know whether the outcome would have been better or worse depending on the what ifs. And you certainly shouldn't feel guilty for wishing you'd had more time with him. That's completely natural, and justified.

 

If it makes you feel any better there were days proceeding Zuri's diagnosis where he would really drag on his walk and my gut was very quietly telling me something was off, but there was nothing to go to my vet with. So I would be coaxing him along and encouraging him to hurry up and would think to myself, "you're going to feel really bad when this turns out to be cancer".

 

But even though I thought that, I didn't truly believe it could be true. The day he started limping and I did know, I was shocked and heartbroken.

 

All of this to say, try to be kind to yourself. Dealing with your grief is enough. None of us are perfect and I certainly know from your many posts on here that you are someone who does everything possible for their dogs. We do the best we can with the info we have, right? Frankly I wish I could take my own advice better than I do, but I'm working on it.

[4My2Greys]

It wasn't that he wasn't seeing a vet after that incident. After being summarily dismissed by my regulsr vet I started taking him for chiropractic adjustments, acupuncture and laser therapy based on the assumption of LS. All things I shouldn't have been doing when cancer is present. I'm glad at least that I had plenty of tramadol and gabapentin for him.

I did find a vet though toward the last few months of his life that I feel really good about using in the future. He was extremely understanding of Chase's fears and did his best to always make sure we didn't have to wait out in the lobby. I also liked that he sent x-rays to a board certified radiologist. I just wish I had been taking Chase to him sooner. By the time x-rays were finally taken of his leg, x-rays were taken of his spine by another vet, there wasn't any doubt about how bad it was.

[llm51807]

How is Cecil doing these days? Is it just you and me left in here? I mean, not a lot of dogs with osteo is a good thing, but there have been a few tough losses recently.

 

Zuri is still doing well. Little ups and downs, but overall he's been steady since his Zoledronate. We're headed to a cabin in the woods tomorrow until Monday and then Tuesday We recheck kidney values again and repeat Zoledronate, barring any terrible results.

So good to hear Zuri is doing well enough to go camping! Going to be pretty toasty here this next week, but I imagine a cabin in the woods will be shady and cool. Enjoy!

 

Cecil is doing a little better. We did acupuncture on Thursday, we added hemp oil on Friday and also got a zoledronate infusion on Friday. Who knows what did it (that's the problem with doing more than one new thing at a time, but who can wait considering...). He's very much improved. Still limping but much more comfortable based on how he's moving. Best I've seen him in over a month. Maybe the 3rd zoledronate kicked in finally. I don't know, but we'll keep doing everything we've been doing and hoping he continues to improve.

 

It may be unrealistic, but because we had a good X-ray last month with no active tumor in the shoulder I keep hoping his pain is from radiation damage and that it will actually heal on its own w/the zoledronate. I know he has osteo and I know it will come back, but I hate thinking the pain in his cancer leg will be his undoing. The Cyberknife was my choice; had we done an amputation, he wouldn't have this issue. We caught it early and that's why we could do Cyberknife.

 

Catch it early, catch it late...I think we all second guess our decisions.

 

I'm not sure. I feel guilty for wanting more time with him realizing now how much pain he was in. Looking back I should have been more proactive in finding out what was wrong. It has been a really screwed up year with my vet of the past 8 years diagnosing him with LS then in Feb telling me not to bring him back again because I ask to have him checked out after a dental because he was showing possible signs of rhabdo. If I had pursued an actual diagnosis with MRI the cancer and clot may have been found sooner and something could have been done.

 

There's never enough time; please don't feel guilty about wishing you had more. I want a hundred more years with Cecil and I'm already so sad I won't have it. I just try not to let my broken heart spoil the time we have left. The level of love and care GT members shower on our beloved greyhounds surpasses many human relationships. I believe Chase knew how much you loved him and that you did the very best you could for him. And I believe Cecil thinks the same about me and Zuri about Jen.

 

Have you ever read the book Sight Hound by Pam Houston? It's told mostly through the eyes of Dante, an Irish Wolfhound who is a tripawd due to osteo. It will tear your heart out, but there's something about it that I find comforting.

[greysmom]

I so understand the feeling of second guessing myself. You can drive yourself crazy thinking "what if..." But none of us are omniscient, and we just do the best we can with what information we have and hope that something makes a difference.

 

I know Dude knew that we loved him, and he loved us, right up to when he closed his eyes for the last time. It's all we have, really, after everything. That final reassurance that love is enough for forgiveness.

[NeylasMom]

Add to the second guessing over analyzing and you have my problem. Its so hard to know what's right.

 

Really glad Cecil is finally seeing improvement. Fwiw, this Zoledronate treatment seems to be "sticking" better than the first for Z. At right around 2 1/2 weeks after the first he came racing out of his crate like a maniac, ran around like a total nut with his toy and then never really recovered until we repeated the treatment. So yesterday was 3 weeks and still bouncy. But we have also added in massages, which seem to really make a BIG difference and I've added in supplements, particularly Curcumin. So like you, I can't say what's doing what though I will admit I am mildly hopeful the Zoledronate is having a cumulative effect/repairing bone much like you are hoping it will for Cecil. Regardless we will keep on keeping on for as long as we can.

