Barking Mad Old Dog!

[chocolatehunny]

Hello everyone.

Im after some friendly advice here. I dont wish to be judged just advice please 😀

Eddie our beautiful 12 and half year old very docile and gentle greyhound is becoming harder as he ages. Hes always had some funny ways but hes started (about two months ago) to bark. This barking is attention barking though, like what a puppy would do. As soon as we leave the room, or when he wants his food (an hour earlier than he usually gets fed) and THE most annoying, 4am in a morning. Its not always 4am it can be anytime between this and 5.30. We have two round boys and as you can imagine as much as dearly love our furry friend (he was here before the kids) it is becoming quite a nuisance. He will bark and get louder until you go down to him.

The other day I read about Diphendramine (Benadryl) and I tried it (in the god awful hope it wouldnt kill him) and my goodness did he sleep and well. He was so out of it he didnt even want to get up the next morning. So we thought given his age we will allow him one every night. Only last night it didnt work (second night of taking it). So I am at a loss of what else to do really. Nothing has changed in his routine ever, he gets exercised, fed the same, at the same time, gets attention, etc etc.

Could this be dog dementia appearing? And if so what do we do to help him and in effect us?

 

Many Kind regards,

 

Lisa

 

Ps we dont feel we want to start taking him to the vets for loads of tests. One because of his age, two because of the financial side of it all (we just spent loads on him recently having 22 teeth removed) and three because he is a total nervous wreck at the vets. They said last time he is so anxious and his heart beats so hard and he pants so heavy that they can never get a good listen to his heart rhythm.

Ps I should probably also mention he does this retching cough at least once a day, randomly. I have wondered whether he has an underlying heart condition. But would this set him off barking in the way that he does?

[tbhounds]

To start you might want to try a small dose (start with 1mg) of melatonin before bedtime. That dose can be safely increased as needed.

[smurfette]

And you can leave a nightlight on and perhaps the radio. Sometimes they get anxious in the dark.

[chocolatehunny]

Thank you so much. That sounds great. Any ideas where I get the melatonin? I live in the UK.

[FiveRoooooers]

He will bark and get louder until you go down to him. Does this mean that he is sleeping away from his family? If so, can you bring him upstairs with you?

[macoduck]

Thank you so much. That sounds great. Any ideas where I get the melatonin? I live in the UK.

It's a non-prescription item. Any drug store or Walmart type store should have it.

[BatterseaBrindl]

He will bark and get louder until you go down to him. Does this mean that he is sleeping away from his family? If so, can you bring him upstairs with you?

 

This.

[greysmom]

There are treatments for canine cognitive disfunction (doggy Dementia) but you do need a vet to prescribe them. You might explore if your vet would make a house call, or if there are vet home services in your area.

 

Melatonin is a homeopathic treatment for sleeplessness in people. Most major drug stores or chemists should have it in stock. Perhaps one of our UK members will pop in and give you a name of a store on your side of the Atlantic!

[JohnF]

The situation in the UK is that Melatonin has no been classed as a prescription only drug for people over 55.

 

There is also 5HTP but Serotonin Syndrome has been linked to it in several cases.

 

Oatstraw tea, which you make yourself, is another possibility.

 

I think I'd ask a vet first though.

 

As others have already said, try letting him stay closer to his human pack for support and reassurance and provide a night light.

[chocolatehunny]

Yes he has always slept with our other dog Milo, away from us without any issues until now. They sleep in the dining room downstairs where they both have a really great orthopaedic bed each to sleep on. I will try the night light thank you. What is outstraw tea? Never heard of this.

Eddie wouldnt be able to get up the stairs nor down it anymore to sleep with us otherwise I would have let him. He doesnt manage steps anymore.

X

[Banjoman]

If he is barking because he wants food early in the morning could you give him a snack at bedtime so he doesn't feel hungry?

 

Is he barking because he needs to go out if his system isn't working so well now he is getting older?

 

a light left on at night and maybe a radio left on really quietly might help.

[3greytjoys]

Dogs bark as one of their few means of communication. This communication becomes even more important to try to understand and respond to their needs as they age.

 

A few normal geriatric possibilities:

• He might be losing some of his ability to control urine and/or bowel eliminations, but knows he should try not to mess in the house, so is trying to alert you verbally, the only way he can from downstairs. If not already, provide a very last minute potty outing at your bedtime.
• Perhaps he's hungry from stretching too many hours without food. A small bedtime snack (e.g., 1/3 cup kibble from his daily caloric intake) might help keep him from awakening early feeling too hungry or nauseous.
• His body temperature might be dropping to an uncomfortable level during that coldest part of the night/morning. Greyhound jammies or a blanket may help.
• Cloudy vision and/or lack of physical ease (e.g. struggling on hard surface floors) could be affecting his comfortable ability to access his bed/food/water bowls easily. Carpeted rooms or secure runner rugs are extremely important for Greyhounds, especially aging seniors.

