Got Such A Fright At Playgroup Today

[HopeForHounds]

Give him another kiss from me Kerry.

 

I've been at a play group when there is a pack attack and I've seen people just stand there. The dogs in this instance managed to get one of the hounds pinned in the dug out. (those are now fenced off during play group) My son jumped the fence and started pitching dogs backwards to get to the victim. Luckily like Sagan she was just roughed up, but even with muzzles on she was very lucky. You could see the bruises beneath her white fur blossoming as we stood there checking her out. Some of the calmest, quietest hounds at play group got in on it - you just never know. This took place 8 years, or more, ago and things have changed as we have learned about hound behaviour.

Now all are welcome, but hounds stay on leash until told to let them off. They run in small groups and are watched carefully. Trouble makers are known and watched, they will be asked to leash up if problems occur. We have told some people their hound cannot come back.

 

As for Merlin, the behaviour you saw today is pure instinct. Disturbing as it is to see your beloved hound act that way, he was doing nothing but being a greyhound on a hunt. Not a pretty sight but normal. If you feel you need to work on some behaviours you are seeing in your daily life, then yes do that. Just don't think that because it was Sagan he went for that it has anything to do with what happens at home. Merlin likely didn't even realize it was Sagan.

 

Hugs to you tonight too.

[Guest lanielovesgreys]

Why would anyone object to muzzles? I've only ever done a playgroup with muzzles. I mean, otherwise 'I'm' tense. Things happen no matter how well behaved the dogs. Hell, I think it's slightly reckless for me to let my two out together daily without muzzles, but it's a risk I take. But dogs that aren't roomies... I think it's a requirement. I really can't think of a good reason for NOT using them. Do some members not have them? I mean, as a breed, they're VERY used to wearing them. And I know Laika gets into crazy run mode when I put it on her.

 

Just my two cents.

[Guest larock]

I got a lot of flack from the group we used belong to about 8 years ago. They didn't appreciate my 4 hounds on the field and compulsary muzzles so we just stopped going. I hope Sagen is OK...

Edited August 16, 2010 by larock

[Guest LindsaySF]

Thank goodness for muzzles. I am glad that you insisted on them! Many people would have caved to the pressure of those that didn't feel they are necessary....

 

I have attended some Greyhound playgroups, but almost every time with people and dogs I had met before. I felt sort of like you did, I wasn't even the organizer but I found myself wandering around barking orders to people, constantly watching the dogs, etc.

 

 

Here are some random thoughts of mine:

 

- Insist on muzzles, which you do already. Check for proper muzzle fit before any dog is allowed to run. Just like martingale collars, in my experience waaaay too many people have their muzzles on too loose. One good flick of the head or a rub on the fence and that muzzle is gone. I like muzzle keeper straps (you can get from Birdwell Enterprises) for dogs with tiny heads or really flat ears.

 

- Limit the number of dogs running. There really is no magic number IMO, and much depends on the personalities. But to make things easier you can come up with an arbitrary number. (On the personality discussion, here are some examples. Sophie is a laid back kind of dog. She will run and play bow, but at the first sign of "trouble" or when the dogs get too rough for her, she runs the other way. Honey can get rough playing, but if a dog growls or snaps she hits the deck in submission. Then you have Teagan, he plays rough, but worse he goes into kill mode if a dog cries, yelps, etc. Rogan plays super rough and can be a bully with more submissive dogs. If you had multiple Sophies and Honeys running around I would think it was okay to have a few more dogs. But limit the number of Teagans and Rogans on the field. Does that make sense? If people are new to the group and you don't know their dog's personality then you'll have to stick with just an arbitrary number).

 

- Choose running/playgroup locations carefully. There are some locations that have narrow areas where a hound or two could get "cornered" and picked on by the pack. Either the fence narrows to a point (especially at the entrance/exit gate), there are trees or tables or some other obstacle and dogs get caught behind them, etc. I like to shoo the dogs away if they are all crammed into a tiny area like between a picnic table and the fence, or in a crowd of owners. Keep them out in the open, you are less likely to have altercations. The open area presents its own challenges (fast running and hounds can slam into each other, etc), but in my experience most fights break out when the hounds are actually stopped and all piling on each other, not when actively running and spread out.