 

I did finally get to the point where I could add Artemisinin but we hit a hiccup so I switched to Maitake extract and once we're back from the cabin and he's had the Zoleronate we'll try the Arte again.

[dante2zoe]

Wishing you many more good days and memories with your pups.

Edited July 21, 2016 by dante2zoe

[NeylasMom]

Today is kidney recheck/Zoledronate day. I am getting increasingly anxious about the blood work. Like sick to my stomach because that's the fun of anxiety plus IBS.

 

The good news is that we had a great time at the cabin. I bumped up his Tramadol a tiny bit in anticipation of being more active, but I'm not sure he even needed it. Part of me wonders if the radiation finally worked for him REALLY late or if the Zoledronate is doing more than just pain relief - rebuilding bone, etc because I haven't seen evidence of it "wearing off" like the first time.

 

How's Cecil? Still improving I hope!

[greysmom]

Zuri

 

Please keep us updated...

[llm51807]

Sending soooo many good, positive thoughts for you and Zuri today! I'm thrilled to hear the zoledronate didn't wear off (or that the radiation treatment finally kicked in...or whatever!) It's so hard to tell what's working, I know. Happy to hear you enjoyed your time at the cabin. I try not to medicate unless it's necessary, but now with Cecil's osteo, I really don't hesitate, especially with the Tramadol. If he gets extra exercise or in/out of the minivan to the vets, I'll give him an extra Tramadol or two. Best to get ahead of it and at this point, we're trying to focus on having good days. A lesson in living in the moment!

 

Cecil is also doing better. And once again, I'm not sure what did it. We did acupuncture, added CBD oil, and had his 3rd zoledronate on 8/14 and 8/15. He was already a bit better on 8/15 when he went in for the zoledronate and by 8/18 he as significantly better. It's the first time in a while that he's been able to shake his head (you know how their long legs flail about when they shake) without yelping or standing there looking sad holding up his leg. Up/down from lying on his bed is faster and easier. He's still limping but moving much faster. More of a hitch in his giddyup than a painful limp.

 

Who knows how long it will last, but we'll take every second of it.

 

Lots good vibes for Zuri!

[NeylasMom]

Thanks. That's so great to hear about Cecil. That's what I say about Z - he has a little hiccup in his giddyup, but doesn't seem to bother him. And honestly it's barely noticeable these days.

 

So creatinine was the same, BUN was up a little bit again, from 47 to 51 this time, but to be honest, it's hot as heck here and he's been panting a lot today. So I don't know. I'm waiting for the oncologist to call me back, but we need to leave right now for his treatment if we're doing it today.

 

Since he's not more psinful we could probably wait regardless, but it's hard to know whether it's doing something we don't know about where we'd want to do it regardless. If that makes any sense.

 

Regardless, no major changes in blood work is good news to me!

Edited July 26, 2016 by NeylasMom

[NeylasMom]

Oncologist agrees kidneys seem to be pretty stable for the moment, but he has been tanking up on water and his urine smells strong. His U/A results 2 weeks ago didn't indicate an infection but we're doing a sterile urine draw and culture to be absolutely sure. I'm pretty sure it's just his stress drinking/peeing like he had in 2015, but since I can't identify a cause I want to make sure we're not missing something.

 

Going to wait on Zoledronate since he doesn't seem to need it just yet and she felt it would be better for his kidneys to wait so we'll reschedule in a week or two depending on how he's doing.

 

Waiting for them to do the culture. They have to do the upside down thing like they do for ultrasounds, which he is not a fan of so I'm of course anxious and feeling guilty.

 

ETA: And they couldn't get a sample so we'll have to try with our regular vet at another time.

Edited July 26, 2016 by NeylasMom

[llm51807]

Oh, the guilt when we make them go through these unpleasant procedures and tests. The sad but indignant eyes. Oh well, we're the humans and I think we're making some good choices for our boys. Luckily they rarely hold grudges

 

Sounds like your vet is very careful. Treading that fine line between keeping them healthy (well, you know, besides the osteo), staying ahead of the pain, and keeping the tumor at bay is so hard. Sounds like you're getting good advice and Zuri is getting great care.

 

I'd say a good day overall, right?

[NeylasMom]

It was a tiring day for mom, and I think Z as well, but yes, good news overall. Certainly stable kidney values for 4 weeks is great news! And being in a place where we're able to delay a pain treatment is also great.

 

I would like to get this drinking under control. Now debating when/if to try for the sterile draw again. All I know right now is not tomorrow. Tomorrow Z gets his massage and then we both get to chill.

Edited July 27, 2016 by NeylasMom

[greysmom]

Semi good news is almost *mostly* good news!

[llm51807]

You gave advice to someone earlier about being good to yourself; well, I'll pass that back to you. Go get yourself a massage after Zuri gets his!

[NeylasMom]

You gave advice to someone earlier about being good to yourself; well, I'll pass that back to you. Go get yourself a massage after Zuri gets his!

Ha. I do get biweekly massages for my back, but they are more like torture than being relaxing. I did decide to stay home today and sleep in. Zuri is still in bed. I guess he was too tired to tank up on water last night so I can't complain. Also, his sock stayed on overnight! Small victories.