Help. Dog Bite And Threats To Call Animal Control

[antisense]

I'm in a real panic about what to do.

 

Last week I was taking JJ out to potty and a lady who lives in my apartment held the door open for us. She was carrying her pet dachshund. I stupidly let him get close to the other dog so they could sniff because he was acting calm, but curious. Unexpectedly when they were nose to nose he snapped at the other dog and bit him in the muzzle. I've been told it is not a serious bite. There was bleeding from a puncture and there was some swelling, but it has healed now and the dog is fine. I offered to pay for any veterinary costs if the owner thought her dog needed it, but so far this has not been required.

 

I am back to muzzling when we are outside of our unit though I am only keeping the muzzle on within a one block radius (because I am still concerned about my own dog's safety if we get attacked) and I will put it back on if there is an unavoidable meeting with an unfamiliar dog.

 

My unit is right beside the lobby and I have no choice but to overhear conversations that happen there. Today I overhead the lady telling someone that my dog was vicious and that he bit her dog and that she's been thinking of calling animal control. I've also overheard her at other times her telling random neighbors that my dog needs to wear a muzzle because he is dangerous.

 

I am now very scared that she will call animal control. I know things usually do not go well for the "aggressor dog" when that happens.

 

I have not personally talked to the lady since it happened. She is an elderly woman, and she likes to sit in the lobby in her spare time. She stares me down when she sees me and doesn't say anything to me. I'm a little uncomfortable to leave my unit when I know she's there.

 

I've been trying to socialize JJ with other dogs (greeting, then treating) and it has been going well. Mainly it has been big dogs, usually friendly golden retrievers.

 

I know JJ is not trustworthy around cats (he goes into hunt mode and wants to chase them), but I was never sure about small dogs until now.

 

JJ is up to date on all his shots (of course). He's a registered dog with my city.

 

I'm really, really, really scared that the city is going to take my dog. I am familiar with the dog laws in my province and I know it doesn't take much for a dog to be deemed "a menace" to the public. Even a growl at the wrong person is damming to the dog if the person who was growled at makes a big enough deal out of it.

 

Really not sure what to do to protect myself and my dog. And unfortunately I'm going to be at work for the next 8 hours so I can't even keep up with the comments here except occasionally on my phone.

[DaisyDoodle]

Get your dog out of the municipality IMMEDIATELY and contact Robin at the Lexus Project.

[Acadianarose]

I really don't think a bite on the nose of another dog will warrant animal control taking your dog. Was your dog leashed?

[Houndtime]

Robin will tell you, "DO NOT TURN YOUR DOG OVER TO ANYONE". It can become very difficult to get your dog back from the authorities. I think the lady might just be making conversation with neighbors. Perhaps she is lonely. Doument everything as you remember. She refused taking the dog to the vet, she was holding the dog over your dog's head, etc.

[Time4ANap]

If she wasn't concerned enough about her dog to even have a vet check him out, she isn't much of a dog owner. Personally, I'd tell her that if I hear her tell one more person that my dog is vicious, she can expect a letter from my attorney. But then, I don't like people much anyway.

[Guest IrskasMom]

I really think , you should confront the Lady Head on , if and what she is planning to do. Is she taking Action or is she just " talking ". If she is taking Action , you would like to hear it from her , so you can protect yourself to..

[lukasmom]

I agree, contact the Lexas Project immediately before you do anything!!! Please- they know exactly what to do to keep your hound safe. Please take this advice.

[greytpups]

Without pictures, vet bills, etc., she doesn't have any proof. Even if her dog has a scar, it's unlikely she can prove your dog did it unless there were eyewitnesses. It's also been a week so I would think the longer she waits, the less of an issue it will become with AC.

 

Honestly, if it were me, I would let it go if AC doesn't contact you and continue your training. I would contact the Lexus project and ask for advice and include every little detail. You need to have your dog under control at all times so you are at fault, even if her dog stared at your dog first which is an aggressive behaviour in the dog world.

 

If AC does contact you Robin or Rich can advise you about this. Personally, at this point I would never agree to a bite without proof. But it's unlikely AC will take JJ from you for something that can't be proven, however you may get a warning.

 

Although I don't know what or if JJ has issues with bite inhibition, one of the dog's provoked the other. It probably happened very quickly but you did see them stare at each other. There were probably other signs, but I don't know for sure since I wasn't there. You need to very diligent and relax so JJ doesn't pick up on your anxiousness now.

 

Some people on our street made negative comments about our first greyhound after she bit their dog after they dropped the leash and she bit it badly enough that it required stitches. And no, we did not pay the vet bill since their dog was not under their control. btw, no one believed them because they only saw her gentle nature. If JJ always displays calm, relaxed body language, that will speak for itself. I would ignore her comments. Perhaps she's waiting for an apology, it's hard to know what she's thinking. I can't imagine AC wanting to take your dog from you without proof, but it may depend on what you admit to.

