Ibd - Happy Starving!

[Xan]

Thanks, y'all. She's showing some actual resistance to all the manhandling, which I take as a good sign.

Baby steps. Baby steps. Right. Mantra. Okay. Baby steps ....

 

How fast can a baby run?

 

[GreyPoopon]

Well, she's a greyhound baby, so once she gets going...

 

Go Happy!!!

[3DogNite]

Sounds like Happy is a happy girl again,,, congratulations,, but quietly, don't want to rock the boat!

 

eat lots, eat well, and poop and poop good! oh, i have gone to a new level of low,, but if it works!

[Xan]

Each new day brings a new set of emotions. I'm feeling rather at the end of my rope right now. Happy has eaten about 3/4c of food all day today. I'm feeling like we may be nearing The Talk with the vet on Monday, if she continues like this tomorrow. She just can't survive like this! I don't want her to starve slowly to death.

 

I went to my nearby pet food place, and talked for over an hour with the lady working there (they're all very well-informed, and this one has IGs). We talked, we cried, we laughed, and we cried. I came out with some canned duck and potato, and just canned duck. Happy was interested briefly in the duck and potato, then a little more interested in the duck, but only ate a few bites altogether. I just think she's dragging towards the slow end. Unless we get a miracle, this is going all one direction.

 

The one more positive note was when I offered her some ice cubes, which she generally likes, and she ate a few. She did eat a couple little slices of raw apple, but I didn't want to give her much of that. So, I put that together ... I took her kibble, mixed it with applesauce and water, and froze it. It was frozen enough tonight to break it up and offer it to her, and she ate it almost all. Still, only about 1/4 c of food, but it was the most enthusiasm we'd seen in awhile. I had to hand her each bite, but she kept taking it.

 

So, of course I made up a bunch more. We'll see if that interest lasts through tomorrow. She's still wagging, and even doing a little canter after she potties, but she's skin and bones, and still losing.

[Guest zoolaine]

Have you tried fresh buffalo???? I usually boil it for Sunny. When Sunny was first diagnosed the vet said that if the novel protein kibble didn't work than he would have to go oN a homemade diet of fresh buffalo and sweet potatos. A lot of grocery stores carry frozen ground buffalo, so it's not too hard to find. Try Haggens.

[krissn333]

Xan, I can't believe I didn't think to share this with you before...when Sutra was coming off of being so sick, he still didn't want to eat. Our vet prescribed him an appetite stimulant and it WORKED. It's called Cyproheptadine (Brand name is Periactin).

 

I never knew this till now, but it's actually given for allergies - it's an antihistimine. Our vet prescribed it as an appetite stimulant though, and it helped.

 

I think I recall you saying that Happy has had some skin problems or itching/rash or something like that? Maybe this would help. It really made a difference for Sutra. It does take a week or so to build up enough to work though.

 

I wouldn't give up on her yet - but you see her every day and you know her best.

 

I would also ask the doc about maybe feeding her some macaroni for the carbs. It's so hard because of her digestive issues, but she needs stuff like that to sustain her. If she can eat cottage cheese, mix the two together. That is/was Sutra's favorite.

[greyhead]

I know it's hard, Xan, but keep the faith. Spencer started budesonide in early May, like the 5th or so. Below is an excerpt from a post I made on the 23rd.

 

...Although he lost five pounds a few weeks back, he's holding steady now at 76 lbs. His poops had stayed runny on raw venison, so we followed the suggestion to add Natural Balance venison & sweet potato kibble, and he is firming up nicely. Budesonide has reduced the tummy rumbling 90%, though it took a couple weeks to get that good. Will stay on that and Flagyl for the foreseeable future. Religious use of Zantac twice a day has helped a lot too.

 

He's lost a lot of muscle, but he's happy, loves to walk, sometimes cuts loose for a back-yard run, plays with stuffies, and has regained his love for meeting people and other dogs. He wowed the vet's office the other day with his gentle charming of a skeptical little girl pug.

He's up to 81 lbs now. It's a slow process. Which makes it very hard on you.

 

If it were me, I'd give her another B-12. Won't hurt, might very well help! Spencer got two a week for the first few weeks because the effect on him was too demonstrably good to play by the rules (i.e., once a week). I could see him slip back three days after the shot and perk right up again two hours after the next one. The vet said it was okay to be governed by my own observations on this, so that's what I did. (I'll share the timetable we used to decrease frequency later, when it's more relevant.)

 

One thing I try when Spencer's appetite is off is giving him just the kibble moistened with water. At those times he'll reject it when moistened with gravy made from canned meat and water. It's like the smell is too rich and off-putting. If I redo the kibble with just water, he often goes for it.

