Help. My New Grey Is; Is My New Grey Threatening My Kids? (Long Post)

[Guest BikeBookBread]

1324652183[/url]' post='5117697']

Oh, you did see the event, ok. Then if you saw the event, did you think it was acceptable for a child of 6 years of age to walk up to an 80 pound dog and attempt to take something from its mouth?

 

I really don't mean to sound snarky, (this is the wife again), but why would you ever think that I think it is acceptable for my daughter to walk up to Chase? She was disobedient. Kids disobey. No child is perfect. We simply are asking for advice.

[kamsmom]

Chad - you aren't helping. You are just antagonizing.

 

You have knowledge and advice to give but maybe try a softer approach . It will be accepted a lot easier if you are nice and not condescending.

[krissy]

I only want to point out that brushing teeth once a week isn't enough, it should be daily. My vet has an article about the health issues not brushing can cause in the long run, I will post once I have it.

 

Agreed. Teeth need to be brushed at most every 24 hours if it is going to do anything. This is because it takes plaque 24 hours to harden into tartar (which is not removed by brushing alone). If you brush less frequently than once a day then there is really no point brushing at all. It's easy to get into a routine of brushing every day though! People are in awe when I tell them I brush Summit's teeth every day, but it's a routine and it needs to be done so now it's no big deal.

 

Every night before bed I brush my own teeth and put on my PJs. Then I get a dehydrated duck foot, dog tooth paste, and the dog's tooth brush (and now his eye drops since he gets those once a day too). I ask him to lay down on his bed then I brush his teeth, put in his eye drops, give him his duck foot for his special treat and we all go to bed. Takes 2 minutes and if I go to bed without doing it something feels wrong.

 

Won't add to the advice about the growling as you've gotten lots of great advice and I would simply be repeating. Plus I have no actual experience. My dog has no space issues and you can do or take anything from him. This morning I invited him into bed to spoon with me after my BF left for work.

[Guest Greyt_dog_lover]

I am not trying to be antagonistic, it is my direct approach that seems to elicit this response (on a regular basis around here). I apologize for the way I came across. The point that I am trying to establish is:

 

1) the hound did nothing wrong

2) the responsibility of all interaction is 100% with the parent

 

 

3) if you accept the above two sentences as true, then there is no way to justify the statement "aggressive dog" and insinuate giving the hound back because it is reacting in an appropriate manner to inappropriate behavior of a child.

 

As someone else said here, when I was young, if a dog growled at me, my parents asked what I did to deserve it. In the same vein of ANY adult could discipline a child doing something wrong. Now a days, if you yell at someone else's kid when you see them doing something wrong, YOU are the bad person. It seems that our society has changed its view at responsibility for one's actions.

 

 

I did give advise about obtaining books that relate directly to the topic of appropriate interaction between young children and new dogs. I unfortunately cant name any right now, if I could, I would.

[Batmom]

All, thank you very much for your responses. There is definitely a common thread of advice to include: the dog and family are still learning the ropes with each other; respect dog space and things; mom and dad should deal with issues such as retrieving items from dog; training, time, and consistently following the rules can alleviate 99% of problems; another dog is not necessarily going to fix issues in the end.

 

As new greyhound owners we want to do the right thing, and sometimes the way ahead is not obvious if you haven't been there before.

 

You're on the right road, then . It can be hard in the beginning to enforce the rules with younger kids (more the 6 year old than the 8 year old) -- they WANT to be with the dog, touch the dog, interact with the dog, at a time when the dog may be a little distracted / glassy eyed with the newness of everything. Couple months down the road, it'll be habit for you, habit for the kids, and the dog will have settled in some.

 

It can be helpful to involve the kids in things like grooming the dog (you do it a couple times alone first to make sure there are no touchy spots), feeding the dog, taking the dog to obedience classes later on. Those things give the kids a chance to interact more closely with the dog when the dog is up on his feet and ready to be messed with, as well as helping the dog learn how the children move and sound.

[Yamaha_gurl]

I haven't read through the whole thread, but while everyone is getting adjusted, why not have him wear his muzzle? He's raced sooo much, he's quite use to it...he might even get happier cause he thinks he's gonna race

[AKennelFull]

Chad and Stephanie,

 

Please contact me directly at actgreyhounds@cfl.rr.com

 

I run an adoption group that works with Sanford Orlando and I just talked to the trainer and her assistant from the racing kennel that Chase was in.