 

His cough could be a number of different things that could be very important to mention to a vet, diagnosed easily, and potentially save his life.

You didn't happen to mention what time of day Eddie is coughing or if related to eating, drinking or exercising.

Just a few examples (of many):

Worm infestation (Depending on worm type, could be easily treated with cheap medication. Worst case scenario could become fatal if left untreated.)

Kennel cough

Laryngeal paralysis (Some symptoms include occasional coughing; change in sound of bark over time; raspy breathing -- especially in warm weather and/or during exercise, when happily excited, stressed (e.g. in vet's office), and/or may cough more while trying to eat dry foods, etc.)

 

Two of our Greyhounds had progressive laryngeal paralysis. LP is not uncommon in many breeds, but often goes undiagnosed and could become a life-threatening breathing crisis if guardians are unaware how to easily manage the dog's environment; meals; switching from collars to a harness; exercising during coolest times of day, etc. Our 15 year old hound's bark was very high pitched when she needed help. Years earlier, laryngeal paralysis made her bark much rougher, deeper and activated coughs, so she began using her higher pitched bark when she needed help.

 

Our hounds have always slept in an upstairs bedroom with us, but as each of the last four have aged into their teens (eldest 15.5 years old), a human has temporarily moved downstairs to help tend to their needs. They were taught at a young age to ring a bell on the door knob when they need to eliminate outside, but even that is not loud enough to awaken a soundly sleeping human upstairs. (Personally through decades, luckily none of my many dogs reaching into their teens have ever had dementia.)

[chocolatehunny]

I have wondered about LP but he had his teeth done in Novemeber. Would the vets not have noticed this under anaesthetic then?

His eyes are certainly clouding. But the vets checked them too and said theyre just old age cloudiness, nothing more.

When I walked him yesterday the sun was out but it was by no means hot and he struggled lots. His back end was very weak and he was slow and scraping his nails on the pavement and stumbling much more than usual and panting a lot. As soon as we got home and immediately flopped on his bed and was fine then but very tired.

Last night I left him a light on a dimmer so it was low lighting and he had a Benadryl around 10pm and slept very well and didnt wake and bark.

He gets fed around 7pm at night with a few treats in the day but hes welcome to eat his food anytime between 7pm and when we go to bed. Then we shut the kitchen door before we go to bed. In the morning he will go out to do his business and as soon as he comes in he will feast on the rest of his biscuits he left from the night before.

He looks at me like hes sad but I know this is a typical Greyhound look. Hes always done that a bit but hes losing his bounce if you get me. Understandable with old age I suppose.

 

Lisa

[chocolatehunny]

Ps the cough isnt related to anything particularly. He can lay on his bed for ages and suddenly do it.

As for his bark that has certainly changed. The only was I can describe it is that it is still very loud but it has a rough tone to it but it never makes him cough or gag. The coughing just starts from nothing. The coughing can get so bad when he has coughing fits that I think hes going to choke. Almost like hes trying to cough up a hair ball like a cat and hes gagging with it.

I de wormed then only a month ago so I am hoping it isnt rang but he does have a tendency to drink dirty water wherever he can find any.

Ps the cough isnt related to anything particularly. He can lay on his bed for ages and suddenly do it.

As for his bark that has certainly changed. The only was I can describe it is that it is still very loud but it has a rough tone to it but it never makes him cough or gag. The coughing just starts from nothing. The coughing can get so bad when he has coughing fits that I think hes going to choke. Almost like hes trying to cough up a hair ball like a cat and hes gagging with it.

I de wormed then only a month ago so I am hoping it isnt rang but he does have a tendency to drink dirty water wherever he can find any.

[3greytjoys]

I have wondered about LP but he had his teeth done in Novemeber. Would the vets not have noticed this under anaesthetic then?

When I walked him yesterday the sun was out but it was by no means hot and he struggled lots. His back end was very weak and he was slow and scraping his nails on the pavement and stumbling much more than usual and panting a lot. As soon as we got home and immediately flopped on his bed and was fine then but very tired.

He gets fed around 7pm at night with a few treats in the day but hes welcome to eat his food anytime between 7pm and when we go to bed. Then we shut the kitchen door before we go to bed. In the morning he will go out to do his business and as soon as he comes in he will feast on the rest of his biscuits he left from the night before.