 

- Make sure there are enough people (hands) on the field. This can be tricky if people with multiple hounds attend, because then you have fewer people compared to the number of hounds. Ideally you should have one person for every 2 dogs running (they can grab a dog in each hand if needed). Much depends on the personalities though. I feel comfortable bringing my 4 because Teagan and Rogan are the troublemakers really. If I had 4 Teagans I might reconsider bringing all 4 of them. But the more people the better.

 

- Limit excitement that can rile the pack up. NO squawkers or noisemakers, no toys, no high-pitched screaming, etc. I will sometimes run a bit with the dogs to get them going if they are just standing around, but be careful with that too, you don't want to get them too riled up. If you are in a dog park or field with several fenced areas (maybe another side for small dogs, etc), if there are other dogs running the fence line you have to be super careful. You might need to leash up some dogs. At one playgroup we had a suicidal squirrel cut across the field, then it sat right behind the fence taunting our dogs. I leashed up my dogs until it left for good, that's a fenceline/redirected aggression incident waiting to happen. Everyone else let their dogs bark and lunge at the fence until the squirrel left, but not me.

 

- Give people that attend/join a quick training talk/demo, or some literature/sign a contract, on what to do if a fight breaks out. Or even before that, what to do if things seem to be getting kind of tense, how to break things up. It is super frustrating when some people just stand around when you need them to spring into action, but either people get scared, they don't know what to do, they need direction, whatever. You can do a demo or a "drill" even, to get people more comfortable with it.

 

- School people on proper dog body language, posturing, bullying, etc. What is an acceptable amount of "playful" growling vs. what constitutes an annoyed dog, bullying, or a fight about to happen. You would be surprised by how many people have absolutely no clue about this kind of stuff, and they are downright shocked when a fight happens, while other people saw it coming a mile away. When my dogs get to playing too rough I yell a "Hey!" with the VOG. That usually heads off most confrontation. If a dog keeps it going, go in and leash that dog, they need a time out from playing. Some people are okay with yelling to/at their own dogs, but are afraid to do so to other people's dogs, for fear of being rude or crossing boundaries. Don't be afraid, it's necessary. I would include that on your talk when people arrive, everyone needs to work together with all of the dogs.

 

- On breaking up a fight, I'll disagree with the advice given earlier, I think it's fine to grab onto collars if you need to. If the dogs are muzzled the chances of you being bitten are very low. Grabbing onto legs is usually the advice given for unmuzzled dogs involved in a fight, you don't want the dogs to redirect onto you. In a muzzled pack, grabbing collars and walking away is sometimes the best way to get everyone apart. And emphasize to people that if a fight breaks out, just grab the dog(s) closest to you and walk away. Don't worry about wading into the pack looking for your dog, just grab a dog. The faster the better, someone else closer will grab your dog. I usually go in and separate the instigator first, if there is one, but in a big pack fight you might not have one dog causing the problem, you have several, so just grab whatever dog is closest. (Get people to keep ahold of their leashes, I attach mine to my belt loop or hang them over my shoulders. You don't want to be hanging onto a dog by the collar and your leash is on the other end of the park. I have seen many people leave their leashes hanging by the gate to exit, that won't help you if you need it sooner).

 

- People should know that this is not social hour, your eyes should be on the dogs at all times. In a large field this will involve actually following the pack around, so you are closeby if a fight breaks out. Many people stand in one place (where the chairs/benches are if there are any) and let the dogs go off into the distance. I always follow the main pack wherever they go. If a fight breaks out you don't want to be all the way on the other end of the park. Keeping my eyes on the dogs also made chatting difficult, people would keep rotating around so they could make eye contact while talking to me, and I kept moving again to keep an eye on the dogs. Get used to chatting without actually looking at the person you're talking to!

 

 

I hope some of that rambling helped!

 

 

 

 

 

~Lindsay~

[Guest mcsheltie]

 

 

For those who mentioned the "wheelbarrow" method of stopping a fight - thanks so much, I would never have thought of that. Just one question - don't I risk causing some damage to their legs by doing this? But I'm assuming the point is to apply just enough pressure to throw them off balance? Right?

You won't hurt them. You want to do more than throw them off balance, you want to pull them out of there. They will get hurt a lot worse by the other dogs.

