Possible Ruptured/torn Cranial Cruiciate Ligament

[maggiespet]

Maggie started limping 9 days ago. I really thought it was her back right foot. She would limp on and off, not lay on that side, really took her time going up the 5 steps from yard to deck. But when she started to tripod sometimes, I took her right in to the vet. We skipped the regular vet and went right to the ortho guy in the practice. After lots of manipulations, he guessed her knee but said possibly hip. So he took x-rays of her knee and hip. If he had seen anything ugly (like osteo) he was to get her lungs also. Maggie was very cooperative (as per her usual) and didn't need sedation. No osteo - in fact he said the bones looked really good. Bu he did dx a torn or ruptured cranial cruciate ligament. He showed me (using real bones - ewwww) exactly what he suspected and thinks she needs surgery. He would do a "tightrope" technique for the repair. He did suggest that we try Deramaxx, leash walking, no jumping up on furniture and no stairs for 2 weeks. He said that sometimes a tear can repair itself.

 

So we are on day 4 of leg rest and she's so improved. No more tripod-ing, no limp whatsoever. She soooo wants to jump and run. Of course, I'll continue the complete leg rest. But i'd like to know if anyone has experience with this. Would it be too good to be true that her leg would repair itself? How will I really know? Is the Deramaxx really an amazing drug? Can she be on it for a long period of time? Thanks in advance for GT pearls of wisdom.

 

 

 

[Guest goofydog]

I'm glad she is showing improvement using just leg rest. No advice to impart but please give Miss Maggie gentle scritches from me. And maybe an extra cookie, or four. Get Em sends his special healing slurps.

[brindlehound]

I have no experience but I'll keep Miss Maggie in my thoughts.

 

Magic and Carol

[HopeForHounds]

See if you vet is willing to go this route. C-PET Canine Platelet Enhancement Therapy Canine and Equine Pet Kit: A novel Platelet Enhancement Therapy for the treament of osteo-arthritis, tendon and ligament damage. Platelet Enhancement Therapy is a technique using the animal's own platelets for healing. This therapy does not require surgery.

Edited September 6, 2011 by foxysmom

[MerlinsMum]

Oh, I'm sorry Maggie is going through this, but glad to read that she is improving! I just got some Deramaxx from the vet today for the first time, too, so not sure about long-term use. My vet apparently described its effects as similar to what Advil does for humans. One of the side effects is diarrhea though, it seems. I'd be intrested to know more too.

 

I hope Maggie's tear can repair itself! :gooduck

[Chicocat]

Alpo has been on Dermaxx for almost 2 years (50 mg/day) for LS.

[Houndtime]

I am glad she is feeling better. Deramaxx has worked well in this house for some of the guys, but Fuzzy got really sick on it and we had to take hime off of it. I started using natural anti inflamatories and he seems fine. If you need to use Deramax longer term, some of the on-line dog pharmacies have good prices.

Edited September 6, 2011 by Houndtime

[Burpdog]

I hope your vets gave you a product insert on what to look for as to side effects. Deramaxx is probably the worst on the stomach.

 

Re ACL tear: if you are on Facebook, contact Dr. Shelly Lake. Usually (or most often) greyhounds do not tear the ACL.

 

I just don't want you to have her not get better and go thru an ACL operation when in fact, maybe it should be an amputation.

 

Sending lots of prayers.

[Potomacpupsmom]

I just looked it up to read about it and the American College of Veterinary Surgeons site says:

 

Cranial (or anterior) cruciate ligament (CCL) rupture is one of the most common orthopedic conditions seen in the dog

 

Maybe it is different for greyhounds?

Edited September 7, 2011 by Potomacpupsmom

[tbhounds]

Yes, it's rather usual but, not unheard of for a gh to have an acl injury after all they are still dogs. While it's not a common injury site for our hounds it is a rather common injury site for other breeds such as labs and goldens.

Because it's a rare injury for a gh I would play it safe and send the radiographs to Ohio state and let them evaluate the films.

Always give Deramaxx with food and it might help to give pepcid too.

[krissn333]

My ex's parents had a westie that tore her ACL. Due to her age they decided not to do surgery and just did therapy instead (joint supplement, Deramaxx, rest, and exercise later on). It took a while but eventually she was just fine and had a great life for at least 5 more years. She died from something unrelated.

 

If you have a vet nearby that does cold laser therapy, you might look into that-the results we've experienced have been awesome!

[Guest KennelMom]

No specific advice for an ACL tear, but Stella had a ruptured gastroc (achilles) and we leash walked for 12 weeks...one of the biggest mistakes people make with ortho issues is not letting it heal long enough (as in, baby it long after the symptoms are gone).