 

Lisa

 

A vet likely would not have noticed laryngeal paralysis when doing a dental unless specifically examining for LP. LP can be diagnosed when a dog is under light anesthesia. Eddie's very involved dental with many extractions would have required deeper sedation, so the vet would have needed to view his breathing movements of the laryngeal cartilage folds very early in the anesthesia process.

 

Both of our LP hounds reacted similarly on walks as aging and LP progressed. LP has been linked to hind end weakness by progressing through the vegas nerve, but even our non-LP hounds have naturally shown weaker hind ends into their teens. Our LP hounds could not tolerate any walks in full sun. Their walks were limited to early morning or at/after dusk. Walking under mature shade trees in cool weather was an option. None of our Greyhounds (of any ages) have ever tolerated exercising comfortably in temperatures above 72 degrees Fahrenheit (22 Celsius). Our senior hounds' walk durations shorten dramatically as they age. If they can only pass 3 or 4 houses and return without damaging their paws/knuckles, etc., that's what we do. I carry along a canine hind end assist wrap during senior dog walks in case of an unexpected hind collapse. (Links below.)

 

Lumbosacral stenosis is seen in Greyhounds, but your description of Eddie's symptoms seem similar to LP, unless his cough is completely unrelated.

http://www.greythealth.com/lumbosacral.html

 

If Eddie eats one main meal per day, perhaps consider dividing it into a morning meal and evening meal. I assume biscuits are more like dog treats vs. a fully balanced meal.

(Our hounds usually eat 3 balanced meals per day.) Water should remain available 24/7, unless a vet prescribes otherwise.

 

Ps the cough isnt related to anything particularly. He can lay on his bed for ages and suddenly do it.

As for his bark that has certainly changed. The only was I can describe it is that it is still very loud but it has a rough tone to it but it never makes him cough or gag. The coughing just starts from nothing. The coughing can get so bad when he has coughing fits that I think hes going to choke. Almost like hes trying to cough up a hair ball like a cat and hes gagging with it.

I de wormed then only a month ago so I am hoping it isnt rang but he does have a tendency to drink dirty water wherever he can find any.

 

Our second hound's LP was geriatric onset. His symptoms were different enough from the other hound (who arrived into adoption with early-mid age LP) that I wondered if he had lung disease (deeply inhaled roughly when arising from rest, etc.) but X-rays were clear. Later, he had a breathing crisis in which LP was confirmed. He survived and was well managed for many years thereafter.

 

A video of Eddie coughing/gagging might help your vet determine a possible cause.

 

If needed, below are helpful physical assistance options.

Hind end assistance harness is for male dogs: https://www.walkaboutharnesses.com/collections/senior-dogs/products/airlift-one-back-harness

We have this hind end assistance harness for elder females: https://www.walkaboutharnesses.com/collections/senior-dogs/products/the-original-walkabout-back-end-harness

(Greyhound breed requires a custom order size.)

"Walk A Bout" also makes a soft neoprene belly wrap, which can help lift an elder dog into/out of a car if you don't have a dog ramp.

This source is located in USA. You may find similar soft medical assistance products in the UK.

 

Therapaws makes a veterinary medical product to help prevent hind leg knuckling (requires vet order):

A photo can be seen here: http://scoutshouse.com/product/thera-paw-dorsi-flex-assist/

 

Glad you're remaining alert to Eddie's changing needs. These wonderful Greyhounds deserve royal treatment as they age.

Edited March 28, 2018 by 3greytjoys

[chocolatehunny]

Thank you so much 3greytoys for the in depth reply. I appreciate that.

Eddie has had this cough a long time now, at least since he was around 7/8yrs from what I can remember. But its gotten much worse. Some days he will not do it at all. Other days he will do it quite severely. Which is what makes me think it may be LP. I just dont want him to suffocate to death or aspirate any food into his lungs because he can do it sometimes after eating or whilst eating.

The leg weakness I was always told is arthritis and always felt the vets were wrong since we tried various anti inflammatory tablets and nothing helped him.

If it were his heart is suspect after a walk he would continue to pant hard, which he doesnt, he just kind of collapses on his bed as if to say thank god for that. He is down to one 20minute walk a day now and even that he would probably be happy to go without.

I remember last summer he really struggled with the heat so I am dreading it this year. He likes to be near us too so he wont go and lay in the shade or go back inside when were out on the garden, so hes often laid on the full heat panting hard until he cant bare it any longer. Poor boy.