 

I am not sure people who think it is okay to grab a collar in a dog fight have ever been in the middle of a real one. Things happen so fast that if the dog you grab doesn't get you, the dog that is trying to get him will. Even a dog who is not one of the bullies will instinctively go after someone who grabs at his neck. You can't keep your hands safe in a fight. Your fingers can get in a muzzle in a heart beat. Stay safe and grab the back legs.

[HopeForHounds]

Great advice Lindsay.

 

I just wanted to add that excitement that can lead to Packing On isn't limited to the field or the dogs in the group. The situation I spoke of earlier was due to a dog on the other side of the fence. The owner was asked to move away, but refused. The result? A couple of frustrated dogs who targetted on little white girl. She ran from them and the situation went from bad to worse in seconds. We now know to move into the vicinity whenever there is anyone on the outside of the park. You try to move with the pack so that someone is always there when they stop (or at least as close as us slow humans can get)

 

Learn to use the voice of God and use it often even for a small ruckus. A loud BACK OFF, KNOCK IT OFF or even HEY! BE NICE! teaches them you mean business. By doing that you limit the little things becoming big things. Those words have little effect on a Packing ON situation, that takes physically moving them away.

 

I do have a funny story about the situation I posted about earlier. I had just leashed Foxy, and my friend's girl Clover. The ruckus began and the hounds started to pen the little white girl in the dug out. I was struggling to hole on to the two spitfires who clearly were going to "help sort the bad kids out" if only I would let go. One of the other owners came over to ask if she could help. I looked down at the two 60 lb twisters I had by the collars and looked up at the frail 80 year old woman and said "no thanks, I've got them under control" yeah right! But, I just twisted them both in another direction and spoke to them in a sing song voice and you'd have though I'd flipped a switch.

 

You know we left that field and you would never have known anything had happened.

Edited August 16, 2010 by foxysmom

[FiveRoooooers]

This doesn't happen just at the dog park. There is an article in today's NYT about the same thing at kids' playgrounds ... while the kids are off "playing" the parents are standing around socializing.

[Guest PhillyPups]

Kerry,

 

If you have a group e-mail, I would e-mail everyone and talk about lessons learned and changes that should/will be made for the safety of the hounds and open a discussion amongst the group.

 

Pat

[macoduck]

We have an aggressive runner group( mostly very young competitive hounds), less aggressive(those that have begun to mellow a bit) Seniors(older hounds or those that are not big runners) and the Hahas( injured or just want to smell the flowers and roll in the grass). We then call out names and only those called are allowed on the field unleashed.

 

I've had several members of the HAHA group - my Half A@@ed and Hardly Able boys.

 

As Lori said, when we do the regulars, 10 minutes is more than enough time before reigning them in and letting the next group run.

 

Sometimes I think there are earth magnets in those muzzles. Gracie will momentarily want to run with the pack but immediately throws herself into a face plant after she realizes she's wearing a muzzle. The sun must be an anti-magnet as that's the direction her hiney remains while the earth's plastic magnet force holds the muzzle down.

[Guest Swifthounds]

Lisa B,I know you are new to greyhounds, so please take this as it is meant, instructive advice - the number of dogs in that picture scares the crap out of me.

 

Me too.

 

It is it not necessarily a "troublemaker" that sets the pack instinct off - it can be as simple as one hound jamming a toe and yelping - the yelp will set off the instinct. As much as our hounds are our "furkids" they are above all dogs and think like dogs - instinct is much stronger than our reasoning.

 

 

Unless one has witnessed a "pack attack" there is no way to describe it. When one starts just grab dogs - any dogs - AND when it is over there is still their adrenalin to deal with, or it can start again in an instant. Muzzles are wonderful, but in the frenzy of a pack attack, hounds can do damage with the muzzles on.

 

 

I don't do greyhound playgroups for the same reason I don't do dog parks - most of the time, you're asking for trouble. I did think about joining a muzzled greyhound group until I asked more questions. Do you check that muzzles are properly adjusted? No. Do you limit the number of hounds at a time to a handful? No. Are all the dogs required to be recall trained to voice command? No. Do you check nail length? No. Do you ask people if they know why their dog retired? No. Have you effectively dealt with a dog fight? No.

