Osteo Thread Part 8

[llm51807]

Thanks so much for the quick reply, both of you. I'm going to add the extra Tramadol and possible add in the Tylenol later tonight if extra Tramadol doesn't help. He's 86lbs.

 

His tumor is/was in his right shoulder. Cecil is also weigh bearing because he also has the beginning of LS I believe which is why he wasn't a great amp candidate. I've just got to get him through the weekend to this next zoledronate treatment. I also upped his CBD oil, Jen. That's the medical cannabinoid you mentioned but in oil form. I thought I saw improvement from it when we added it in right away last month. As I said, he was doing SO well after his last acupuncture, CBD oil add-in, and zoledronate.

 

His fall on Saturday is why we are where we are. Honestly, if I thought there was active tumor in his shoulder and he was at this level of pain, I'm not sure we would even wait until Monday for the treatment. But because his X-rays in June showed no active tumor (because of the Cyberknife) I still have a sliver of hope this is injury and not cancer and that the zoledronate will continue to help.

 

Again, thank you both so much.

[NeylasMom]

Oh right, I totally missed that that's what it was, I think because the initials didn't make it obvious. I wasn't aware you could buy straight oil form either. Do you mind sharing which product you're using? I ordered the Canna Companion capsules but they are $$$.

 

I totally get where you are coming from with the injury. I'm in the same place. If this is just a set back because he slipped on the stairs or something odd happened during his treatment and we just need a few more days to get back to normal, great, but if his tumor is progressing and suddenly seemingly more quickly I don't want to prolong things. Thankfully he seems a lot more comfortable today, though certainly my not where I'd go back down on the meds. Its such a freaking guessing game.

 

Do you think there's any chance when he fell he did get a hairline fracture? They can sometimes be hard to see on x-ray. Really hope that isn't the case.

 

Or that he tweaked something else, like his neck? Is the pain obviously coming from his leg? Of it were something like his neck, a muscle relaxer might help. Zuri does take 500 mg Robaxin every 12 hours. He's been on that for a while for his LS because his muscles get so tight. I wasn't sure it was doing anything until he missed a dose. I actually talked to the vet about going to every 8 hours but it's one that is processed through the kidneys so she said she "wouldn't be excited about it".

 

ETA: Thank you both for checking in regularly and sharing what's going on. I'm hesitant to talk too much about the details of all of this with most people. It's nice to have people who "get it" to talk with. And I'm really rooting for both Cecil and Crouton.

Edited August 12, 2016 by NeylasMom

[llm51807]

We the RX Vitamins for Pets HempRx. We got it from our holistic vet, but you might be able to order online. I know CannaPet also sells the oil. The Rx Vitamins oil is $99 for .83 fluid oz. Very pricey, but I bought 3 more bottles after it seemed to help so much last time.

 

It's entirely possible he has a fracture, but I haven't taken him for xrays. I'm usually quick to make vet appointments, but my vet is on vacation and the ortho vet can't see him until Wed next week, and I'm not sure what could be done even if it is a fracture. He's been walking on it and seemed relatively OK on Monday this week and even at dinner last night seemed to be better. My thinking was I could take him the ER vet for an Xray and then what? They'd have to manipulate him for the exam and the X-ray and you know how that goes. This zoledronate on Monday is really our last hope regardless of what's going on and I just need to try to keep him comfortable until then and hopefully that kicks in. If he's not better by Wed, we've got an appointment with our ortho vet and we'll get her opinion and most likely an Xray and then we'll make a decision on what to do.

 

I'm trying to be calm and realistic about his options, but it's getting tough. And it's killing me this is because of a fall. I get made fun of a lot because of how careful I am; I just can't believe this happened. We've gone through so much and we've been so careful. I'm not really talking to anyone about this but with you two (and anyone else following along!). I'd be out of my mind right now without this forum. And even in my panic, I'm so rooting for Zuri and Crouton along with Cecil. Our Zoledronate Trio

[NeylasMom]

Yes, that all makes sense and echos everything I'm feeling. My mom asked today about an x-ray, but right now I'm in the same boat. The ortho we see is very good about being gentle when taking x-rays, but there is always a bit of discomfort afterward. If this isn't his tumor progressing, that would be the worst thing we could do. I am thinking it will be apparent either way within a few days and if not, we'll consider the x-ray more seriously.