 

Kathy

ACT Greyhound Adoptions

[4My2Greys]

I wanting to say welcome to GT and that your response to the incident was one of the most level headed from new adopters. I think you have been given some great advice from others on this board and I hope to be reading more from you in the future.

[Guest happygrey]

1324652183[/url]' post='5117697']

Oh, you did see the event, ok. Then if you saw the event, did you think it was acceptable for a child of 6 years of age to walk up to an 80 pound dog and attempt to take something from its mouth?

 

I really don't mean to sound snarky, (this is the wife again), but why would you ever think that I think it is acceptable for my daughter to walk up to Chase? She was disobedient. Kids disobey. No child is perfect. We simply are asking for advice.

Of course no kids are perfect...don't worry about it. When we first adopted my daughter was 8. We definitely worked with the trade/drop it command and told her that she needed to come to us if one of the greys had one of her toys. We also talked with her about how important it was to leave them alone if they were resting or sleeping on their beds. She's now 10 and can totally hold her own with them (the 2 we have who are "thieves" respond to her "Drop it!" command) and has become really confident around the dogs.

 

I don't think Chase is threatening your kids. I think they just made a mistake and learned what happens when the dog has something it considers high value. I am just glad that nothing really bad happened (like a bite) but sorry that they now feel scared/upset with Chase.

 

Good luck!

[philospher77]

 

Your daughter made a mistake and and the best thing about mistakes is that we can learn from them. I totally agree with Silverfish about the lessons that can be learned from having a dog. Children often tend to be selfish (please don't take this the wrong way) and if something is theirs, it is theirs whether they want it at that moment or not. How many times have you seen a child grab a toy from another child just because they picked it up?

 

 

Just a thought. Explaining it this way to the 6-year-old might help her feel better. Surely she has had friends/her sister take a prized possession of hers. Surely she has behaved less-than-perfectly at some time when that happened: pushed, hit, yelled, etc. But later, she didn't feel the same way towards the person. Then you can explain that Chase is like that. When he has something that he thinks is his, he is going to be upset if someone tries and take it, and is going to act like that. But that doesn't mean that he doesn't like her, or is being "mean". He's just like a little kid who hasn't gotten to be as old and well-behaved as she is, and mommy and daddy are going to be working with him to learn better manners, the same way that she did as she got older. And that she and her sister can help him learn these manners by not going by him on his bed, getting mommy/daddy when he takes something that he shouldn't have, and teaching all their friends the rules.

 

To a certain degree, it's probably a lot of what you had to go through with the 8-year-old when her baby sister started trying to play with the older one's toys, etc. If they both get along most of the time now, the same approach will probably help your daughter get over her scare, and help her realize that this isn't something that could happen just randomly. I would also try and teach her that if the dog freezes, gets hard-eyed, or growls, that is him saying that he is uncomfortable and that she needs to stop and get you at that point. If you give her some tools that she can use, it may help her feel more in control, and then she is less likely to be scared.

 

And here a video from Dr. Sophia Yin about dogs and biting that you might find helpful, especially the last bit about dogs and kids:

http://drsophiayin.com/resources/video_full/why_dogs_bite1

 

Hope this is helpful!

[Guest Scouts_mom]

Wecome to GT! You have been getting great advice, but there are a couple of things I want to add.

 

First if your dog had wanted to bite your daughter, he would have. His growling was only to try to get her to go away. So he was really being a good dog!

 

Next, you say you have had him for just over a month. That is the time that I find dogs are comfortable enough to start trying to find their place in the family pack and they are more likely to growl at the kids. He needs to learn that kids outrank him. The easiest way to do this is to have the child be the giver of good things, like dinner and treats. While your daughter is probably too young to mix his dinner, let her be the one that gives the bowl of food to the dog (and then have her move away so he can eat in peace). Also have her be the giver of treats. Finally, while she is too young and not strong enough to leash walk him on a street, let her leash walk him in your fenced back yard ( under your supervision of course).

 

It sounds to me that you've got a great dog. The only problem is that he and your daughter need to work on their relationship.

[Jackandgrey]

I agree with most of what's been said so far: Chase sounds like a good dog who is doing what dogs do - and this isn't confined to greyhounds. Dogs, generally, use the 'Finders keepers' rule, though it's true that some breeds are less assertive about enforcing it. That's not to say that greyhounds aren't a good fit for your family, because many other breeds are a whole lot more likely to be aggressive to people than greyhounds are.