 

I know it's common to think that these off leash group activities are a good place for a dog to socialize and become more confident, but the opposite is true. The other issue with the greyhound playgroups is the tendency to think that greyhounds are nicer and therefore less of an issue than other breeds. We tend to wear blinders and thing that greyhounds do no wrong.

 

I admit, I got my wake-up call a decade ago at Dewey when an aggressive bumper (I looked up his lines later) slammed my Vixen to the ground. The owner stood there doing nothing. My school teacher Mom jumped right in and hauled the dog off Vixen and I scooped her up and carried her off the field. Would you believe that the idiot volunteer followed me and told me that my dog was not suited to the field and was being told to leave, but my other hound could stay (he ran over and started trying to knock the other hound off Vixen before any of us got a hand in). I did say some not-so-nice things. Oh, and that nice looking greyhound owner thought it was cute that her dog leapt in the air and "slammed" into her chest at home....

[Guest KennelMom]

It is best during a playgroup to have people spread out and their eyes watching the dogs at all times. If they want to have time to visit with each other, that is done after playgroup when all hounds are leashed.

 

Most playgroups I've been to have folks huddled in small groups near the entrance and then acres of open area where dogs are running. Most of the time, the people aren't even watching the dogs.

 

 

I'm sorry you have a bad time at playgroup...big fights like that can be really scary, esp when no one will help you! If you have someone in charge of playgroup, I would seriously start banning dogs that are constant bullies. Their energy and action throws off the entire "pack." Often their owners are clueless that their dog is being an a-hole. I don't often go to the local playgroup here, but when I do there are dogs I don't take b/c they tend to be jerkheads with new dogs in a running/competitive situation. Only the dogs that play nice get to go.

 

Also, like the dog park, most folks thing that playgroup is the place to bring their dog to burn off energy. Often that dog has spent the week relegated to the sofa with little-to-no other exercise, mental or physical. So, you end up with a dog that's a bundle of energy and overwhelmed at all the stimulation. Definitely not ideal. Encourage people to burn off that excess energy their dog has *before* getting to playgroup with a nice long walk.

[ivon]

Wow, how scary! We have a pretty good group of people that bring their Greys to playgroup, we typically have 15-20 dogs, and if any one of them causes trouble it gets fetched and taken aside. All dogs are muzzled, and owners are attentive and stay close to their dog(s), just in case, and are ready to grab any dog if needed. In this heat I usually grab my two after a few minutes of running anyway, they are old but don't know it, and I don't want them to overheat, luckily they come to me when I call them.

[Guest caiteag]

We have a group here, too, and they are ALWAYS muzzled. Luckily, we don't normally have any trouble-makers and can run quite a large group with no worries. But when the trouble-makers attend, we pay a lot more attention. Summer has only owned me since the beginning of May but in that time, we've not had to restrict the numbers or rotate the dogs. But I was told that we'd probably do it by color. You know, all the fawns at one time, then all the brindles... that kind of thing.

 

PLEASE understand that it has nothing to do with troublemakers at all. A pack fight/attack can start in ANY situation where you have a large group of hounds. We were having a get together at a friend's house last fall. I am guessing we had easily 12 - 15 humans in the house & easily as many hounds. We were all sitting, chatting, having snacks and one of the boys let out a cry due to leg cramps. Every single human in the room reached out right then and there and grabbed hold of the closest hound(s), while they hound in pain's Mama massaged out his cramps. Why did we all grab whatever hound we could get our hands on? Because a hound sounding like he was in that kind of pain can EASILY trigger a pack attack even in a completely calm and relaxed situation. Not only are our dogs hunting dogs, many with high prey instincts.. but they are also EXTREMELY pack oriented and even the sweetest, calmest, friendliest hound can get caught up in the pack mindset and attack a weaker seeming dog.

 

Kerry, give that sweet Sagan yet another kiss for me.

[RobinM]

Since we are a pack unto ourselves, I won't even let my 5 run together. I break it into 3 and 2. Why? Teddy and Ollie.

 

Teddy will single Ollie out and instead of goofing around with his Chloe, Teddy will run right towards Ollie- Elsie will run across the field and cut everyone off and all I see is DANGER DANGER.

 

So, from here on it, it's Teddy, Chloe alone and they can be maniacs together. Beau- who won't even run but will pee on every blade of grass along the perimeter of the field and Ollie and Elsie together.

