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Ibd - Happy Starving!


Xan

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Thanks, 3dognight. I'm leary of the syringe method: she puked last time I tried that. :P But ...

 

Mary! That might be the tide-me-over solution I'm looking for! Thanks! :D

 

I did find Bud. 3mg at $.56/capsule, for 100 caps at CanadaDrugCenter.com. Here's a deal! If we refer each other, we can earn $25! From their site:

You can now collect $25 for every friend or family member you refer to us who places an order. Your referred friend will also receive a $25 credit when they place their first order. With the CanadaDrugCenter.com Refer-A-Friend Program, everyone saves money! Simply enter the email addresses of the friends you would like to refer to us into the form below. We will email them a welcome letter to introduce them to our service. If they place an online order (using the same email address you provided) with us at CanadaDrugCenter.com we will automatically give them a $25 discount on their order and credit your account with $25 as well. It’s that simple. You refer a friend. They place an order. You both make $25!

PM me if you think you'll order from them, so we can both get some $$! :D

GT-siggy-spring12.jpg

My Inspirations: Grey Pogo, borzoi Katie, Meep the cat, AND MY BELOVED DH!!!
Missing Rowdy, Coco, Brilly, Happy and Wabi.

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This thread could use a little sweetener, don't you think?

H-W-cuddle.jpg

Awww! :wub:

 

Poor Happy! She peed a lake on the kitchen floor (just as the vet's office was calling me back!), then pooped when I took her out in the yard. Didn't eat much, but I did syringe the slippery elm and some prebiotics in after stuffing her throat with her pills. I'm waiting for her second bag of plasma to thaw out, then give it to her, then off to the vet to pick up the B12, and to get more of the fish kibble she's decided is acceptable (for now) ...

 

I really need a shower! :P I have visions of leaving her muzzled, and she chokes on vomit, or unmuzzled and she rips out her IV port and bleeds to death! Gah!

Edited by Xan

GT-siggy-spring12.jpg

My Inspirations: Grey Pogo, borzoi Katie, Meep the cat, AND MY BELOVED DH!!!
Missing Rowdy, Coco, Brilly, Happy and Wabi.

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You are right - you are delirious - and that photo is very sweet! :wub::wub::wub: Hope beautiful Miss Happy continues to eat and drink. Hugs and scritches.

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:wub: That's a very sweet picture :) My pups (who are, in general, not really cuddly with each other) tend to snuggle up a little bit to anyone that is not feeling well...it's so cute. They may not be as close as your kids are in that pic, but they're much closer to each other than "normal."

 

Yeah, there were some TOTW recalls on the salmon - IIRC it really turned out to be nothing super serious - there was too much of an ingredient in there or something, and it only affected food out of a certain plant :dunno There are a couple of threads somewhere in food and dietary that gave good information.

Kristin in Moline, IL USA with Ozzie (MRL Crusin Clem), Clarice (Clarice McBones), Latte and Sage the IGs, and the kitties: Violet and Rose
Lovingly Remembered: Sutra (Fliowa Sutra) 12/02/97-10/12/10, Pinky (Pick Me) 04/20/03-11/19/12, Fritz (Fritz Fire) 02/05/01 - 05/20/13, Ace (Fantastic Ace) 02/05/01 - 07/05/13, and Carrie (Takin the Crumbs) 05/08/99 - 09/04/13.

A cure for cancer can't come soon enough.--

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That must be the Wab-let snuggled up with her? :wub: :wub:

 

Really hoping she improves.

Star aka Starz Ovation (Ronco x Oneco Maggie*, litter #48538), Coco aka Low Key (Kiowa Mon Manny x Party Hardy, litter # 59881), and mom in Illinois
We miss Reko Batman (Trouper Zeke x Marque Louisiana), 11/15/95-6/29/06, Rocco the thistledown whippet, 04/29/93-10/14/08, Reko Zema (Mo Kick x Reko Princess), 8/16/98-4/18/10, the most beautiful girl in the whole USA, my good egg Joseph aka Won by a Nose (Oneco Cufflink x Buy Back), 09/22/2003-03/01/2013, and our gentle sweet Gidget (Digitizer, Dodgem by Design x Sobe Mulberry), 1/29/2006-11/22/2014, gone much too soon. Never forgetting CJC's Buckshot, 1/2/07-10/25/10.