[Guest Fasave]

I am going through the same thing here. My guy started limping this spring and we did a 10 day course of previcox (NSAID like Deramaxx). He did great and enjoyed a limp free Summer but the limp is now back. Vet thinks same thing ACL tear, arthritis or osteo. We didn't x-ray because if it's osteo amputation is not an option for him. Additionally, given that he is weight bearing, the vet thought that if it is osteo, it might be too early to show up on an x-ray. My guy is so high stress that they need to sedate him even for a simple x-ray so I chose the NSAID route for now. Interestingly,however, I did notice a swollen toe so now I'm wondering if that is the problem. Did you check her toes? My guy also has corns but this is different than a corn limp. I hope she continues to do well. Keep us updated.

[Rickiesmom]

See if you vet is willing to go this route. C-PET Canine Platelet Enhancement Therapy Canine and Equine Pet Kit: A novel Platelet Enhancement Therapy for the treament of osteo-arthritis, tendon and ligament damage. Platelet Enhancement Therapy is a technique using the animal's own platelets for healing. This therapy does not require surgery.

 

Pending an MRI this option is on the table for Rickie - very interesting and pretty non-invasive.

[Burpdog]

Maybe it is different for greyhounds?

 

Yes. While it is possible, it's very, very rare.

[greytpups]

No advice Jane, just wishes that it's minor and heals quickly. For Maggie

Edited September 7, 2011 by greytpups

[Rickiesmom]

Some other ideas, based on what I am going through with Rickie (suspected left shoulder ligament issue): ask your ortho vet about rehab - things like laser treatments might help, as might other forms of rehab - for example we may do deep water treatmill work. Also, it might be worth seeing a well-recommended chiropractor - they won't be able to help the injury directly, but can make small adjustments and show you exercises to "reset" Maggie due to ways she has shifted her balance / used her muscles as she favours the sore leg. In our case, for example, the chiro recommended encouraging him to walk backwards (I keep close to him in front to steady him if needed, as he tends to land on his can). She also suggested having him spend a little time walking in sand.

[GeorgeofNE]

Alpo has been on Dermaxx for almost 2 years (50 mg/day) for LS.

 

 

George is on the same dose for the same reason. I think it's going on 2 years. No side effects for him whatsoever.

 

My last dog (a mutt) tore his anterior cruciate ligament and had to have a TPLO (tibial plateau leveling osteomy) which would have been wonderful had he not gotten a bone infection which extended his recovery period from the anticipated 12 weeks to well over a year (he nearly died, actually, but it's not a common thing).

 

Once he was squared away, he was almost good as new! He had a total rupture though. There was no chance it was going to heal.

[Guest Swifthounds]

No specific advice for an ACL tear, but Stella had a ruptured gastroc (achilles) and we leash walked for 12 weeks...one of the biggest mistakes people make with ortho issues is not letting it heal long enough (as in, baby it long after the symptoms are gone).

 

where it's not a complete ligament or tendon tear you can often get it to heal with a long period of rest, good diet, and just enough pain management that the dog is comfortable, but not "feeling good." Sometimes a surgical repair is necessary, but it's not without complications of it's own (commonly a tear of the opposite ACL) and will usually result in more scar tissue.

[grey8greys]

My first greyhound, Flossie, had a partial ACL tear. We did 8 weeks of crate rest, no walks, just to potty on leash, no jumping and getting on furniture, no steps, pretty much no nothing for 8 weeks after that we had another 4 weeks of no running. It seemed like forever, 12 weeks total, but she healed fine and never had a problem after that

[JJNg]

Sometimes a surgical repair is necessary, but it's not without complications of it's own (commonly a tear of the opposite ACL)

Just wanted to point out that tearing the opposite cruciate ligament is not a complication of surgery. Rather than being an acute, traumatic athletic injury as in humans, most dogs that tear their CCL usually do so because their stifle conformation predisposes them to the injury. And since stifle conformation is mostly symmetrical, what applies to one knee also applies to the other. Dogs that tear one CCL are likely to tear the opposite one regardless of whether they have surgery or not, especially in the breeds where this is seen more commonly. This may not hold true for greyhounds where a CCL tear may really be from and acute trauma and not genetic predisposition.

[maggiespet]

Thanks so much for input and well wishes for Maggie. She continues to feel good but after another phone convo, her dr. said this is because we are relieving swelling (that causes pain) with the Deramaxx. She is still on leg rest - and really hating it to be sure.

See if you vet is willing to go this route. C-PET Canine Platelet Enhancement Therapy Canine and Equine Pet Kit: A novel Platelet Enhancement Therapy for the treament of osteo-arthritis, tendon and ligament damage. Platelet Enhancement Therapy is a technique using the animal's own platelets for healing. This therapy does not require surgery.

I will check into this in my area. Thanks for the link.