 

I'd agree also that it's more a 'child' issue. Like you, we didn't get a dog until our younger son agreed (a little reluctantly, but he agreed) that we could, because he'd been dog phobic when very young. We made sure that both boys knew the rules and we pretty much used the 'old fashioned' policy of 'let sleeping dogs lie'. It's a good one. We didn't go quite as far as our grandparents and say 'if you get bitten it's your fault' because clearly you don't want your children injured, and yes, greyhounds are big dogs with big teeth. Actually, it's rare that they intend to cause real damage when they give a warning bite, but children are small, their faces are at dog level, and a bite is a bite. Not only do we not want that, but these days the dog often pays the ultimate price.

 

However, children need to learn that their actions have consequences and that other sentient creatures need to be respected. Yours are very young, so a lot of the responsibility is yours as parents, but you need to make sure (while everyone, including Chase, learns the ropes) that nobody gets hurt.

 

I'd start by making it a very clear offence, for your children to go anywhere near Chase while he's lying down. It needs to be completely unacceptable and a 100% rule. Certainly, while you're not around, it needs to be impossible for your children to approach him on his bed and this may need some rearranging - maybe you need to babygate, x-pen, etc. . When greyhounds are racing, nobody EVER touches them while they're asleep, and they get plenty of warning before they're touched. They're used to thinking of their bed as sacrosanct personal space.

 

Trading up is a great move, but I'm not sure I'd trust such young children to handle it correctly. It would need very, very close supervision each and every time until you were absolutely sure everyone was good with it. Children get blasé about such things very quickly and are apt to start snatching and that's SO not good with dogs.

 

Teach your children that a growl is a very important thing and must be listened to. Never try to stop a dog from growling, or you will get a dog who will not be able to warn you that he is near to breaking point and that's when you get dogs who bite 'without warning'. Chase is being a good dog - he is warning the youngsters to back off, and using excellent dog manners according to the rules for his species. You can change the way a dog sees the world but it takes time and consistency.

 

Lastly (sorry this is a novel) if you send Chase back, you are missing the opportunity to teach your children a whole lot of very important lessons. Living with a dog has so many benefits to children and parenting: it can teach respect, sharing, patience, duty, responsibility, consequences .. too many to name.

 

Pretty much all of this. I would also stress it would be a very sorry lesson your children learn in how you handle loving relationships if you were return this dog for a reason like this. However if you feel you are not wanting the responsibility of monitoring children and the dog as he learns to be a trusted family member, then by all means return him. He sounds like a great dog really.

[BootsyCollins]

I have no advice that others haven't given, but I will say that you'll have other incidents. My 3 year old son and his brother Bootsy have a meeting of the minds every once in a while. It's loud and usually results in a screaming scared little boy and a cowed hound, but everyone is OK at the end.

[MaryJane]

I'm so sorry that this happened and it's disrupted your life before the holidays.

 

So many of the previous posts have said so many good (and sometimes tough) things and I think I just want to add that ...

 

children will be children. that's why the group that I volunteer for usually will not adopt out to families that have very young children. Even when the parents say that they will watch all interactions like a hawk between the children and the dog - the children sometimes act too fast and bad things can happen. But, this is not a problem just with greyhounds ... it is any dog that you bring in.

 

No matter how many times you tell the "rules" to your children, they are not likely to listen well or will forget what they are supposed to do when something unexpected happens -- they act before they think - that's why they are kids (although I know a few adults like that too ).

 

Most greyhounds going into a home are uncertain of proper behavior and if trained, they adjust quite well in knowing what they can and should do. Many new greyhounds that I have fostered usually have a point where they get "growly" over a toy and these are the most mellow dogs but, when reprimanded and the toy taken away (and then given back), they start to understand what is good behavior and they adjust accordingly. Just being in a home will train your dog on what is allowable and as you are (or should be) rewarding or reprimanding as needed.

 

No dog is an instant pet but, greyhounds get pretty close as most of their behavior quirks are pretty well documented on the threads on this forum as well as ways to handle them.

 

Welcome to GT!