 

It's funny, my biggest fear since we got on track with the Zoledronate has been that something stupid would happen that would mean I'd have to let him go sooner than expected. Which is why the toe has been freaking me out. I guess maybe it's a control thing. A reality check that just when you think you have things managed and under control something bad happens. But that's the reality of this disease - it's unpredictable. Regardless of the outcome with Cecil, I hope you don't blame yourself for this. I've said all along if we can't let them do the things they enjoy, it's not worth it. Perhaps you could have been even more careful. You could have kept him in a crate or pen anytime he wasn't leashed and under supervision, but what kind of life would that be long term? Of course, this is easier for me to say. If this whole debacle is because I waited too long on the Zoledronate when I had a choice to do it sooner, I will have a hard time forgiving myself. Waiting past 4 weeks was okay. But whether to do it at 5 or wait one more week I really waffled, and because of the timing of when he started to seem like he needed it I knew we were pushing it but I thought, well at least we'll know moving forward. But I didn't think we'd end up here.

Edited August 12, 2016 by NeylasMom

[Guest Roux]

The reason Crouton is more comfortable with her med schedule is because of the sharing from you two and the other wonderful people who chimed in on the Zoledronic Acid forum. I actually took some quotes with dosages ya'll were using to my vet, and we changed Crouton's dosages to more closely match. It is not that my vet wouldn't have made increases and worked to find a better balance. But, since you already had so much of it worked out, we were able to go to something that really helped right away. Thank you both for that.

 

Every day, I ask myself what part of all our efforts are for Crouton, and what part is just for the humans. As long as I can honestly answer that it is mostly for her, I can find some peace. If making her have less pain allows her to sprint across the yard again, I should probably celebrate that instead of wanting to keep it from happening. But, we all know the possible consequences of fracture, and I don't think I would ever forgive myself if I allowed something like that to happen. It is a fine, fine line, isn't it? Knowing both when and how to cross it is so extremely hard.

[llm51807]

Thank you Jen. I'm also feeling bad about not x-raying right after the fall, so your words are comforting. And you are right, I could never keep him crated in the house all day. What's the sense in that? Thank you.

 

As for you waiting on this last treatment, I'm sure the Zoledronate will kick in soon and next time you won't wait. All this beating ourselves up is hard work. And watching our beloved hounds in pain on top of it can be almost unbearable. I can barely eat and I've heard you two say you can barely sleep. Just hoping for some more good time for all of them so we can enjoy and love them a little longer.

[NeylasMom]

It sure is! I have taken Simply Sleep the last 3 nights and that has helped a bit. Doesn't help me to get to sleep so I still sometimes lay awake for quite some time worrying or doing some sort of often overkill internet research (last night's Canna Companion order was placed at 1:37 am ), but once asleep I am sleeping more deeply until Zuri's med alarm goes off. But my IBS is a mess from the stress. I already take l-theanine for anxiety and when Zuri was diagnosed doubled my dose. I am planning to try triple (the max dose) today just to get me through this rough patch. But I have learned that my stress and anxiety is directly related to how Zuri is feeling so I keep telling myself this is temporary.

 

I'm glad I could be of help in any way to either of you. And Roux, it makes me really happy to hear that you were able to take what was recommended in your thread and go to your vet and see some improvement as a result.

[Guest Roux]

Wondering how Cecil and Zuri are feeling tonight. Did the extra meds help Cecil? Is Zuri doing a bit better? Hope to find out in the morning.

 

Heading for (hopefully) a brief nap until the alarm tells me it is time to give the next round of meds to my sweet girl.

[llm51807]

We had pretty good night, but that's only because I let him sleep in bed with me. It's his favorite place but has alway been invitation-only. It's really hurting him to get up from lying down and he seems more settled in our bed than anywhere, so that's where we'll be spending time today as well. I can't stand the crying out when he gets up.

 

We've decided we'll get his zoledronate treatment on Monday, we have an ortho vet appointment on Wed for her input, and then we'll decide what to do. If we don't see improvement by the end of the week, we've decided we'll say goodbye. He's in pain and unless we can get it under control and have a reasonable expectation that he's going to get past whatever is going on with his shoulder (is it a small fracture, large fracture, bone bruise, or who knows maybe the tumor is active again), we can't let him go on like this or be so drugged up that he has no quality of life.

 

Doing a lot of spooning my boy and bawling my eyes out. He's quiet and comfortable in the bed and I know he's happy to have me with him. DH stayed with him this morning while I went to the gym and for a run so I could have a break. I'm back at it and we'll do this until Monday at Noon.

 

I sure hope Crouton and Zuri are doing better.

