Sox - Issues with Liquid Diarrhea

[phall]

Posting this to get thoughts and hear similar experiences.  Sox is my 8 year old female greyhound.  A few months ago she started having occasional bouts of liquid diarrhea.  She'd have one liquid stool and then later that same day, she'd be back to normal.  This would happen once a week or so. These occasional bouts began to increase until a few weeks back she was having liquid diarrhea all the time.  We've been to he vets.  Stool sample came back clear - no parasites of any kind.  She was put on metronidazole, a probiotic, and pumpkin.  Her stools returned to normal.  She finished the course of metronidazole and the probiotic, and the liquid diarrhea returned.  I talked with my vet last night - we're putting her back on the probiotic and will continue the pumpkin to see if that helps the diarrhea.  (He's giving my additional metronidazole to have on hand in case this doesn't work.)  She's scheduled for blood work on Friday morning.  If the blood work comes back normal and the liquid diarrhea returns even with being on the probiotic and pumpkin, we'll most likely be doing an ultrasound.  Has anyone had a similar experience?  It's worrisome to me.

[1Moregrey]

Sorry Sox is having liquid diarrhea it is no fun and stressful for all.  Glad she is going in for test to get to the root of the cause.  
 

Journey came to me with hookworms and she would have liquid diarrhea on a kind of schedule must of been during a certain life stage and would range from liquid to slimy to pudding.  She would also lose her appetite during this time.  She was on different medication for the hookworms what finally got them under control was Simparica trio.  I had really good results with giving her buttermilk it enticed her to eat and also firmed up her stools.  

[Houndtime]

My 11 year old Odin is having the same issues.  Initially, we attributed it to the heart worm meds, but then it started occurring at different times of the month.  Even though he was making puddles, he had no urgency.  He looks to us like he has lost weight.  Like you, we tried many things.  Last week, our vet had us tried Hills WD and it worked!  We now have him on Hills Chicken and Barley, which you can buy over the counter at the pet store or on line.  It also seems to be working, but, time will tell.  So far, so good!  Good luck with your grey.

[greysmom]

Generally, a probiotic needs to be given every day to be effective, not just on an as-needed basis.  It keeps the gut bacteria in balance and working properly.  It's odd that you're also giving metronidazole at the same time as that is an antibiotic which is toxic to microorganisms.  So those two things are actually working against each other.  

Have you changed her food at all??  Or noticed her same food smelling differently or looking differently???  Often, companies will change the recipe or the sourcing for ingredients without having to mention it to anyone, and it will cause issues.  Has your vet suggested doing a food trial to see if she has any allergies or intolerances??

The classic thing to do when diarrhea starts is to immediately fast the dog until the diarrhea stops, then one meal time more.  Make sure there's plenty of clean water available so she doesn't get dehydrated.  Once the diarrhea has stopped, restart her feeding using a bland diet - low fat protein (different from what's in her regular food) and a bland carb source, also different from her usual food.  Lots of people use rice, but you can use pasta or oatmeal or anything she will eat.  Start with a small amount - like a 1/4 cup - once an hour.  If she eats it and the diarrhea doesn't start back up, keep up that schedule for another day, gradually increasing the amount.  If the diarrhea does start again, go back to fasting, and try changing the protein source for the next round.

As Irene said above, a Rx diet or one made to help gut health can also be helpful.  But one way or another, it's best to get to the bottom of the problem as soon as possible.  If she's having diarrhea that often she's going to lose weight very quickly since she's not getting much nutrition from her food.  If your vet is running out of options it might be best to consult a vet who specializes in gastroenterology.

[racindog]

17 hours ago, greysmom said:

Generally, a probiotic needs to be given every day to be effective, not just on an as-needed basis.  It keeps the gut bacteria in balance and working properly.  It's odd that you're also giving metronidazole at the same time as that is an antibiotic which is toxic to microorganisms.  So those two things are actually working against each other.  

Have you changed her food at all??  Or noticed her same food smelling differently or looking differently???  Often, companies will change the recipe or the sourcing for ingredients without having to mention it to anyone, and it will cause issues.  Has your vet suggested doing a food trial to see if she has any allergies or intolerances??