[Guest Bikeman]

Bikeman here. I have some time off of work so I able to laze around and follow the threads. Update: my youngest is doing fine. She likes Chase now (as I suspected). The incident yesterday clearly scared her (as it should have). Sometimes us parents are not able to drive some points home so an experience like this one can be beneficial in believing/trusting mom and dad, and taking principles from the theoretical to the real. Chase is a good boy and making great strides in learning the ropes. For example, this morning got up uber-early to workout -to early for Chase's morning turnout. He didn't get up, and start barking or whine to go out. He just looked at me and went back to sleep. Very intuitive response it seemed. I thought, "cool, that's the kind of reaction I like, especially since I'm in a hurry to get to the pool." And man, that dog can smell dinner a mile away. When my wife is cooking he trots half a flight up the stairs into the kitchen and investigates every inch of real estate with his nose. I had assumed as a sight hound he would rely less on his nose. Boy was I wrong. He is a sniffer. He is also a follower. He follows us everywhere. He just wants to be around us and get a pat on the head. Moreover, he has really caused me to think about how I raise/discipline/interact with my children. I am humbled by some of my self-reflection when contrasting my interactions with him and my kids. I am learning some important lessons on consistency, positive reinforcement, and thoughtful responses to actions from Chase. Will need to integrate them more into my interactions with my kids. However, having Chase has taken the load of me to teach my kids everything (I never saw that coming when we adopted him). Dogs are creatures and act as they act. Both daughters, as well as mom and dad, are forced to recognize action and reaction, behavior and consequence. I am glad Chase can help.

 

My wife and I had a talk with the girls today. No petting unless he is standing up. Since greys sleep so much, if they are standing (generally and at the appropriate times) they are ready to interact. Also, no walking right up to his bed (although he doesn't seem to mind that). Mom and dad will take things away from him if need be. No draping yourself over the dog. There is definitely some self-discipline involved.

 

Bikeman

Edited December 23, 2011 by Bikeman

[Trihounds]

What a great approach, Bikeman! That's fantastic. A lot of learning comes simply from observing hounds and kids together and while we obviously need to be very careful and set both up for success, the result is usually lifelong friendship and mutual admiration. Not always, of course, but with consistency and time, things fall into place.

 

By the way, are you a triathlete? Bikeman....going to the pool....

[Charlies_Dad]

Bikeman here. I have some time off of work so I able to laze around and follow the threads. Update: my youngest is doing fine. She likes Chase now (as I suspected). The incident yesterday clearly scared her (as it should have). Sometimes us parents are not able to drive some points home so an experience like this one can be beneficial in believing/trusting mom and dad, and taking principles from the theoretical to the real. Chase is a good boy and making great strides in learning the ropes. For example, this morning got up uber-early to workout -to early for Chase's morning turnout. He didn't get up, and start barking or whine to go out. He just looked at me and went back to sleep. Very intuitive response it seemed. I thought, "cool, that's the kind of reaction I like, especially since I'm in a hurry to get to the pool." And man, that dog can smell dinner a mile away. When my wife is cooking he trots half a flight up the stairs into the kitchen and investigates every inch of real estate with his nose. I had assumed as a sight hound he would rely less on his nose. Boy was I wrong. He is a sniffer. He is also a follower. He follows us everywhere. He just wants to be around us and get a pat on the head. Moreover, he has really caused me to think about how I raise/discipline/interact with my children. I am humbled by some of my self-reflection when contrasting my interactions with him and my kids. I am learning some important lessons on consistency, positive reinforcement, and thoughtful responses to actions from Chase. Will need to integrate them more into my interactions with my kids. However, having Chase has taken the load of me to teach my kids everything (I never saw that coming when we adopted him). Dogs are creatures and act as they act. Both daughters, as well as mom and dad, are forced to recognize action and reaction, behavior and consequence. I am glad Chase can help.

 

My wife and I had a talk with the girls today. No petting unless he is standing up. Since greys sleep so much, if they are standing (generally and at the appropriate times) they are ready to interact. Also, no walking right up to his bed (although he doesn't seem to mind that). Mom and dad will take things away from him if need be. No draping yourself over the dog. There is definitely some self-discipline involved.

 

Bikeman

 

I just wanted to add, I think you are definitely on the right track. You've asked the right questions, done the right things and talked with your daughters, all excellent. You will find that Chase will likely be more and more 'gentle'/relaxed as time goes on. Our Charlie used to growl at us when we first adopted him and tried to take something away from him but now he is a softy and has no issues with us taking something from him. It did take him months to get to this point though so it's not overnight but based on your description of how Chase is now, I am very confident that he will be even more easy going in time. As someone else wrote, it's very possible another incident could happen in the future as kids will be kids and dogs will be dogs. I would just remind your daughters of the 'rules' you have discussed with them regularly as I know if I was there age, I would forget and get into trouble quickly. Good luck and I hope you have many good years with Chase.