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Yup, that's the Waboline tucked in there. You can't see it, but her front legs were all tangled up in layers with Happy's back legs. Wabi's a big snuggler, but not everyone will let her. :wub:

 

Well, I managed to get a unit of plasma into her this afternoon. It took FOR.EV.ER, and she ripped the needle right out, bending the needle, when someone drove up to the house and she jumped up with the boys. Okay, I was glad to see she had the juice to jump up at all, but ... OW! Didn't that HURT?? Yikes. (I bet that plasma is going to smell bad, if I didn't get it all out of the rug and dog bed. :P ) Got into town, picked up the B-12 and got a little tutorial on how to get it into the bag. Heck, after the plasma, this is easy-peazy! Wish I had one of those sky hooks like they do, though.

 

She ate about 1 cup of the fish kibble, so yeay! Then had totally liquid Big D. That's new. So booo. But she didn't vomit (yet), so yeay!

 

In the short in between times, I managed to finish a painting, and get started on another, so yeay! :)

GT-siggy-spring12.jpg

My Inspirations: Grey Pogo, borzoi Katie, Meep the cat, AND MY BELOVED DH!!!
Missing Rowdy, Coco, Brilly, Happy and Wabi.

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Maybe I missed it -- but did she test low on B-12? I have intestinal malabsorption but tested normal on B-12. I don't need it, apparently, and neither may Happy.

 

OK, I have big time bowel trouble and am on Entocort (budesonide). I didn't know one can get it as budesonide if you go outside the US! I get mine at Walmart and it's cheaper than Costco IIRC. Nothing here is as inexpensive as in Canada though; wow!

 

As for Pepcid and antacids, please don't give them unless you know for sure she requires it. The docs told me to take Pepcid, Prilosec, and other such things for my digestive issues but they made me *much* sicker than before I took them! There's such a thing as hypochlorhydria (low acid) but the docs don't seem to know much, if anything, about it. Giving antacids to a person or a dog who is already low acid will make things even worse, believe me. Happy may truly need them but she may not either!

 

Sometimes the docs say to try this or that medication only becasue they don't know what else to do. Happy might do well visiting a veterinary internal med specialist and perhaps have an endoscopy so she can have a real diagnosis. I have a friend with a dog like Happy and that's what she did and she was able to manage her IBD quite well once she knew what she was dealing with. PM me if you want more details.

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I would think that the Slippery elm will make the poop better, not worse. if you can do the 3 doses today.

 

My old gal is VERY picky and have been thru a lot of what you have, I have never done the plasma or b12.... but getting Darbee-doo to eat can

be a real challenge. My heart is with you and hope that Happy will be improving soon!!!

 

Has anyone started A Happy chant yet?

 

come on Happy, eat for your mom and kick this thing i the bud! come on Happy, eat for your mom and kick this thing in the bud! come on Happy, eat for your mom and kick this thing in the bud! come on Happy, eat for your mom and kick this thing in the bud! come on Happy, eat for your mom and kick this thing in the bud! come on Happy, eat for your mom and kick this thing in the bud! come on Happy, eat for your mom and kick this thing in the bud!

 

not as good as some chants, but hope it helps!!

:goodluck

 

lorinda, mom to the ever revolving door of Foster greyhounds

Always in my heart: Teala (LC Sweet Dream) , Pepton, Darbee-Do (Hey Barb) , Rascal (Abitta Rascal), Power (Beyond the Power), and the miracle boy LAZER (2/21/14), Spirit (Bitter Almonds) 8/14

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Marcia, it's a good question about the B12. I was wondering about whether it showed on her blood tests, and will ask when I talk to the vet again. I suppose it can't hurt, in the mean time. I've watched B12 give very sick goats a new lease on life, so I was willing to give it a try for Happy.