 

Much safer for all.

 

Hugs to you Kerry and your beautiful boy.

[TheFullHouse]

My pack is very stable, they get along great, we don't have fights and I can't even remember the last time any of mine had words with anyone BUT let Saint have a seizure and my loving pack turns into an attacking pack. It's the most frightening sight you can imagine and both times it's happened in my home, I was the only one here to handle it. Thank goodness my pack also recognizes the tone in my voice that lets them know to knock it off because besides pulling two dogs off of him, the rest stayed back when I yelled at them. As soon as Saint was on his feet, the tension in the room subsided and everyone was fine. It can happen in a matter of seconds and I agree with those that have said, it has nothing to do with any particular dog instigating it and for those that think a submissive dog won't join in, WRONG, some of my most submissive will join with the rest of the group during an attack.

 

The last time I dealt with this was two years ago when just before passing away, Emmy had a seizure. My son was here and even though Emmy was the LEADER of my pack, they went after her, so position within the pack makes no difference when it comes to being sick or injured. I have learned that if one of mine scream, I jump in right away to stop anything before it has a chance to get going.

 

It's something every owner of multiples should be aware of and be able to handle or you could end up with more than one injured dog in the house.

[OwnedBySummer]

With all the scary comments, I'm so glad our group, although often large, is very attentive. We are always watching the dogs (how can you not? they are so beautiful!). There are some very experienced greyhound people in the group, so I'm comfortable with both the group itself and the size of the group. Whenever troublesome dogs or screamers are attending, we are all advised and we know who to watch out for. And everyone is always ready to grab any dog, just as we do when anyone goes through a gate. I did find the "wheelbarrow" procedure of great interest and I'll keep it in mind should I ever have to reach in to a snarling pile!

[Guest PhillyPups]

With all the scary comments, I'm so glad our group, although often large, is very attentive. We are always watching the dogs (how can you not? they are so beautiful!). There are some very experienced greyhound people in the group, so I'm comfortable with both the group itself and the size of the group. Whenever troublesome dogs or screamers are attending, we are all advised and we know who to watch out for. And everyone is always ready to grab any dog, just as we do when anyone goes through a gate. I did find the "wheelbarrow" procedure of great interest and I'll keep it in mind should I ever have to reach in to a snarling pile!

 

Again, I understand you are new to greyhounds ~ however, if I lived near you, I would not run my dogs in your play group due to the size. I have a bit of greyhound experience, and have been around my share of dogfights (at a racing kennel and a playgroup).

 

In looking at the picture you showed, (although it looks like fun) a dog fight could break out and there is not a human that is close enough to break it up, which can result in losing a dog. It is not necessarily a "troublemaker" or a "screamer" that causes it, one of the worst fights I had to help break up started with a plastic bag blowing across a turnout pen. When prey drive kicks in, all bets are off. This is not meant as being critical of you, just sharing some experience to help you. Not only is the prey drive there, but the pack mentality. Greyhounds stay in a pack environment a lot longer than most other breeds. In my home with one 12-1/2 year old and two 11-1/2 year olds, none of my hounds has ever spent one night of their life without another greyhound. When I take my hounds out, they stay a "pack within a pack".

 

It is not a "snarling pile" we are speaking of, we are dealing with sight hounds trained to hunt with a strong prey drive, they do a lot more than snarl.

 

I know the new experience of seeing them run is awesome. I hope you never encounter a dogfight at your group, but with the information given here and the experience shared by others, I would talk to the group about smaller numbers.

[Guest greybookends]

A large group of running hounds can get wound up for many reasons. We learned the hard way. There was no pack fight but we had an overly stimulated group of hounds of 15 -25. They began to run in a pack around the field. It was a beautiful sight to behold ALL of the hounds were involved, but we soon realized they had no intentions of stopping. They were so caught up in the moment. They must have encircled the baseball field 10 times at least with no signs of wanting to stop. Sheana was the first to stop and when she got to me she was foaming at the mouth to the point she looked rabid. She ended up at the e vet later that night. Another hound ran so hard he broke both his front legs, another died later when her kidneys shut down. Had the pack been smaller we would have had a better chance of stopping it. We have never run a large pack since. There were other factors involved but had the pack been smaller it would have been more manageable. There are many reasons for keeping the groups smaller. I pray no one else ever has to learn the hard way like we did.