 

He never wanted anything to do with duck in any form but I hope it helps Happy. I know how desperate it can get when they're all bones, but try not to switch around too much if you can help it.

 

Our vet recommended a minimalist approach and it worked for us: one protein, one carb if tolerated (sweet potato for us), raw if it works, kibble if it works, canned if it works, no dairy, no probiotics (cuz they make some IBD dogs worse), no enzymes (sufficiently provided by raw food), no added vitamins except injected B-12, and his meds. If his tummy got swollen and very rumbly, we gave Gas-X (simethecone) and you can actually give a lot of it at one time. If you can hold to a plan like this, hard as it can be, it should start to pay off in a few days.

 

We're crossing all fingers and toes here, sending white light and much love, and praying for all we're worth that Sunday is a better day. And you'll notice we're staying up late! Tell Happy that mom's on the case and confident even if concerned.

 

And Happy, sweetie, a little faster please! Dave Matthews is doing a song for you on SNL right now and saying, "I ain't waitin' for the world to change, baby. Gonna change the world for you."

 

 

[Guest vahoundlover]

I've been following but haven't been posting. Keep the faith Xan, we are all praying for Happy.

[Patsy]

Xan, you and Happy are in on the nightly candle. White light coming your way as you struggle to find some answers.

[tbhounds]

I know I sound like a broken record but, it is time for a second opinion with an internal specialist-stat. Have you had an ultrasound or radiographs done yet? It's time for her to be admitted for a full work-up.

[galgrey]

[2hounds]

Lots of good thoughts coming for Happy. Feel better soon sweet girl!

[3DogNite]

Happy, we are sending and from our house to you!

Please feel better and be a good girl,,, eat some food for your mom!

 

 

 

[Guest MZH]

Please give the budesonide a week to kick in before you thrw in the towel. I also fully understand you're not wanting to watch her disappear; that has got to be painful for her to experience and you to watch.

 

Hugs from SC.

[Xan]

Not a good morning. Still refusing food, even the frozen food I prepared for her after last night's small success (fish kibble with applesauce and water, frozen and then broken into small chunks). Gave her her B12 injection (twice a day), and the slippery elm. As she put her boney head in my lap, and I smelled her death breath, I got the very distinct impression she was saying to me that all this activity is for our benefit now; not hers. She seemed to be saying that she's ready to call it quits.

 

I hear you all saying don't give up, and if I can find a reason to think that anything is going to move us in the right direction, of healing and recovery to a reasonable quality of life, I'll hang on with her. But that's not what I'm getting from her right now.

 

zoolaine, I read about buffalo because we have a source nearby, but was scared off by it's genetic proximity to beef (been bred together too long). I might risk it, since we're so close to out of options.

 

Kristin, I dont think she has a week in her, at this rate. I'll ask the vet about this though.

 

Mary, we've done the same thing: trying adding stuff to the kibble, then taking it out one by one down to just dry kibble, not even water. Just tuna. Just potato. Just sweet potato. Just duck. Just apple. Just fish (raw, pan seared, baked), just lamb tripett, just lamb (raw, pan seared, boiled). Nutritional yeast paste. ...... Frozen kibble, even! She's just not going for it, or not enough.

 

We never did get the rumbly tummy. The vet said he heard little to nothing, actually. She continues to poop, but it's nearly the same volume as went in, and pretty much unaffected by its passage. She's not getting anything out of what she eats.

 

tbhounds, I'll ask the vet if he thinks anything like that is warranted, but I have to sadly say that it's an expense we can't meet if we can't pay over time. If our vet can do it, and is willing to add it to our already big bill, and thinks it's going to tell us something helpful, then okay. Otherwise, it's like it is for us humans: no health insurance = limited healthcare. It's horrible to have to take money into consideration, but doctors and hospitals will do that for you if you forget. She's had two full blood panels, two urinalyses, and physical exams. Wah! I feel so terrible that I can't just whip out a platinum card and give her the best of everything, but it is what it is. We're doing the best that we can for her.

 

Marcia, I'll give her a week if she can last a week! I just don't want to torture her unnecessarily, you know?

 

:(

Sad.

 

 

[CaliforniaGreys]

I won't say don't give up Xan, because I had to listen very closely to Misty for her to tell me to stop.

 

It's tough no doubt about it. You're both in my prayers. Listen closely to her Xan, she'll tell you

[ElizabethGPAPS]

Have you tried force-feeding her? Turkey dogs go down easily, as do those logs of dog food (the ones that look like big sausages hanging on racks at the pet store) cut and shaped to about hotdog size. I've also heard of people using refrigerated (so it's firm) loaf-style dog food, cut in quarters. Dampen in warm water and poke it down the right side of the throat as you're facing the dog. I know it's not a long-term solution...quality of life issues come into play when you're doing something so unpleasant to your poor pup several times every day, but it can buy some time and maybe even get the appetite working again. It did with Isabella. She would go into these spirals of starvation every so often and I'd forcefeed her and she would come out of it. Sometimes just getting something in her empty tummy seemed to make her want more.