Edited December 23, 2011 by Charlies_Dad

[Guest Bikeman]

Not a triathlete per se. I swim Masters. Until recently was a year-round bicycle commuter -34 miles round trip a day. Relocated to new worksite and bad drivers have persuaded me not to ride in that area. I have been hit once and the effects are still with me after 3 years. Run, but not as much as used too. Doing CrossFit. Recommend it if you like feeling physically inadequate and workouts that are often punishing to the (unlikely but documentable) point of puking or passing out. http://www.crossfit.com/ They have CrossFit gyms all over the world. Check them out.

 

 

What a great approach, Bikeman! That's fantastic. A lot of learning comes simply from observing hounds and kids together and while we obviously need to be very careful and set both up for success, the result is usually lifelong friendship and mutual admiration. Not always, of course, but with consistency and time, things fall into place.

 

By the way, are you a triathlete? Bikeman....going to the pool....

[silverfish]

You sound like a great person to own a greyhound! And also a great parent.

 

Kids and dogs have a lot to teach us, huh? Kudos!!

[EnzaFerrari]

Not a triathlete per se. I swim Masters. Until recently was a year-round bicycle commuter -34 miles round trip a day. Relocated to new worksite and bad drivers have persuaded me not to ride in that area. I have been hit once and the effects are still with me after 3 years. Run, but not as much as used too. Doing CrossFit. Recommend it if you like feeling physically inadequate and workouts that are often punishing to the (unlikely but documentable) point of puking or passing out. http://www.crossfit.com/ They have CrossFit gyms all over the world. Check them out.

 

 

What a great approach, Bikeman! That's fantastic. A lot of learning comes simply from observing hounds and kids together and while we obviously need to be very careful and set both up for success, the result is usually lifelong friendship and mutual admiration. Not always, of course, but with consistency and time, things fall into place.

 

By the way, are you a triathlete? Bikeman....going to the pool....

 

You both side like you've handled this beautifully. Asked the right questions, made steps forward etc.

 

Funny enough, I am looking to join a crossfit gym in VA and am a bit scared out of mind, but I think it's time to loose the weight.

[BatterseaBrindl]

Hello Bikeman!

I am so glad your daughter has recovered from her scare and that Chase will remain with your family.

 

But, as ohers have said...kids will be kids.

 

When my 5 yr old grandaughter did the exact same thing...and Ruby reacted exactly the same way as Chase.....I was only 5 feet away from them.

 

Like you, we all learned a huge lesson.

 

 

Edited to say that we have

We need pictures of Chase!!

Edited December 23, 2011 by BatterseaBrindl

[kudzu]

Bikeman, my dad swims Masters & has done short course nationals a few times. He's not too shabby, but then when you get into your mid 70's there's not a lot of competition in the sprint races he does. Though since he's in better shape than me & could out swim me any day of the week I guess the real joke's on me.

 

Am so glad your daughter feels better about Chase. I know it has to be hard to feel entirely comfortable when a large dog gives such a stern warning to your child. It does mean every one needs to exercise some additional caution, even when you were already being cautious to begin with, but believe folks when they say if Chase had wanted to hurt your daughter he would have. It's a big adjustment for all of you & know one wants a child accidentally injured.

 

You guys are doing a good job. I think it will all work out well.

[Jackandgrey]

I think it sounds like you are going to be a great greyhound family. Congrats on your very sensible approach. Your Chase will become a integral part of your family before you know it and you will be posting here helping other new grey families!

[Guest BikeBookBread]

Hello Bikeman!

I am so glad your daughter has recovered from her scare and that Chase will remain with your family.

 

But, as ohers have said...kids will be kids.

 

When my 5 yr old grandaughter did the exact same thing...and Ruby reacted exactly the same way as Chase.....I was only 5 feet away from them.

 

Like you, we all learned a huge lesson.

 

 

Edited to say that we have

We need pictures of Chase!!

 

I'm the techie of the BikeFamily... I need five more posts, well, four, with this one LOL before I can post to the gallery, HOWEVER, I did create a signature banner. Here is our Chasey Wasey Woo Woo, as the girls call him

[Wonder]

Love the siggy!!