[greysmom]

Kerry, I'm so sorry this happened to handsome Sagan. I also agree that Merlin probably didn't even know/care it was his brother in the middle getting raked over. If you think he's getting a bit too over-confident, then the NILIF should help.

 

I have to keep on Toni all the time - she's a major dog bully! - to keep her quite literally in her place. I love on her as much as the others but she gets fed last, she gets treats last, she goes out the door last, she has to "do" something for anything she wants. She basically doesn't get to "win" at anything! It's the only way to keep her from becoming a maniac with the others. With people, she's the sweetest dog ever, but she definitely needs rules and boundaries that are pretty clear and always enforced.

 

If you go ahead and break up your group into smaller ones, you should do the same with the dog parents who attend. If your dog is running, you should be one of the playground attendants. Or draw straws or numbers or something so that the people can rotate who is watching the group. That way some people can socialize themselves and the dogs will be properly supervised.

 

Give BOTH boys a kiss from me!

[grey14me]

Another very good point, Lori (greybookends)...how sad that that happened

[galgrey]

Sagan is my shadow, he follows me everywhere. He is submissive and can be very shy or fearful with other breeds and new people, although he's made much progress in the nearly 2 years since we brought him home. I like take him to playgroup, among other things, to socialize more with other hounds. Mostly, he tends not to run with the others. However, sometimes he will take off with a little encouragement from mum, and then he's usually running ahead of the rest with the help of his long, long legs.

 

Today at playgroup I encouraged him to run with me, and then he took off - and sure enough the other hounds immediately followed. Except a couple of toes got stomped on in the process - what with everyone crowding each other - and the aggression started. Merlin was one of the dogs who went for him He can be a real bully with Sagan sometimes. But it just went on and on and the more I ran to stop them, the more I realized that it not going to just fizzle out. I know many of you know exactly what I'm referring to... when competitiveness is coupled with misplaced aggression and dominant personalities, and there is high speed running involved - the results can be awful. And who is often the first dog to bear the brunt of all this? The submissive one He kept trying to outrun them all, but eventually he got to a fence and he was stuck right in the middle of what had by now become a gang of houndies bullying him and caging him in. I ran and ran but they were so fast that I couldn't catch up with them. A couple of other people helped but most of the playgroup members just STOOD there, which really upset me. I confess to losing my patience and raising my voice at them to not just stand there but to help me stop it... I don't understand for the life of me why people do this. Are they scared they're going to get hurt? It was obvious that the intensity of the situation was just going to keep escalating. If we hadn't intervened in the end it could have ended very badly.

 

Anyway, finally I managed to grab one of the more persistent and bullying houndies. Someone else grabbed Merlin, and someone grabbed the third troublemaker. Of course at that point the rest of the hounds dispersed immediately, and I ran to Sagan to check him over. He did have missing fur and superficial wounds in two places, and he was trembling with his tail firmly stuck between his legs, poor baby, but on the whole he was INCREDIBLY lucky. I seriously thought that the situation was going to end very, very badly with multiple and serious injuries for many of the dogs.

 

When I caught my breath and we all calmed our dogs down, the first thing I said to everyone was "... and THAT is why I made muzzles compulsory at playgroup" (in the early days of our playgroup some members had objected to the use of muzzles). But I do berate myself for giving in to some people's objections, in recent months, about the number of greys allowed at playgroup at one time. With several of us having two hounds, what would happen is that someone would go to RSVP for the play date and find that it was already full. The rules of the group state that no more than 8 hounds can be running in the ballfield at any one time, so play dates fill up very quickly and not everyone gets the chance to participate.

 

I was thinking that maybe we could allow up to ten people but have the greys take turns, so that only 5 greys are allowed to run together at one time? Any suggestions? Has anyone here had this problem at playgroup? I also think our group needs to have a conversation about the dogs with dominant personalities who are more likely to start trouble, so that we can be better prepared if anything kicks off again in the future.