[Guest Energy11]

Max, 12.5, who had Osteo, did very well, for a long time. When "the end" was coming for him, he stopped eating. We tried various things, and one thing he would eat, was Science Diet AD, which is for sick, dying and dogs recouperating from major illnesses. The Saturday before he was sent to "The Bridge," he refused everything. I think he was trying to tell us, he had had enough.

 

I would "listen" to Happy, ... not eating might mean, like it did with Max, that is is "time." BUT, only you and Happy will know that for sure!

 

Love, hugs and good Luck!

[Xan]

Have you tried force-feeding her? Turkey dogs go down easily, as do those logs of dog food (the ones that look like big sausages hanging on racks at the pet store) cut and shaped to about hotdog size. I've also heard of people using refrigerated (so it's firm) loaf-style dog food, cut in quarters. Dampen in warm water and poke it down the right side of the throat as you're facing the dog. I know it's not a long-term solution...quality of life issues come into play when you're doing something so unpleasant to your poor pup several times every day, but it can buy some time and maybe even get the appetite working again. It did with Isabella. She would go into these spirals of starvation every so often and I'd forcefeed her and she would come out of it. Sometimes just getting something in her empty tummy seemed to make her want more.

I'm close to trying that again. The last time I tried it, she just promptly puked it back up. So far, what seems to work when it works is if I hand feed her 'til she decides it's worth eating, IF she does. And again when she slows down again. I've managed to get almost 1/4c into her today. Not that her body is using it. The right side of her mouth? That's interesting. Is there a reason for that?

 

ahicks has sent me some interesting stuff about naltrexone, and I'll ask about starting her on that, too.

 

This is my list right now:

Cyproheptadine/Periactin for appetite

naltrexone

buffalo

ultrasound

L-glutamine

 

Also, more blood tests and urinalysis to see if we've beaten down the two infections, and where her organs are at. Ask about continuing with B12, about doing more plasma ...

 

... and about when is it clinically clear she's not going to get better?

[greyhead]

You have our support in whatever you decide.

[ElizabethGPAPS]

When facing the animal - trachea toward the left, esophagus toward the right. We had that drilled into us at the wildlife center I used to volunteer at. There was a lot of tube-feeding and force-feeding, and if someone accidentally poked the food down the wrong hole it would generally kill the animal.

[Xan]

When facing the animal - trachea toward the left, esophagus toward the right. We had that drilled into us at the wildlife center I used to volunteer at. There was a lot of tube-feeding and force-feeding, and if someone accidentally poked the food down the wrong hole it would generally kill the animal.

Whoa. They're on opposite sides?? I did not know that.

 

I had to tube feed a goat for awhile. I don't remember that being mentioned. (The goat did die, but he was paralyzed, so it wasn't really in question.)

 

Thanks Elizabeth. I'll try it.

[Guest MZH]

Marcia, I'll give her a week if she can last a week! I just don't want to torture her unnecessarily, you know?

 

Sad.

 

 

 

Xan, I do know and I wouldn't urge you to keep her going if she's that miserable. I never heard of death breath and that shocked me when I read it, but if that's what she has, you have to do what's best for her. She sure is sick for a girl with no diagnosis (unless I missed something) except for having two bad infections that don't seem to be going away.

[Xan]

Just got back from the vet's office. No vet (he's out of town 'til tomorrow), but I had the tech put in another IV, and give me some more fluids and B12. She hasn't been drinking enough, and got dehydrated again. She's taking a big bag right now, with B12.

 

She's lost more weight, of course. She's now at 48.8 pounds. She should be above 60.

 

Her diagnosis is based on blood tests, observation, and xrays (back last year). I know it's not conclusive without a biopsy, but I'm not going to do that to her while she's so sick. If she pulls out of this, then maybe. I'm going to add to my list of questions if there's any way to tell what gut bugs we might be dealing with, or other means of getting a toe-hold on this.

 

On the way home, I bought some ground turkey, and ground bison. I'm thawing the turkey, first. (So weird, having meat in the house! )

 

Poor Wabi is feeling quite put out of my personal spotlight these days!

[Guest Energy11]

Glad you are doing the fluids. Did they give you Lactated Ringers? It is good stuff!

 

Good Luck on the ground turkey and bison, too. Maybe once she becomes re-hydrated, she might feel like eating?

 

Hoping for a good evening for you all!