Osteo Thread Part 8

[LaFlaca]

Buffy didn't get into the study due to a couple blood values being below acceptable thresholds. The folks at UC Davis were super and got Buffy in for an amputation yesterday. They are keeping her for a couple of days for recovery. We might still consider administering Rapamycin out of pocket. Thanks for all your support.

Keeping Buffy and you close in my thoughts as well as all the others battling cancer or waiting for a diagnosis.

[Guest asaccamora]

Keeping Buffy and you close in my thoughts as well as all the others battling cancer or waiting for a diagnosis.

Thanks! How is Wendy doing?

[Annette]

 

Thanks to your suggestion, I did look up studies and there is a UC Davis trial which is adding rapamycin to the amputation + chemo protocol and we are trying to get Buffy enrolled in that study. I believe Pogo is on the same nationwide study except at UW- Madison.

 

We consulted Dr.Couto and he was very helpful in giving a second opinion and as a sound board for the UCD study.

 

Thats great to hear about Twiggy! We are definitely thinking about amputation + chemo as the protocol. Thanks for the vote of confidence .

 

Pogo is in the study. He is 5 months and 9 days post amp. He is doing great. Thursday he goes back to Madison for his 3rd sleep-over as part of the study.

 

Pogo did have a rough start with his amputation. He developed an arrhythmia, didn't eat for close to a week, had significant bruising, and would not stand. They sent him home hoping that he would do better at home, but he didn't. Because he wouldn't eat, we couldn't hide his meds in his braunschweiger and we could not force them down him. He clamped down so hard on Roy's hand that he drew blood. We ended up driving back down to Madison (160 miles) the day after Thanksgiving. He had a fever of 106 caused by a UTI from the catheter he had in him. I think he was at the vet school for 8 days total.

 

To look at him now you wouldn't know he had such a hard time.

 

Pogo had a lot of what we assumed were phantom pains. The oncologist didn't want to over medicate him because he didn't want him basically becoming "dopey" (I can't remember what his exact words were anymore). We kept wondering when the medicine would slow him down. It never has. Pogo has his name for a reason. The neighbors were over for dinner around New Year's (again I can't remember, Pogo has had our life either going full tilt or in slow motion) and even though they knew Pogo had his leg amputated, they didn't realize it was Pogo who was jumping all over them when they tried to get into the house. Long before Pogo was diagnosed with cancer, he leapt up onto the stoop at the door in the yard. I am sure I heard a thud on the door. A day or two later he started to scream with pain. The vet determined the pain was in his neck. We can only guess that thud on the door was him crashing. Then one night, Pogo was laying on his amp side and when he got up, he had to use his head and neck to help himself get up! We finally figured out what was causing his phantom pains. Not that we are happy he has pains in his neck, but we now know what the cause of the pain is. He is slowly getting more strength so that he is not relying on his head and neck to help him get up when he is lying on his side.

 

Hope Buffy is recovering well from her surgery. Please keep us updated.

[Annette]

My girl Twiggy is one of the very fortunate ones. She is now >4.5 years post-amp for osteo, and is her oncologist's longest surviving osteo dog (even though 2 of his own greyhounds had it).

 

We live in a 4-story townhouse with steps in/out of the unit. Until about 2.5 years ago, Twiggy had no problems with stairs at all, and she followed me all over the house. Since then, we live in the downstairs room. (who knew living in one tiny room could be so functional! lol)

 

 

Pogo wants to know how his cancer fighting hero is doing? He says that they will be the fastest hounds in the radar run this year.

[LaFlaca]

Thanks! How is Wendy doing?

[/quote

Thank you for asking! Oddly, Wendy seems like her usual self except for the inconsistent appetite. She'll eat fine one day and not a bite the next. She won't eat a meal, but will readily accept a treat. Just a few minutes ago she conned DH into feeding her almost an entire loaf of Cuban bread! It's bizarre. It's not like she has no appetite at all, it just seems as though she'll eat when and what she wants. Is this typical of early onset bone cancer?

Anyway, we go back to the vet next Saturday after 3 weeks of antibiotics to re-x-ray and reassess in the hope that we're looking at a bone infection. I thought bone cancer was very obvious on x-ray. Is that not the case?

Love ❤, health and ear rubs to all of your fur-kids

[TwiggysMom]

asaccamora - I'm sending out all best wishes for Buffy in her recovery! When she comes home, do remember that the first two weeks are the most difficult. You may even question your course of treatment. It WILL get better.

 

You may want to make out a schedule for her meds which will be a complicated one (one med with food one with out, this med away from the other med, etc. ...)