 

I'd read similar things about antacids in regards to heartburn, and I've only been giving the pepcid ... well, rarely. I'm not sure I see any difference if I do or don't, frankly. And, you're right, the stomach needs acid to begin breakdown of food, and is only a problem if there's too much of it, or it's going the wrong places or something. She needs all the help she can get breaking down her food, so I'm not just tossing it down willy nilly. Good to bring it up.

 

As far as scoping Happy, I really don't want to do that at this stage. She's 10 1/2 years old, in pretty frail condition, with two nasty bacteria present ... I don't think she's up to it. Even knowing that it limits our ability to figure out exactly what we're dealing with. :(

 

3dognite, I've decided to give the slippery elm at least 3 times a day, or before every meal. Even though D is a common symptom of IBD, it did come as a surprise (to both of us! the look on her face!), after the very well-formed poop she's been having the last couple days. One complication of throwing so much at her at once is figuring out what's doing what! :unsure

 

Thanks for the chant! It's a very good chant. :) Keep it up! :lol

Edited by Xan

GT-siggy-spring12.jpg

My Inspirations: Grey Pogo, borzoi Katie, Meep the cat, AND MY BELOVED DH!!!
Missing Rowdy, Coco, Brilly, Happy and Wabi.

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Xan, I have been reading along and wondering if her skin problems could be at all related... I know nothing about ibd in dogs, so haven't posted anything because I haven't had anything truly useful to say... but Happy is in my thoughts and I am sending lots of white light to her poor, unhappy tummy.

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OK, I have big time bowel trouble and am on Entocort (budesonide). I didn't know one can get it as budesonide if you go outside the US! I get mine at Walmart and it's cheaper than Costco IIRC. Nothing here is as inexpensive as in Canada though; wow!

 

These may not all be equivalent. Entocort EC is enteric coated so as to release in the relevant portion of the intestine; enteric coatings dissolve at a high pH, meaning once they pass the duodenum. In theory, this enhances absorption where it's needed most- the intestine.

 

It is possible to add all kinds of gunk that delays absorption, but nothing works quite so well as the enteric coating. Or, at least, I'm sure that's what the company would argue as that is almost certainly patented, hence the $9/pill cost from Costco that Xan cited elsewhere. I'm pretty sure 3 mg of budesonide doesn't cost $9 to synthesize and purify, and Entocort EC's patent doesn't expire until 2011. That's where your big price difference between the brand-name stuff and the compounding/overseas stuff comes from: the patent.

 

From this, one can debate back and forth: does the enteric coating make that much of a difference? I can assure you the company would say it does. The compounding pharmacist may say yes or no. Ultimately, it's up to the patient, as I'm pretty sure some would say generic or compounded works fine, and others would say they prefer the brand-name stuff.

Coco (Maze Cocodrillo)

Minerva (Kid's Snipper)

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Well, the chant must have helped. This morning's poop was fully formed, and didn't appear to be quite as unaffected by digestion. So yeay!

 

However, right now, she's objecting to her IV, which I don't blame her for! Poor thing. She's pulled out the needle once already. *sigh*

 

The enteric coating is an issue of interest. Right now, I'm crossing my fingers, and waiting for the mail.

 

She did eat about 3/4c of the Happy-approved fish kibble this morning, and I did get more slippery elm, mixed with prebiotics, into her.

 

Cara-Lea, I've thought the skin and digestive issues were related all along. The vet thinks it's likely, too. On that note, her rash area is looking pristine, so yeay! :)

 

Thanks for the continued good thoughts, folks! It means so much, as most of you already know!

GT-siggy-spring12.jpg

My Inspirations: Grey Pogo, borzoi Katie, Meep the cat, AND MY BELOVED DH!!!
Missing Rowdy, Coco, Brilly, Happy and Wabi.