The classic thing to do when diarrhea starts is to immediately fast the dog until the diarrhea stops, then one meal time more.  Make sure there's plenty of clean water available so she doesn't get dehydrated.  Once the diarrhea has stopped, restart her feeding using a bland diet - low fat protein (different from what's in her regular food) and a bland carb source, also different from her usual food.  Lots of people use rice, but you can use pasta or oatmeal or anything she will eat.  Start with a small amount - like a 1/4 cup - once an hour.  If she eats it and the diarrhea doesn't start back up, keep up that schedule for another day, gradually increasing the amount.  If the diarrhea does start again, go back to fasting, and try changing the protein source for the next round.

As Irene said above, a Rx diet or one made to help gut health can also be helpful.  But one way or another, it's best to get to the bottom of the problem as soon as possible.  If she's having diarrhea that often she's going to lose weight very quickly since she's not getting much nutrition from her food.  If your vet is running out of options it might be best to consult a vet who specializes in gastroenterology.

Ditto. My thoughts exactly.

[phall]

Thanks, everyone, for sharing your experience. It's so helpful.  I'll add some more info here based on your input (that I probably should have included with the initial post) - thankfully, her stool sample came back clear so no hookworms or other parasites.  My vet and I talked about changing her food - which we decided against doing as she is already on a prescription urinary diet due to recurring UTIs a few years ago.  Once on the prescription urinary diet, the UTIs stopped.  So, I have not changed her diet recently either. We did a food trial on her when she was having some skin inflammation around her neck and shoulders a couple of years ago to check for allergies and intolerances. The tests didn't show anything. (As you can tell, Sox has had several health issues over the years.)

When she started with the diarrhea, I did fast her for 24  hours and then started her on a bland diet.  It did help the diarrhea and I very slowly started her back on her regular food, but the diarrhea started again. (I used pasta and boiled hamburg). But I only did it that once. Doing it again with a different protein is a good idea. I will remember that.

Greysmom - I did not know that about metronidazole and the probiotic.  I wonder why my vet prescribed that. I will talk with him about it.  Thank you for the recommendation of seeing a gastroenterologist if my vet runs out of options and the issue continues.  I will most definitely do that.

The last day or so, with her being on the probiotic and pure pumpkin, so far no diarrhea.  (I'm not giving her the metronidazole.)  We'll see how this continues. Fingers crossed.  Even if she continues to do well these next few days, I will still do the blood work on Friday.

Thank you everyone. I so appreciate it.

[greysmom]

I would still definitely do the abdominal ultrasound, as well.  It's quick and easy, no sedation, and can tell you a lot about what's going on in a complicated area of the body.  You might also have them do her heart at the same time, just to cross that off the list of possibles.  Have them read by a professional radiologist, not just your vet.  Vets know a lot, but they can't know everything about every specialty.

If she doesn't have a bacterial overgrowth (SIBO) or some other reason for the metro, it just might not be needed.  It's also a kind of "standard" first line treatment for any unknown digestive issue.  But it doesn't always help and can sometimes be counterproductive.

She also might do better with several small meals a day rather than two larger feedings.  Or she might do better with only one meal a day.  It's "keeping something always on her stomach" vs "letting her system rest in between meals."   Regarding allergies/intolerances - remember to check all treats for offending foods too.

Sox   

[phall]

Thanks so much, Greysmom.  This is so helpful to me.  She has been doing well, but this morning had a stool that started out formed but then turned to liquid, so I would guess, based on past experience, that it will continue to go down hill today.  But we'll see - maybe it was just a blip.  I'm so glad we have the bloodwork scheduled for tomorrow.  I had been thinking about the ultrasound and my vet suggested it as a next step, but hearing your thoughts has helped me to decide to move forward with it.  

I will keep you (and everyone who has offered their thoughts) posted.  Thanks again.

[Time4ANap]

Rocket had similar issues for no obvious reason. He was evetnually diagnosed with stress colitis. Just randome bouts of pudding poos and upset stomach which usually was noticeable at first by the tummy squeals. 

We eventually had to put him on Tylan twice a day which took care of 99% of the issues. Tylan requires a prescription and comes in a powder form,. it tastes awful so you cannot just sprinkle it on the food as some articles suggest. Your vet will need to calculate the correct dosage for the dog's weight and the easiest way to administer it is to put the powder in capsules. We would give him the capsules in a small piece of cheese which worked well for him. Tylan is not a drug that they will prescribe first or initially, it is kind of a last resort, long term problem solver if it works for the dog. 