 

eta: I see other people have suggested you talk to her directly. I would talk to Robin and Rich first since talking to her may suggest guilt on your part... just my

Edited December 29, 2013 by greytpups

[Guest MnMDogs]

If she wasn't concerned enough about her dog to even have a vet check him out, she isn't much of a dog owner. Personally, I'd tell her that if I hear her tell one more person that my dog is vicious, she can expect a letter from my attorney. But then, I don't like people much anyway.

 

I like this approach.

[antisense]

I've talked with my building superintendent after making tjis post as i ran onto him on my way out. He says this was an isolated "freak accident" as he put it. He says the authorities will take his word over a resident and JJ has never been written up before and has never received any complaints.

He also says this particular resident likes to wag her lips a lot and that I should relax.

 

Im thinking of contacting my adoption group (who is a few cities away) to see if I could let JJ stay there in case the lady does pursue this further.

[antisense]

I really don't think a bite on the nose of another dog will warrant animal control taking your dog. Was your dog leashed?

He was leashed but I had gone through the door first so I was a few feet ahead of him.

[MaryJane]

I might suggest .....

 

1. Don't talk to the lady - that can stir up more trouble.

2. Talk to the Lexus Project.

3. Talk to your adoption group just in case you need to "park" your dog there.

4. Do not let anyone into your apartment from the town.

5. Do not hand over the dog to anyone.

6. Document everything.

 

Chances are that this will not go "anywhere" but, better to be prepared.

 

Forgot to mention -- do not talk to any of your neighbors about this and that would include the landlord. Less said the better. While it might sound like he is on your side, you can't know for certain.

Edited December 29, 2013 by MaryJane

[jenners]

I might suggest .....

 

1. Don't talk to the lady - that can stir up more trouble.

2. Talk to the Lexus Project.

3. Talk to your adoption group just in case you need to "park" your dog there.

4. Do not let anyone into your apartment from the town.

5. Do not hand over the dog to anyone.

6. Document everything.

 

Chances are that this will not go "anywhere" but, better to be prepared.

 

Forgot to mention -- do not talk to any of your neighbors about this and that would include the landlord. Less said the better. While it might sound like he is on your side, you can't know for certain.

 

This.

 

Talking to this woman will not end well. Talking to neighbors becomes a you-vs.-her situation. Keep quiet, set up a safe place for JJ to go if he has to.

 

Jennie

Edited December 30, 2013 by jenners

[GreyhoundGirl]

I agree with the others about talking to the Lexus Project (although I don't know anything about them except what I've read here). It sounds like if nothing else they may allay some of your fears. I think your building super made some good points as well. As much as I'd confront the woman it would just get her riled up and that would do no good. I don't know what kind of relationship you have with your adoption group. I have a good one with mine so I would call someone and give them a heads up just to let them know what happened. I truly think this woman is just flapping her lips and it's not going to go anywhere. I'm so sorry you and JJ are going through this.

[RedHead]

I have never heard of AC taking a dog because of a minor (not requiring vet care) bite towards another dog. They may ask for proof of vaccinations, but unless there are multiple incidents, I don't think they will do much other than give you a warning. My dad was recently nipped by a large dog while out running, and even with that they just asked if the dog was vaccinated (my dad didn't pursue further). This lady will probably be annoying/awkward to live around, but I wouldn't worry too much about AC.

[greysmom]

This woman sounds bitter and lonely and bored. If you try and talk with her about this, it may spur her to further action, when now, it's just her trying to get attention from the neighbors. Even an overactive AC is going to have to have proof of *something* before they can remove a dog from a home.

 

Yes, contact the Lexus Project, though I'm not sure if they extend their assistance to Canada, they will be able to help you calm down. Be vigilant in all of your interactions with your neighbors, and try to make them as positive as possible. The more people understand your dog and his issues, and that you are continuing to work on them, the better it will be.

[Acadianarose]

He was leashed but I had gone through the door first so I was a few feet ahead of him.

Often when there is an "attack", the dog was off leash and AC cites the owner with a leash violation, which is why I asked. Since JJ wasn't even off leash, I don't think you have anything to worry about.

[antisense]

Often when there is an "attack", the dog was off leash and AC cites the owner with a leash violation, which is why I asked. Since JJ wasn't even off leash, I don't think you have anything to worry about.

What scares me is that even if an animal is on leash the owner/dog can be deemed dangerous because it "was not under control". And according to the behaviorist we saw last year, a dog can be deemed a menace for just barking aggressively.

 

I will certainly see if the Lexus project can give any advise on what not to do/say and how to proceed

 

Thanks everyone.

[Acadianarose]

My dogs were attacked in our front yard by an unleashed dog a couple of months ago while we were walking them and DD ended up with a broken hand. It was a second offense but the owner just received a leash violation.

 

We have had so many dog bite cases at work, and I can only recall 2 where the dog was put down. Obviously, we live in different areas, but I can't see anything really serious coming of this. Of course, be prepared for the worst.