[NeylasMom]

I'm so sorry Lori (it is Lori, right?) I really hope you're able to turn things around.

 

Thanks for checking in on Zuri. We are doing as well as we can be I suppose. No sudden shocking improvements, but he's a tiny bit better than he was yesterday and yesterday he was a tiny bit better than the day before. So I'm at least a bit more comfortable with this as a brief holding pattern until we see if the Zoledronate works and maybe a *tiny* bit more hopeful that it will. Miniscule may be a better word. He had his massage today too so that should help. And we are making good progress on his toe. I literally worked from home yesterday solely to be able to do wound care taking. Its quite the process between soaking, then needing to keep him from licking while his foot dries, then once the foot is dry I do the bandage with the strip of cotton filled gauze running between his toes that goes on to keep the nail from rubbing and I apply the Trypzyme gel to the wound and then I let that soak in for a while and sry and only then can I put the sock on. But since I stayed home, I was able to leave it sockless for much longer and just let it get air and dry out. So it's about half its original size. I didn't have time to soak it this morning, but they cold lasered it while we were in for his massage and I will soak and treat later tonight. Far too much info I'm sure.

 

Anyway, point being, we're hanging in there and holding out until Tuesday. By then the hemp stuff will be here too so I can try that if I want. Zuri's physical therapist told me she had a client that used a product from CannaPet who was able to take her dog off NSAIDs after starting the hemp product. This was a lab with arthritis.

 

Crouton update?

Edited August 13, 2016 by NeylasMom

[Guest Roux]

So glad to hear from both of you! The news about Cecil is not as improved as I had hoped. But, he must be delighting in all the closeness, warmth, and love you are giving him. That is the best medicine there is. I will be anxious to see how things go this week for him. Your timeline sounds very well thought-out, Lori. I am certainly hoping your ortho vet can tell you something definitive about Cecil's shoulder. I know you will make all the right decisions along the way.

 

It sounds like Zuri is on the mend again. Incremental improvement is at least not going backwards! That toe! What is that old saying – that it is not the big things that defeat us, but when you get up in the morning and your shoelace breaks...

 

Crouton is rocking along with no real changes. Doing well through the night, eating well, going out to potty well, and still not putting weight on that hind leg. It was one week yesterday that she had her first Zoledronate treatment, and I do see some indications that she is willing to take a few more "risks", such as walking onto the kitchen floor ("the ice") when she could stay back on carpet in the doorway, or on the throw rugs in front of the hounds' dishes. I assume that means she is feeling a little better than before. I also noticed that when I put my hand on the skin over the bone where the tumor is, that entire area, the size of my palm, is quite warm. There is not any redness, like you would have with inflammation, and there is no swelling. Also, she does not seem particularly sensitive to being touched there. It is just quite warm, like the forehead of a child with a high fever. Could that be the Zoledronate working on the bone, or is it just the tumor? I like to think it is the former.

 

Time to feed the pack! Cecil and Zuri will be in my thoughts.

[Guest Roux]

Wow – I finally figured out how to make my signature appear so you can see my three hound family members. Wanted you to get to see Crouton, especially. She really is a lovely girl.

[NeylasMom]

No idea on the warmth. I thought I noticed some at one point and then decided it was my imagination.

 

Can I just say, what I wouldn't give to be able to give Zuri his meds now and just roll into bed and sleep until I woke up. I had big plans to watch the last episodes of Game of Thrones and drink lots of wine and just have a mindless sort of fun evening, and instead I can barely keep my eyes open. The girls have been fully pottied and medicated so I am just waiting to potty and medicate him at midnight. Of course once I do that I'm sure I'll be awake.

 

Seriously, not complaining really, I'm so grateful he's here and I would make any sacrifices I could to keep it that way, but man am I tired. Doing this alone really sucks sometimes. Tomorrow is my day off though so hopefully I can get a good nap in.

Edited August 14, 2016 by NeylasMom

[NeylasMom]

ETA: I had to switch over to the full site (on my phone, mobile app doesn't show siggies) to see Crouton. Just like people, not what I thought she would look like. I think I expected Crouton to be fawn. But she's a beauty.

Edited August 14, 2016 by NeylasMom

[Guest Roux]

Really feel for you having to stay up until midnight, Jen. Last night I needed to give meds at 10pm, but by 8:45 I just couldn't keep my eyes open. So, I set the alarm, it rang, I woke up and turned it off, and then sat up with a start at midnight! I was two hours late giving Crouton her meds! I felt horrible about it, but she seemed okay the rest of the night, and has been fine today. Thankfully, it was a little cooler here today, so spending time outside was quite a bit more pleasant during those potty breaks.