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FWIW, I'm sticking to Entocort b/c it works so well for me. Technically, it's still under patent until May 2011 so I don't understand how budesonide can be the same as Entocort. I know budesonide is used in asthma meds too so I guess it's available for whatever purposes people come up with. If it works well, that's great!

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FWIW, I'm sticking to Entocort b/c it works so well for me. Technically, it's still under patent until May 2011 so I don't understand how budesonide can be the same as Entocort. I know budesonide is used in asthma meds too so I guess it's available for whatever purposes people come up with. If it works well, that's great!

If I'm not mistaken, budesonide and Entocort are the same thing.

Mary with Jumper Jack (2/17/11) and angels Shane (PA's Busta Rime, 12/10/02 - 10/14/16) and Spencer (Dutch Laser, 11/25/00 - 3/29/13).

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Cara-Lea, I've thought the skin and digestive issues were related all along. The vet thinks it's likely, too. On that note, her rash area is looking pristine, so yeay! :)

 

WOOHOO!!! I keep meaning to email you back about another attempt at a shirt for her.. I know you're juggling a lot right now, but do let me know if you want to give it another shot.

 

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FWIW, I'm sticking to Entocort b/c it works so well for me. Technically, it's still under patent until May 2011 so I don't understand how budesonide can be the same as Entocort. I know budesonide is used in asthma meds too so I guess it's available for whatever purposes people come up with. If it works well, that's great!

If I'm not mistaken, budesonide and Entocort are the same thing.

 

Sort of but not exactly. Entocort EC means enteric coated so this means it dissolves in the ileum where humans need it to dissolve. But budesonide is not enteric coated so it dissolves earlier. But this may actually be a good thing b/c dogs -- and cats -- may *need* it to dissolve earlier. AHicks51 has explained a lot of this enteric business vs plain old budesonide and so does this veterinarian on http://www.wedgewoodpharmacy.com/monographs/budesonide.asp. It seems that small animals may need it to dissolve sooner -- so it may actually be better than Entocort EC for dogs and cats. Woo hoo!

 

I have to wonder how the dissolving action of budesonide compares to that of prednisone or prednisolone. Interesting.

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Thinking about you guys ~ How is Happy doing today?

lorinda, mom to the ever revolving door of Foster greyhounds

Always in my heart: Teala (LC Sweet Dream) , Pepton, Darbee-Do (Hey Barb) , Rascal (Abitta Rascal), Power (Beyond the Power), and the miracle boy LAZER (2/21/14), Spirit (Bitter Almonds) 8/14

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Marcia! What a neat bit of info! I'll have to go read that. Thanks!

 

3DogNite, thanks. It's slow going. I'm hoping she's eating enough to at least slow down her starvation, at this point. She is eating, little bits through the day. She's decided on the fish kibble, and only dry will do. Fresh from the bag, un-licked or -sniffed, to be specific. :rolleyes: Her poop is still good, after a blip of D, and one greenandgooey that I think may have been because I offered her ONE venison kibble. :blink: She's drinking on her own reliably too.

 

The budesonide came yesterday, so she got her first one.

 

And I got to take out her IV. That was fun. I found that liberally soaking the bandage in olive oil dissolved the adhesive nicely, btw. Now she'll get her remaining B 12 injections subQ.

 

Out in the yard, she was momentarily playful when Brilly went on a spinning tear, which is always good to see. :) She's just SO skinny. I'm just hoping we can get her fattened up before we lose her!

GT-siggy-spring12.jpg

My Inspirations: Grey Pogo, borzoi Katie, Meep the cat, AND MY BELOVED DH!!!
Missing Rowdy, Coco, Brilly, Happy and Wabi.

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Given how things have been, that's actually a good report. Hoping hard for more progress. Soon.