We bought the empty gelatin capsules online and filled them by hand. The tylan powder is very lightweight and sort of goes everywhere, so you may want to wear a maks when filling the capsules just to avoid breathing it in since it is a medication. Your vet can figure the dosage pretty closely to help you figure out which size empty capsules you need if you do end up needing to use tylan. 

Rocket would often have tummy squeals first thing in the morning if he was having a flare of colitis. As long as I heard those squeals, I would give him a  small meal of Evangers Organic Cooked Chicken to settle his stomach. It is bland and is only chicken, no other ingredients. Often giving him that meal would avoid the flare up and he'd be looking for his regular breakfast a few hours later.  YMMV of course, but it's what ended up working for us along with the Tylan. 

Rocket along with a few other dogs here on GT with similar issues had good results with Purina Pro Plan Large Breed food. For several of the dogs here with similar issues, it just about totally resolved the stomach and diarrhea issues. Since you have other considerations with the urinary diet, it may not be an option but may be worth a try if your vet okays the food. https://www.chewy.com/purina-pro-plan-adult-large-breed/dp/52396 (This is kibble, not the shreds.) 

Good luck! 

[macoduck]

I had greyhound who had worse poo when I added pure pumpkin, even when I cut it down to just a teaspoon. Some have had good success with the Owelo carrot product. https://olewousa.com/

Do you have a birdbath in your yard?  Drinking from that was the cause of 3 of my dogs getting diarrhea at the same time.

[FiveRoooooers]

We have been on a rollercoaster lately with Punkin, who is prone to pancreatitis. Just two days ago I remembered the Tylan in our pharmaceutical pantry and started her on that twice a day. She is doing soo much better. Her poop* has firmed up and she is way less gassy. YMMV of course but this has been working for us. Angel Segugio had been on Tylan for a couple of years before we stopped it without any backsliding. Good luck to your pup, we understand the worry and frustration.

*Our snow is mostly gone and Punkin is now looking for alternative stations 

[phall]

Thanks, everyone, I really appreciate hearing from you.  I've noted the info on the Tylan powder (great idea to add it to empty capsules!).  I had not heard of Owelo carrot product, but I am going to read more about it.

Sox had her bloodwork done this morning.  I'll have the results on Monday. Her diarrhea is back most of the time now so the probiotic did not help.  She's on metronidazole over the weekend while we wait for blood work results.  Once we get that info, we'll make the plan for the next step(s).

[cleptogrey]

annie was on flagyl for nearly 6 months until her "colitis" calmed down. 2 weeks on, off and 2 days later puddles. the vet decided to put her on it and have me reduce it slightly after a month. back on it- and i finally found a lower dose that was effective. rice & chicken and ID diet for quite some time. she dropped weight initially but put it back on.

all of this was stress induced colitis! we were vending at a grapehounds event which turned into a nightmare since it was in the high 90s the entire time. the heat and camping and everything else was just too much. she showed no signs of stress at the show. it was after.

i did ask about tylan vs flagyl. it's the vet's preference. dogs can live on limited food- ie rice and cooked chicken or turkey/beef indefinitely. my saluki survived parvo and lived on rice for 6.5 yrs- his digestive system couldn't take anything else.

good luck

[Houndtime]

12 hours ago, Time4ANap said:

Rocket had similar issues for no obvious reason. He was evetnually diagnosed with stress colitis. Just randome bouts of pudding poos and upset stomach which usually was noticeable at first by the tummy squeals. 

We eventually had to put him on Tylan twice a day which took care of 99% of the issues. Tylan requires a prescription and comes in a powder form,. it tastes awful so you cannot just sprinkle it on the food as some articles suggest. Your vet will need to calculate the correct dosage for the dog's weight and the easiest way to administer it is to put the powder in capsules. We would give him the capsules in a small piece of cheese which worked well for him. Tylan is not a drug that they will prescribe first or initially, it is kind of a last resort, long term problem solver if it works for the dog. 

We bought the empty gelatin capsules online and filled them by hand. The tylan powder is very lightweight and sort of goes everywhere, so you may want to wear a maks when filling the capsules just to avoid breathing it in since it is a medication. Your vet can figure the dosage pretty closely to help you figure out which size empty capsules you need if you do end up needing to use tylan. 