[jetcitywoman]

Everybody else has great advice so I just want to address your feelings and trust in JJ now. In reading your first post, I thought he sounded exactly like my Ajax and it was also a situation that I had with Ajax a couple times although the other dogs didn't need stitches. There is something triggerish to a dog's prey drive when you pick up another animal. I think it's natural to think that if you hold the smaller animal, you can protect it more than if it was on the ground, but that's not the case. Especially when your houndies are as tall as you are when they rear up on two legs! The lesson being, while you should work on socializing JJ to other animals and learn to trust him again, just remember to never pick up another small animal.

[antisense]

Thank you to everyone for your comments. You've given me some much needed perspective on this.

 

I did some research into the municipal animal laws today, and it seems for dogs, for a bite infraction all that AC can do is order the dog to be muzzled (not a big deal at all!). It doesn't say under what circumstances an animal will be seized. However, there are some very violent dogs in my building

 

I'm not sure if I need to contact the Lexus Project anymore as I don't want to bother them when they have more serious things to deal with.

 

@jetcitywoman, I think you're totally right on with triggering something when holding an animal. We have no small animals in our home, but certainly when I'm holding a toy or other item, it becomes MUCH more interesting than if it was on the ground. So perhaps that just made the small dog so much more interesting, which pushed him over the edge?

 

I really wish I had been right next to him at the time so I could have stopped it happening when I saw the signs, or at least have seen what happened exactly. I was looking at the woman because I was talking to her. I never even saw the bite, just heard the woman shout so I pulled my dog away. She walked away and I went in the other direction because JJ was highly aroused. I never saw what the bite looked like and I haven't seen her dog since.

 

Crazy mix of emotions this past week. I'm no longer panicky about losing my dog, but I'm still deeply unhappy about this gossipy old woman.

[a_daerr]

We have no small animals in our home, but certainly when I'm holding a toy or other item, it becomes MUCH more interesting than if it was on the ground. So perhaps that just made the small dog so much more interesting, which pushed him over the edge?

 

Yes, 100%. When I read originally read this post, that was my very first thought. Holding the dog in her arms made it super interesting. When J.J. got close enough, it either triggered a prey response, or he simply snapped out of surprise. I wouldn't consider this a vicious or unprovoked bite. Just to give you an example, one of my dogs is safe with our cats. He loves them, cuddles with them, etc. But the second I pick one up, he's jumping and nipping at their feet. That woman's dog will be safer if she puts it on the ground and treats it like a dog, not a baby.

[BatterseaBrindl]

No advice... except I would not speak to the lady.

 

And yes... The fact that the little dog was in her arms would made it look quite interesting to JJ.... I know how much he loves his stuffies and squeakies....and for all he knew the little dog was a toy.

 

Now...just breathe.....

Ooooohhhmmmmmm

 

from my pack.

[GeorgeofNE]

^{Maybe things are different in Canada, but if your dog was leashed, you really didn't do anything wrong or illegal. Simply avoid other dogs and there should be no problem. My George doesn't like ANY dog that isn't a Greyhound. It's not a problem for me. I simple keep him on a short leash when other dogs are around and tell people, "I'm sorry, he only likes Greyhounds" (which is less threatening than "he's not friendly"). When I'm in confined quarters with other dogs, e.g. the ferry to Nantucket, I do muzzle him.}

 

^{Even dogs who like small dogs sometimes don't do well when the dog is being held. It doesn't seem to register with them that it's a dog.}

 

^{I WOULD speak to your neighbor. I'd bring her some cookies, and ask how her dog is doing. I'd mention that you had heard a rumor that she was considering reporting the incident, and ask her to reconsider.}

 

^{If she's a lonely older lady, then she is probably just mad that you haven't contacted her to ask about her dog.}

[jetcitywoman]

@jetcitywoman, I think you're totally right on with triggering something when holding an animal. We have no small animals in our home, but certainly when I'm holding a toy or other item, it becomes MUCH more interesting than if it was on the ground. So perhaps that just made the small dog so much more interesting, which pushed him over the edge?

 

Thank you for getting my point even though what I wrote was really, really muddled! LOL, I don't know why other than I was in a hurry and didn't get to edit myself for clarity. Anyway, yes. I wouldn't even call it "over the edge" because that sounds like insanity. But you can call me pedantic for that, I don't mind.

 

I've had a few situations with Ajax where some little unleashed thing comes running under my dog's legs when we're on a leash walk. Because the little ones are inevitabely hyper and yappy and sometimes even jump up on my dog's heads, I have picked them up to try to remove the annoying thing from my dogs. But having the pup in my arms triggers Ajax to try to bite it even more than when it was on the ground being annoying. I honestly don't know the solution; I guess they're marginally safer on the ground even though if he decided to eat one in one bite, he'd do it much faster than I could prevent. He hasn't caused any damage in those situations where I picked them up, but I did see that he was biting at their rear legs/tails, i.e. the parts he could easily reach.