 

Also, she should slowly improve, not seem more painful. If she becomes increasingly painful or restless, do consult the vet & check for infection. Twiggy developed a life-threatening infection pseudomonas a) and had to be hospitalized for 5 days to recover from it.

 

But in about 6 to 8 weeks Buffy should be about 95-99% of her original self! It is an amazing transformation to watch. Tripods rock!

 

 

 

Annette - You bet they will!! (I don't remember what date Gala is this year, but Twiggy will either be almost or just turned 12 by then! Amazing, since she had very low odds of turning 8!) Twiggy is doing very well, & we finally scored a room at the Sidney James for Mountain Hounds, so Twiggy will have her 5th Mountain Hounds as a tripod, can't wait! Is Pogo still being his happy enthusiastic self?

 

 

 

LaFlaca - I hope you get a good answer next Saturday about Wendy. I can't speak to her occasional indifference to food, as Twiggy has always been a hungry, hungry hippo. Even in her darkest days, she would eat if I brought food to her. However, if Wendy is more nonchalant about meals in general, I wouldn't take that as a sign of anything in particular. I continue to send good thoughts out to your girl!

[Annette]

Wendy - I believe the Gala is on October 15th this year. It's usually the weekend after Dewey.

 

Pogo is still pogo'ng. I just keep hearing his oncologist's voice in my head with him being worried that too much medicine would make him sluggish and groggy. The boy is more energetic and runs more than when he had "4 On The Floor".

[Guest asaccamora]

 

Pogo is in the study. He is 5 months and 9 days post amp. He is doing great. Thursday he goes back to Madison for his 3rd sleep-over as part of the study.

 

Pogo did have a rough start with his amputation. He developed an arrhythmia, didn't eat for close to a week, had significant bruising, and would not stand. They sent him home hoping that he would do better at home, but he didn't. Because he wouldn't eat, we couldn't hide his meds in his braunschweiger and we could not force them down him. He clamped down so hard on Roy's hand that he drew blood. We ended up driving back down to Madison (160 miles) the day after Thanksgiving. He had a fever of 106 caused by a UTI from the catheter he had in him. I think he was at the vet school for 8 days total.

 

To look at him now you wouldn't know he had such a hard time.

 

Pogo had a lot of what we assumed were phantom pains. The oncologist didn't want to over medicate him because he didn't want him basically becoming "dopey" (I can't remember what his exact words were anymore). We kept wondering when the medicine would slow him down. It never has. Pogo has his name for a reason. The neighbors were over for dinner around New Year's (again I can't remember, Pogo has had our life either going full tilt or in slow motion) and even though they knew Pogo had his leg amputated, they didn't realize it was Pogo who was jumping all over them when they tried to get into the house. Long before Pogo was diagnosed with cancer, he leapt up onto the stoop at the door in the yard. I am sure I heard a thud on the door. A day or two later he started to scream with pain. The vet determined the pain was in his neck. We can only guess that thud on the door was him crashing. Then one night, Pogo was laying on his amp side and when he got up, he had to use his head and neck to help himself get up! We finally figured out what was causing his phantom pains. Not that we are happy he has pains in his neck, but we now know what the cause of the pain is. He is slowly getting more strength so that he is not relying on his head and neck to help him get up when he is lying on his side.

 

Hope Buffy is recovering well from her surgery. Please keep us updated.

Buff is back home and she seems mostly ok but panting/crying a lot which has me concerned. I was expecting more "dopey" .

 

We are hoping to get a confirmed diagnosis from the amputated leg soon. Buffy didn't get into the study due to blood values being a tad off. Once chemo finishes, we are considering administering rapamycin out of pocket if possible. If you wouldn't mind, i would love to ping you as pogo undergoes rapamycin treatments and side effects if any.

 

Thanks! How is Wendy doing?

[/quote

Thank you for asking! Oddly, Wendy seems like her usual self except for the inconsistent appetite. She'll eat fine one day and not a bite the next. She won't eat a meal, but will readily accept a treat. Just a few minutes ago she conned DH into feeding her almost an entire loaf of Cuban bread! It's bizarre. It's not like she has no appetite at all, it just seems as though she'll eat when and what she wants. Is this typical of early onset bone cancer?

Anyway, we go back to the vet next Saturday after 3 weeks of antibiotics to re-x-ray and reassess in the hope that we're looking at a bone infection. I thought bone cancer was very obvious on x-ray. Is that not the case?