Rocket would often have tummy squeals first thing in the morning if he was having a flare of colitis. As long as I heard those squeals, I would give him a  small meal of Evangers Organic Cooked Chicken to settle his stomach. It is bland and is only chicken, no other ingredients. Often giving him that meal would avoid the flare up and he'd be looking for his regular breakfast a few hours later.  YMMV of course, but it's what ended up working for us along with the Tylan. 

Rocket along with a few other dogs here on GT with similar issues had good results with Purina Pro Plan Large Breed food. For several of the dogs here with similar issues, it just about totally resolved the stomach and diarrhea issues. Since you have other considerations with the urinary diet, it may not be an option but may be worth a try if your vet okays the food. https://www.chewy.com/purina-pro-plan-adult-large-breed/dp/52396 (This is kibble, not the shreds.) 

Good luck! 

Interesting.  I use Evangers and most people have never heard of it.  I find the chicken and rice works very well, also.  I do have the organic chicken too.  Compared to some of the canned foods, it is very reasonably priced.  For those who care; it is Kosher and Kosher for Passover.  

I have been using the Hills Chicken and Barley this time and so far it is working.

[FiveRoooooers]

1 hour ago, Houndtime said:

Interesting.  I use Evangers and most people have never heard of it.  I find the chicken and rice works very well, also.  I do have the organic chicken too.  Compared to some of the canned foods, it is very reasonably priced.  For those who care; it is Kosher and Kosher for Passover.  

I have been using the Hills Chicken and Barley this time and so far it is working.

@Time4ANap Irene, that's good to know about the chicken and rice, too. At Don and Rocket's suggestion, we've been using Evanger's Canned Organic Chicken and it is often the only thing Punkin will eat after she's declined everything else. Thanks!

[Time4ANap]

2 hours ago, Houndtime said:

Interesting.  I use Evangers and most people have never heard of it.  I find the chicken and rice works very well, also.  I do have the organic chicken too.  Compared to some of the canned foods, it is very reasonably priced.  For those who care; it is Kosher and Kosher for Passover.  

I have been using the Hills Chicken and Barley this time and so far it is working.

 

44 minutes ago, FiveRoooooers said:

@Time4ANap Irene, that's good to know about the chicken and rice, too. At Don and Rocket's suggestion, we've been using Evanger's Canned Organic Chicken and it is often the only thing Punkin will eat after she's declined everything else. Thanks!

We always have a case of the 'magic chicken" on the shelf. I have even handed a can to neighbors who couldn't get their dogs to eat or keep food down and they are always shocked when the dog chows down on it. My brother couldn't get his Aussie to eat anything at one point and the only thing that worked was the Evanger's Organic Chicken.  it think the smell is attractive to them, and the consistency of it makes it really easy on their stomach. We have nursed a lot of dogs back from whatever was ailing them with that Organic Chicken. 

I do sometimes alternate with the Chicken and Rice if I can't get the Organic Chicken. Both seem to be pretty similar. I have also mixed the Organic Chicken with scrambled eggs, mushy rice, pasta or green beans if we are slowly working back to regular food just to keep them interested. 

[cleptogrey]

as per chicken and rice try cooking the chicken(easier if cut up into quarters, skin removed) in the rice.

a dish no dog can ever refuse.

[Houndtime]

I think I should have mentioned this earlier; I also use the veterinarian's potato diet as well in the beginning of treating diarrhea.  One white potato, one sweet potato, a leek and a turnip.  I double so as to have enough for a couple of days interspersed with the plain chicken.  (You only need on turnip and leek as you only use a bit of it.)  Google it an check it out. 

Also you can make a slurry with slippery elm bark to coat his stomach before eating.  

[Time4ANap]

11 hours ago, cleptogrey said:

as per chicken and rice try cooking the chicken(easier if cut up into quarters, skin removed) in the rice.

a dish no dog can ever refuse.

You're right about that. I always make the rice or the pasta with chicken broth and usually have visitors in the kitchen while it;s cooking. 

[Nadine]

I'm a little late but our vets around here advise to cook Professor Moro's Carrot Soup. It is actually a recipe for children but works wonderfully on dogs, too. 

You just beed carrots and water 1:1 (1 kg carrots, 1 litre water for example) and cook it for at least 1,5 hours. After that mash the carrots and add water until you reach the same amount you had in the beginning. (I always cook little pueces of chicken breast with it for the taste). 

Feed in small amounts during the day.