The feeding twice a day I have tried and he will mess in the house during the night. So thats not a great option.

Thank you for the web page links I will take a look but I think ultimately the best way forward given his age is to ensure I walk him only when it is cool and the sun is not out at all.

Are there any medicines to help treat LP? Did any of your Greys actually die from it? Im petrified when he does the gagging as it looks like hes about to leave me.

 

Lisa xx

[3greytjoys]

Doxepin is the only medication I've read that sometimes helps dogs in early stages of LP. Both of our hounds were in more advanced stages so it wouldn't have helped them. Both hounds were on medical orders to stop running as soon as they were diagnosed with LP. Prevention is key.

 

The hound that suffered the breathing crisis was not at home when it occurred. After he was on oxygen, we moved him to a familiar comfortable environment where he was able to lie down on thick bedding, offer water from his bowl, etc.

 

By the way, dry foods/treats are not recommended for LP dogs.

Dry kibble should be moistened with water shortly before feeding. Any leftover wet kibble must be refrigerated or discarded within 30 minutes to help prevent bacteria growth.

 

Neither hound died of an LP breathing crisis, but one hound choked on dog food and his body became paralyzed while choking. He survived the choking but never regained control of his body.

 

Become familiar with your hound's natural healthy (likely pink) gum color so you can check it if he starts having trouble breathing. If gums are deep red, purple, blue or grayish, take him to an emergency vet ASAP. LP dogs can go into hyperthermia (overheating) if panting very, very heavily and excessively. Heavy panting swells the throat which further restricts remaining airway space.

 

Perhaps a portable metal ex-pen could be set up in full shade with a bowl of water while you're all outside in the garden together. If so, watch Eddie closely to ensure the sun doesn't rotate into the ex-pen. A brief water rinse starting with legs helps cool them if their temperature rises too much while outside in summer.

[chocolatehunny]

Thank you.

His kibble is always moistened. I will discard any not used in future.

I will do that in summer no problem.

He seems fine on a daily basis in terms of gum colour but I have noticed when hes pantinf his gums are very pale almost white.

I wonder if the Doxepin May help him then. But this requires an actual diagnoses under anaesthetic again doesnt it? And Im not prepared to put him under again.

 

Lisa x

[NeylasMom]

If I'm not mistaken, you can try a trial of Doxepin to see if his symptoms improve if you don't want to put him through the test.

 

I would also consider trying Gabapentin to see if it helps with his hind end weakness. Smaller more frequent doses are generally better than larger doses spaced further apart. You might start with 100 mg twice a day and go from there.

 

I am not sure I understood - you said you close off the kitchen at night and in the morning he will feast on the rest of his biscuits, meaning his food is left out overnight and he finishes it in the morning? It sounds like two meals a day plus a bedtime snack might help regulate hunger better if that's part of what's going on.

[chocolatehunny]

Yes I will consider those then thank you.

Im hoping they are drugs we can get here in the UK.

 

I do yes purely because he is a bit of a scavenger and not because hes hungry (my dogs are far from starved believe me). But he will eat things in the garden, compost, mud, anything gross and in the kitchen he now knows how to open the bin lid and hes greay at spreading the contents all over the place (you really wouldnt think hes an old man lol).

Both often eat scraps that the baby like throw from his highchair too 🤣🙈

Perhaps I should try two meals a day then. Thank you will give anything a try. Just a little worried that with a bigger morning meal he may wake us in the night or make a mess like he used to do when we fed him in a morning.

 

Lisa x

[NeylasMom]

I think it's worth trying again. I don't understand why a morning meal would make him unable to hold it overnight if he has ample opportunities to relief himself throughout the day and evening.

[chocolatehunny]

He always has opportunity to relieve himself. There is always some body at home. He never goes without anything!

Im simply talking from past experience. When we used to feed him in the morning he would poo in the house every night without any warning. He would always get chance to relieve himself just before we went to bed between 2200 and 2300hrs but he still did it. We never knew why. Only thing I could put it down to at the time is that I read some where it takes 16hours to digest the food a dog eats so its possible he needed to go in the middle of the night because of this.

[cleptogrey]

SENILIFE is a newish product that you might want to look into. It takes around 2 weeks to kick in. It might be worth a try. My vet recommendation led us to it. It works for some dogs.

 

It sounds like he has established some bad habit(s).

Edited April 2, 2018 by cleptogrey

[chocolatehunny]

Thank you Ill have a look online now about it.

 

The Benadryl at night (in UK its Nytol) seems to be working for now thankfully.

 

X