 

Roux, our first greyhound, died of a heart attack in her 7th year. I had just been in the same room with her 10 minutes before, when I heard Niels howling from the other end of the house. It was so sad and impossible to believe. We had had her since she was about 1 1/2 years old. She had been a track/training washout. My theory is they didn't give her up because she was slow, but because she really startled at loud noises. She was also terrified of thunder, as are many dogs. She was raised on the plains in far-western Oklahoma where the storms are particularly ruthless, as was Niels. Lots of tornadoes and severe thunderstorms. You'd be a little crazy not to be terrified of storms after living through some of those. She was a marker, oddly enough. I thought that usually indicated dominance. Almost none of my greyhound contact had heard of a female that marked. Thankfully, she saved all of that for outside the house. But she was also a grinner the entire first year she was with us. Doesn't that indicate submissiveness? She was pretty wound-up at first, so maybe she was just a little confused. Roux grew into a very calm, strong adult who was the pack leader, even when Niels joined us, in spite of the fact that he was much bigger.

 

The Niels story is an interesting one I will share sometime later. Think "Longdog" or "American Staghound".

 

Hope you get some good sleep!

[llm51807]

Roux, thanks for posting about your pack. Crouton is beautiful and reading about your family made me smile this morning. Jen, I hope you at least got your wine time in last night! I'm not sure I could do this alone; this is so hard, even with support.

 

We had another bad night and a really bad morning. He cries in pain and panic when he has to get up from lying down. We can't get ahead of his pain. He's fine once he's down, but getting up/down and walking is painful. He's still eating like normal - he's always been a chow hound. Our appointment for the zoledronate is at Noon tomorrow, but we're pretty sure we'll take him in and say goodbye instead. This is too much for him. Our hearts are breaking, but we can't put him through anymore days like the last few waiting for the treatment to work....maybe.

 

We'll spend the day together cuddling and eating ice cream.

 

I hope Zuri and Crouton had good nights; I'd sure love to hear some good news today.

[45MPHK9]

Lori and Gino, I'm so sorry to read your update. Thinking about you.

[NeylasMom]

I'm so so sorry Lori. My heart is breaking for you guys. He is clearly so loved and lucky to have you guys.

 

We're about the same over here. The massage definitely helped and the diligence with the toe wound is paying off. I almost skipped his morning soak, but decided to do it to be safe. Even after soaking the wound is pretty dried up so that's good. I'm not letting up though. Once accidental nail rubbing or licking episode and I know we could back to square one.

 

So it's just the question of the leg and the Zoledronate. Trying not to think too much about it for now. I really wish x-rays were possible without the likelihood of increasing his pain. Still manage plenty of time to berate myself daily for delaying the Zoledronate though. Going to be a lot of what ifs if we don't bounce back from this.

 

Lori, what time is your appt tomorrow? And where do you live (what time zone)?

[llm51807]

Lori and Gino, I'm so sorry to read your update. Thinking about you.

 

Thanks Tricia. I know you know what this feels like. We appreciate your thoughts. I'm so glad Cecil got to meet someone from GT; you are our witness to his beauty. Thank you.

[NeylasMom]

I would love to see photos of Cecil if you're up for sharing them.

Edited August 14, 2016 by NeylasMom

[45MPHK9]

Hope it's ok if I post this, Lori. This Cecil back in December when we were lucky enough to meet the whole family.

[llm51807]

We're in Eastern time and our appointment is Noon tomorrow; thank you for asking. I know my Osteo Thread Sisters will be think of us at that time. I can't tell you how much this is helping me right now.

 

As far as photos, after all these years, I only figured out how to post photos here once and then I forgot! Are you on Instagram? I've taken hundreds (maybe thousands!) of photos of my boys and there are quite a few on Instagram. My name on IG is "greyhoundie."

[45MPHK9]

Lori and Cecil

[llm51807]

Hope it's ok if I post this, Lori. This Cecil back in December when we were lucky enough to meet the whole family.

Thanks Tricia! I was hoping you'd do that. Hard to believe I'm in the technology business and I can't figure out how to post photos on here!

[4My2Greys]

Saying goodbye is the hardest part of loving them. Lori, I am so sorry. I will be thinking of you and Cecil throughout today, but especially tomorrow.