 

I'm sorry this happened. This is exactly why I no longer go to playgroup. Too many on the field, dominant dogs bullying other dogs, and owners chatting with their backs turned to the field not paying any attention to their dogs getting out of control. I had been bringing this up and several people said I was being "a worry wart". I take no pleasure in being right here, but the last time I attended a passive dog got packed up on against the fence and got had a big laceration in her side. When she cried out it triggered a fight & two dominant males who had been overly aggressive earlier were about to get their muzzles off in the fracas when I intervened. I called out for help and everyone just stood there! When it was over, then the owner of one of the aggressive dogs cursed me out for grabbing his dog by the collar and putting his dog's muzzle back on him. I had told him earlier that his dog's muzzle was too loose and would likely come off if/when it was really needed. I guess that is what made him mad.

 

Call me crazy (other's have ), but I don't think it's unreasonable to expect everyone to watch their own dogs and intervene if their dog is getting out of line. Many years ago I started taking my bridge boy, Keno, to a playgroup. Keno was full of himself in his younger days and could be a real pistol when he got pumped up. I never took my eyes off of him when he was running with the others on the field because I'd seen him pick out a timid dog and slam him/her hard. I knew by his body language when he needed to chill and I would leash him and take him off the field. I finally stopped taking him because he started consistently picking on two particular dogs who were always there. And no one ever had to ask me to watch him or ask take him off the field when he got rowdy. He was my dog and it was my responsibility. I was also the one who made the decision to stop taking him to playgroup. To me it was a no brainer. He could not behave and I didn't want to see him or any other dogs hurt.

 

I hope your group will listen to reason and everyone's willing to be responsible for their own dogs. Running in small groups with dogs well matched in temperment makes it safer for everyone.

Edited August 17, 2010 by galgrey

[Guest EmilyandSioux]

I have seen it happen and it scares you and your baby. It was about 10++ years ago and we ended up in the vet's office on a Sunday having a rear muscle sewn up. It was not pretty and it happens fast. I was the only one there with emergency training of any kind and I ended up triaging and riding to the vet(who I never had met) and ended up assisting in the surgery to put someone else's dog back together and leaving my guy at the party. The shy dog was faster than the others and she paid for it with some skin. She ended up being ok after a few weeks but would never run with other dogs again. Like you said the others just stood and watched. I think it was just a shock to them to watch their babies turn violent.

[MerlinsMum]

A large group of running hounds can get wound up for many reasons. We learned the hard way. There was no pack fight but we had an overly stimulated group of hounds of 15 -25. They began to run in a pack around the field. It was a beautiful sight to behold ALL of the hounds were involved, but we soon realized they had no intentions of stopping. They were so caught up in the moment. They must have encircled the baseball field 10 times at least with no signs of wanting to stop. Sheana was the first to stop and when she got to me she was foaming at the mouth to the point she looked rabid. She ended up at the e vet later that night. Another hound ran so hard he broke both his front legs, another died later when her kidneys shut down. Had the pack been smaller we would have had a better chance of stopping it. We have never run a large pack since. There were other factors involved but had the pack been smaller it would have been more manageable. There are many reasons for keeping the groups smaller. I pray no one else ever has to learn the hard way like we did.

 

OMG. Lori, that's horrible. I'm so, so sorry

 

Thank you for everyone's continuing comments - so much good advice here, I am reading it and digesting it all and will be composing an email to the mailing list of our group so that everyone gets it. For those who mentioned this - as organizer, I did need to have words with one of our members once, because her dog, who was a sweetie with humans, had aggression issues with the other hounds. Unfortunately it put a damper on the dynamics of the group and none of the other hounds played or ran anymore - as they were sure to be put off by growls and aggression from this one hound. I had to talk to his guardian and suggested she do some behavior conditioning work with her dog. She understood completely when I explained that I couldn't put the other dogs at risk, and she said she'd try and help her grey, but this was quite a while ago and we haven't seen her at playgroup since. I hope she managed to work on her boy's aggression issues. The rules of our group do state that any bullying, aggression, etc will not be tolerated. We also have a "no-children in the enclosure" rule for added safety.

[Saharasmom]

One thing I want to add is if there is a fight DO NOT grab collars. That is the surest way to get bitten.

 

Also, if you grab a hound by a loose collar, he could pull his muzzle off when he backs out of the collar.

[OwnedBySummer]

Good advice! I'm learning! And I really hope I'll never see any of this, although I suppose one day I will. Thanks, everyone!