Standard Poodle Daisy (12/13), Grey Toodles (BL Toodles 7/09)
Missing Cora (RL Nevada 5/99-10/09), Piper (Cee Bar Easy 2/99-1/10), Tally (Thunder La La 9/99-3/10), Edie (Daring Reva 9/99-10/12), Dixie (Kiowa Secret Sue 11/01-1/13), Jessie (P's Real Time 11/98-3/13), token boy Graham (Zydeco Dancer 9/00-5/13), Cal (Back Already 12/99-11/13), Betsy (Back Kick Beth 11/98-12/13), Standard Poodles Minnie (1/99-1/14) + Perry (9/98-2/14), Annie (Do Marcia 9/03-10/14), Pink (Miss Pinky Baker 1/02-6/15), Poppy (Cmon Err Not 8/05-1/16), Kat (Jax Candy 5/05-5/17), Ivy (Jax Isis 10/07-7/21), Hildy (Braska Hildy 7/10-12/22), Opal (Jax Opal 7/08-4/23)

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Xan, the fact that she still has that spunk about her is very encouraging. Even when Sutra looked like a bag of bones and wouldn't eat...he would still get up to go potty and after a couple of days at my house, would come to us for love. The first time I heard him barking inside the house when I got home from work, I cried :blush To me, that meant that although he looked terrible and we still had some hurdles to get over, he still had "it" and wasn't giving up :)

Kristin in Moline, IL USA with Ozzie (MRL Crusin Clem), Clarice (Clarice McBones), Latte and Sage the IGs, and the kitties: Violet and Rose
Lovingly Remembered: Sutra (Fliowa Sutra) 12/02/97-10/12/10, Pinky (Pick Me) 04/20/03-11/19/12, Fritz (Fritz Fire) 02/05/01 - 05/20/13, Ace (Fantastic Ace) 02/05/01 - 07/05/13, and Carrie (Takin the Crumbs) 05/08/99 - 09/04/13.

A cure for cancer can't come soon enough.--

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Thanks so much, y'all. :)

She ate a decent (for her) amount this evening, and even made a couple DASHES after Pogo in the yard when he went on a few furious laps (a little bit of cabin fever with this weather!)

 

I appreciate the positive thinking, and the experience collected and shared here of good outcomes. I keep thinking, she's going to hate me for all this stuff I've been doing to her, but no. She wants to be where I am all the time, even if it means getting up from a nice comfy bed to follow me to another room (where there is also a comfy bed, of course!) :wub: She's such a sweet dog.

 

Kristin, I so understand. Happy is a whiner. She's been so quiet over the last couple weeks, that when I heard her whine today, it actually lifted my heart. :lol Maybe we'll make it, yet. THAT would be something to be thankful for!

GT-siggy-spring12.jpg

My Inspirations: Grey Pogo, borzoi Katie, Meep the cat, AND MY BELOVED DH!!!
Missing Rowdy, Coco, Brilly, Happy and Wabi.

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It sounds like you are on the right track! It is very slow going, but baby steps will get you, and Happy, there in the end.

 

:kiss2 for Happy

 

Yep...baby steps are the important thing to remember. I recall when I first got Sutra and I just wanted to get him as fattened up as I possibly could, as fast as I could (I know better but when your heart gets in the way it's hard to be intelligent sometimes :blush )...so I would be slightly disappointed when we'd go for his checkups and he'd *only* gained a couple of pounds in 2 weeks. Our vet just kept telling me, BABY STEPS!

 

Every day I make sure to stop by this thread and see how your little sweetheart is doing :wub:

Kristin in Moline, IL USA with Ozzie (MRL Crusin Clem), Clarice (Clarice McBones), Latte and Sage the IGs, and the kitties: Violet and Rose
Lovingly Remembered: Sutra (Fliowa Sutra) 12/02/97-10/12/10, Pinky (Pick Me) 04/20/03-11/19/12, Fritz (Fritz Fire) 02/05/01 - 05/20/13, Ace (Fantastic Ace) 02/05/01 - 07/05/13, and Carrie (Takin the Crumbs) 05/08/99 - 09/04/13.

A cure for cancer can't come soon enough.--

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