Love ❤, health and ear rubs to all of your fur-kids

Hoping for the best for Wendy! Once they get the notion that treats can be had instead of regular food, its a tough challenge. Buff is kinda refusing to eat her dogfood+pumpkin, although with a bit of hand feeding and smear of peanut butter on my hand, things went a bit better.

 

asaccamora - I'm sending out all best wishes for Buffy in her recovery! When she comes home, do remember that the first two weeks are the most difficult. You may even question your course of treatment. It WILL get better.

 

You may want to make out a schedule for her meds which will be a complicated one (one med with food one with out, this med away from the other med, etc. ...)

 

Also, she should slowly improve, not seem more painful. If she becomes increasingly painful or restless, do consult the vet & check for infection. Twiggy developed a life-threatening infection pseudomonas a) and had to be hospitalized for 5 days to recover from it.

 

But in about 6 to 8 weeks Buffy should be about 95-99% of her original self! It is an amazing transformation to watch. Tripods rock!

Yeah the meds are a challenge espy amicar since its 3x, 8 hours. Having been through a couple of knee surgeries, I do know what you are talking about with the transformation. She is hopping around now for potty just fine. The restlessness is worrying me but I am giving in 1/2 a day before calling the hospital back.

[Annette]

Buff is back home and she seems mostly ok but panting/crying a lot which has me concerned. I was expecting more "dopey" .

 

We are hoping to get a confirmed diagnosis from the amputated leg soon. Buffy didn't get into the study due to blood values being a tad off. Once chemo finishes, we are considering administering rapamycin out of pocket if possible. If you wouldn't mind, i would love to ping you as pogo undergoes rapamycin treatments and side effects if any.

 

Yeah the meds are a challenge espy amicar since its 3x, 8 hours. Having been through a couple of knee surgeries, I do know what you are talking about with the transformation. She is hopping around now for potty just fine. The restlessness is worrying me but I am giving in 1/2 a day before calling the hospital back.

 

asaccamora - Each dog is different in reaction to the drugs they receive after the amputation. What drugs is Buffy on?

 

Pogo is 7 weeks into the rapamycin segment of the study and he has not had any side effects. He also had 4 rounds of carboplatin and did not have any side effects from that. I did give Pogo Cerenia because I was paranoid about his reaction to chemo. Our first greyhound, Icabod, underwent chemo for hemangiosarcoma and did not do well on the 3 drug cocktail of chemo drugs he was receiving (that was 19 years ago).

 

Are you on facebook? I tend to float between facebook and here.

[Guest asaccamora]

 

asaccamora - Each dog is different in reaction to the drugs they receive after the amputation. What drugs is Buffy on?

 

Pogo is 7 weeks into the rapamycin segment of the study and he has not had any side effects. He also had 4 rounds of carboplatin and did not have any side effects from that. I did give Pogo Cerenia because I was paranoid about his reaction to chemo. Our first greyhound, Icabod, underwent chemo for hemangiosarcoma and did not do well on the 3 drug cocktail of chemo drugs he was receiving (that was 19 years ago).

 

Are you on facebook? I tend to float between facebook and here.

Buffy has fentanyl patch + rimadyl. I am on Facebook, but rarely use it these days. I was going to say ill DM you my name/etc but realize there is no way to do a message using Greytalk.

[Annette]

Buffy has fentanyl patch + rimadyl. I am on Facebook, but rarely use it these days. I was going to say ill DM you my name/etc but realize there is no way to do a message using Greytalk.

 

I believe the fentanyl is what is causing Buffy's restlessness. Hopefully someone else her will be able to verify this.

 

Pogo was not restless. He had the "hundred yard stare" which was really worrisome because he had absolutely no light in his eyes. It turned out that his UTI was the main cause of this.

 

You may want to take his temp (if you have a thermometer) to see if he might be running a fever. Pogo had a fever of 106

[Guest asaccamora]

 

I believe the fentanyl is what is causing Buffy's restlessness. Hopefully someone else her will be able to verify this.

 

Pogo was not restless. He had the "hundred yard stare" which was really worrisome because he had absolutely no light in his eyes. It turned out that his UTI was the main cause of this.

 

You may want to take his temp (if you have a thermometer) to see if he might be running a fever. Pogo had a fever of 106

The fentanyl is off and she is so much better. Our vet gave us some antibiotics as a precaution since he didn't like some of the oozing (didn't look infected per say). We have a recheck on Friday. She has spirits up and wants to walk to her usual spots. Almost wanted to go around the block but I cut her off as I was worried about her straining herself.