 

No specific advice for an ACL tear, but Stella had a ruptured gastroc (achilles) and we leash walked for 12 weeks...one of the biggest mistakes people make with ortho issues is not letting it heal long enough (as in, baby it long after the symptoms are gone).

Even though her vet and I came up with a new plan of action - being a longer leg rest period than the initial 2 weeks (he'd like us to go 4 weeks now) - we'll go longer. But I plan on having him shoot another set of films in a week or so. I'd like to be able to have some x-rays of the leg minus some of the inflammation. He is still pushing surgery but he's a surgeon. Until he can tell me positively that it's a tear (and he hasn't been positive up to this point because of all the inflammation), I'm not going to move forward with surgery. She's kinda hinky with anesthesia to begin with.

 

Sometimes a surgical repair is necessary, but it's not without complications of it's own (commonly a tear of the opposite ACL)

Just wanted to point out that tearing the opposite cruciate ligament is not a complication of surgery. Rather than being an acute, traumatic athletic injury as in humans, most dogs that tear their CCL usually do so because their stifle conformation predisposes them to the injury. And since stifle conformation is mostly symmetrical, what applies to one knee also applies to the other. Dogs that tear one CCL are likely to tear the opposite one regardless of whether they have surgery or not, especially in the breeds where this is seen more commonly. This may not hold true for greyhounds where a CCL tear may really be from and acute trauma and not genetic predisposition.

 

I was given the name of a dr. who has had a lot of experience with this kind of injury in greyhounds and has had lots of positive outcomes. Unfortunately, he is away for a month but I spoke to his assistant. She said that very, very often a greyhound will blow the other knee within a year to 1.5 years of surgical repair to the other knee. She also suggested getting an x-ray minus some of the inflammation and her dr. would be happy to take a peek at them for me.

 

So in a nutshell - we're going to continue the Deramaxx (which she is tolerating well so far), keeping her as quiet and still as possible, another set of x-rays in a week or so, checking into alternative methods of healing, waiting for the awesome vet to get back from vacation who will double check for a tear and some praying. Maggie is 8 years old, in great shape (not just my opinion, also the vet's) ,loves to race around the backyard on critter patrol and then sunbathe till the gold in her brindle sparkles. She's sassy, demanding and a Momma's girl. I'll do whatever needs to be done for her to give her the best chance of a positive outcome. I have lots more research to do.

[Guest HandH]

Hi Jane...

Sorry to hear about sweet Maggie, but it sounds like you got it under control. Hope she feels better soon.

[GeorgeofNE]

You should, if you haven't already, take her to a board certified orthpedic vet.

 

When I took my dog in, it took him less than 3 minutes to determine, by manipulating my dog's leg, that the ACL was completely gone.

 

It must not be a total tear if he's suggesting all these tests because apparently if it's ruptured, the "knee" moves in ways that simply aren't possible when the ligament is intact.

 

Sometimes a surgical repair is necessary, but it's not without complications of it's own (commonly a tear of the opposite ACL)

Just wanted to point out that tearing the opposite cruciate ligament is not a complication of surgery. Rather than being an acute, traumatic athletic injury as in humans, most dogs that tear their CCL usually do so because their stifle conformation predisposes them to the injury. And since stifle conformation is mostly symmetrical, what applies to one knee also applies to the other. Dogs that tear one CCL are likely to tear the opposite one regardless of whether they have surgery or not, especially in the breeds where this is seen more commonly. This may not hold true for greyhounds where a CCL tear may really be from and acute trauma and not genetic predisposition.

 

Exactly!

 

And why, when I applied for insurance for my dog after he tore his, there were so many exclusions it wasn't even worth having the policy. I believe my ortho surgeon said something like 40-50% of dogs who tear one will tear the other.

[Guest Swifthounds]

Sometimes a surgical repair is necessary, but it's not without complications of it's own (commonly a tear of the opposite ACL)

Just wanted to point out that tearing the opposite cruciate ligament is not a complication of surgery. Rather than being an acute, traumatic athletic injury as in humans, most dogs that tear their CCL usually do so because their stifle conformation predisposes them to the injury. And since stifle conformation is mostly symmetrical, what applies to one knee also applies to the other. Dogs that tear one CCL are likely to tear the opposite one regardless of whether they have surgery or not, especially in the breeds where this is seen more commonly. This may not hold true for greyhounds where a CCL tear may really be from and acute trauma and not genetic predisposition.

 

What we are talking about is a greyhound. Regardless of being conformationally predisposed or not, surgery, like a full tear causes more exertion on the opposite ACL than resting a partial tear and allowing it to heal naturally. Surgery to repair an incomplete tear neither speeds recovery, nor reduces risk. It's also a larger risk for other injuries due to the delicate balance of sighthound locomotion.