Buffy's latest is here.. http://forum.greytalk.com/index.php/topic/317596-buffys-amputation-post-op-questions/?p=5928020

 

Her strength and will are amazing

[Annette]

Here's Pogo pup running like a fool for the 2nd time on Sunday:

 

http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j223/RhettsGreygal/th_DSCN3725_zpsdv0pdtwh.mp4

 

Here he is afterwards ready to go in and relax. We built the ramp for him before he had his leg amputated in November:

 

 

[Guest asaccamora]

Here's Pogo pup running like a fool for the 2nd time on Sunday:

 

http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j223/RhettsGreygal/th_DSCN3725_zpsdv0pdtwh.mp4

 

Here he is afterwards ready to go in and relax. We built the ramp for him before he had his leg amputated in November:

 

 

 

Oh wow! thats amazing! Way to pogo!!

[greysmom]

bumping to the first page

[Guest asaccamora]

Buffy Update -

 

She had her first chemo ~ 10 days ago. She tolerated it pretty well without any side effects.

We had to wait for ~3weeks post surgery since her chest incision was healing slowly.

She has her personality back post tramadol and her endurance is getting there.

 

The bummer is that she has an elbow wound that is healing slow (chemo isn't helping but..)

She came home from the hospital with a pretty big scab on the pointy end of her right front elbow. My guess is she fell post surgery . She hasn't since, thankfully. The scab seemed intact till 2 weeks after surgery when the scab started pulled away from the skin and within a day it ended up reopening a quarter sized wound. The fact that its on her only functional front elbow isn't helping matters.

 

She seems to be dealing with 3 legs well. She can climb up stairs no problem but I have been hesitant to let her climb down stairs even with assistance.

[NeylasMom]

As many of you have seen from my other threads we are unfortunately rejoining this club.

 

I have a separate thread, but wanted to link to it here in case there is anyone who can respond to my inquiry about radiation treatments:

 

http://forum.greytalk.com/index.php/topic/317894-radiation-for-osteo/

[llm51807]

I'm sorry to hear about Zuri. We also have a lab in a greyhound suit; he's also a handsome black boy. But it's our perfect, roman-nosed, blue fawn gentleman, Cecil who was diagnosed with the dreaded osteo. Sounds like you've ruled out SRS and are leaning toward palliative radiation, but just in case you might find this info about our experience helpful, I'll share.

 

We are past 6 months since Cecil's diagnosis in November and approaching 6 months since his Cyberknife treatment. He had anesthesia for an MRI on a Tuesday and had the radiation treatment on a Wednesday also under anesthesia and that was it for the entire process. We drove to suburban Philadelphia for treatment and stayed a few days. He had no side effects from the anesthetic or the treatment.

 

Started chemo (5 rounds of Carboplatin) a week after Cyberknife (also well-tolerated). Started Zoledronate (biphosphonate) a few weeks ago (also easy).

 

He presented with a limp in November which was immediately controlled w/Rimadyl. X-rays were probable but not obvious for OSA. Apparently we caught it early which is why he was a Cyberknife candidate. We kept him on either Rimadyl or Tramadol (both low doses) this entire time and he had no pain. Last month he started limping, so we added Tramadol to the Rimadyl. He is still limping but not badly and his behavior is normal otherwise.

 

I wanted to get a look at the bone and see if we could see tumor progression so we could make a more informed decision on what to do next. (We hadn't gotten X-rays since the MRI before Cyberkife because they are not a very good indicator of the success or failure of the treatment since the bone will never look normal again). He doesn't do well with X-rays (like any of these big, leggy hounds do?). We got a chest X-ray and a shoulder X-ray today. Chest was clear but shoulder looked a little different, so could be result of radiation or could be active tumor which would be disappointing. Either way, the bone still looked pretty good, so we don't seem have an imminent fracture risk. That said, Cecil has not been offleash outdoors since his diagnosis and never could be (just something to consider with radiation vs amputation).

 

Our ortho vet was pleased with his condition considering we're 6 months in. She's sending everything to the Cyberknife vet - Dr. Siobhan Haney - to get her input on that shoulder Xray.

 

I'm almost certain SRS therapy is not a magic cure, but for dogs who are not amputation candidates (for whatever reason), it seems to be the alternative with the best outcomes, considering quality and quantity of life.

 

Cecil's tumor is in his shoulder (less fracture risk than other leg areas) and it was caught in the early stages of development. And, his tumor is more proliferative than lytic, so his fracture risk is lower. And, we have Trupanion insurance and they have paid 90% of everything. We approaching $10K at this stage. As with all treatments there are pros and cons and probably no single right answer for anyone. Until they can cure this awful disease, we humans will just have to do our best to choose the best of the not-so-good options available for our beloved greyhounds.

 

We'll probably stay the course and continue the zoledronate infusions every 21 days. We've also added in homeopathic therapy, a few supplements (Arteminisin and Curcumin) and fish oil. Depending on what Dr Haney says about the Xray, we might do another round of radiation (probably palliative) and perhaps add more pain meds. I'm just relieved based on X-rays there doesn't seem to be a high risk of fracture, if there would have been, we'd probably start preparing to say our goodbyes.

 

I hope this helps you in some way. No magic cure, but we've had 6 absolutely wonderful months with our boy and he's still happy and mostly pain-free.

 

I'd be happy to share any details if you like.

 

Hugs and kisses to your Zuri and to every osteo hound in this club. And peace and strength to you as you work through these decisions. It's really, really hard. I'm sorry.

[NeylasMom]

Thank you, this is indeed helpful. I am wondering why they are suggesting 3 treatments while you only had to do 1. Maybe based on tumor progression/ appearance? I will have to ask. If it were 2 sedations I would be much more inclined to pursue it. The risk of fracture is also a serious consideration for me and I am waiting to hear more based on his more detailed review of the CT.

 

I do wish Zuri had Healthy Paws like the girls, but there were less choices when I got him so he is stuck on the crappy VPI plan. I have been paying for double cancer coverage for years so there's that. Money is really not the hugest factor,but I do have to consider that I have 2 other dogs, including one who needs a dental and requires it be done with the vet dentist so $$$.

[llm51807]

Are you close enough to Philly to consider going to the same place we did? It sounded to me like their standard treatment plan was 1 treatment for OSA. It was the Veterinary Cyberknife Center, part of Hope Veterinary Specialists. They are in Malvern, PA. www.vetcyberknife.com. I couldn't believe how smoothly everything went and Dr Haney is wonderful. We're about a 6 hour drive away from there, so we stayed a few nights at an apartment-like hotel around the corner from the office. We brought our other hound as well since we don't like kenneling either of them.

 

We got a preauthorization done on the Cyberknife treatment from Trupanion - the vet's assistant, Julie handled all that for us and they paid 90% like everything else since.

 

Oh, and we also sent all of Cecil's records and films to Dr. Haney to review and I had a phone consultation with her before we physically went there. Ultimately, she's the one who decides if the dog is a candidate for Cyberknife. The bone has to be in good enough shape; if it has already been degraded significantly, it was my understanding she would have told us he wasn't a candidate. The treatment weakens the bone even more, thus the 30% fracture rate up to 6 months after treatment, plus the pathologic fracture risk from the tumor. Definitely a con and something I think about every day, which is why we just did the latest Xray check.

[NeylasMom]

Yes, I'm only an hr and a half away so Philly would be easy enough for us. I'm waiting for the vet to call me back so I can ask some follow-up questions and I hope he'll have an explanation regarding number of treatments. A big issue is timing, we need to get whatever treatment we choose done ASAP. I could try calling the Philly location today to at least get some info on availability. We have incredible vets and equipment available here in DC though so I'd really like to address this with the doctor we saw yesterday.

[tbhounds]

You might want to give Tricia a holler-that's the clinic that she took Murray to. I never heard of just one treatment for Osteo though. It's typically 3.

[llm51807]

Yep, Tricia did take Murray there. I talked with her before we took Cecil. I think Murray did have 3 treatments but he was being treated for a brain tumor.

 

I've heard Cyberknife has some supposed advantages to other "brands" of stereotactic radiation treatments and maybe that is why there is only 1 treatment vs 3. Not really sure, but something to ask the Cyberknife vet.

 

Also, they got us in in one week after I called. It all went very fast.

[NeylasMom]

Yep, Tricia did take Murray there. I talked with her before we took Cecil. I think Murray did have 3 treatments but he was being treated for a brain tumor.

 

I've heard Cyberknife has some supposed advantages to other "brands" of stereotactic radiation treatments and maybe that is why there is only 1 treatment vs 3. Not really sure, but something to ask the Cyberknife vet.

 

Also, they got us in in one week after I called. It all went very fast.

Well I called and despite it supposedly being when they're open, no answer. I left a message and no call back. I'll try again. I didn't think Cyberknife was actually different from stereotactic, I thought it was just a sort of trademark name. Their website does say 1-3 treatments, but it's not specific to tumor locations/types.

[tbhounds]

There are a few types of units/brands that are equipped for stereotactic radiation-cyberknife is only one-Varian Trilogy is another.....

It doesn't really apply to your case when radiating a limb but, you need to choose the correct machine when you are concentrating on a moving body part like lungs mets (breathing).