Violet's In Pain - I Think Her Back :(

[NeylasMom]

Some of you may remember my earlier posts about Violet's ongoing ortho issues (last post here). This started out with shoulder lameness at Dewey in October. That improved quickly with PT, then we dealt with a lot of muscle spasming behind her shoulders and shoulder blades, but PT helped her work through it and we were given the green light for underwater treadmill. Then she started having issues with what seemed like her back left iliopsoas muscle so we stopped the treadmill and have just been continuing with PT and the chiro. She seemed to be doing well overall with slight ups and downs so we were spacing out the visits, then last night happened.

 

She got into a really raucous play session with Skye. I put the kabosh on it quickly. She was a little lame afterward - the stiff hind end we've been seeing and her groin/inner leg muscles were really spasmy so I did some stretching and massage and took her for a potty walk. She seemed sore, but okay. She ate and went to sleep in my bed for the evening. Around midnight I hear her cry out and go in to find her standing, not moving on my bed. I managed to get her down and then it was yelping/crying out in pain every time she laid down, got up, with each step down to go outside to potty (did I mention we have 3 flights? Heartbreaking). You could see her wanting to shake, but couldn't do it. She was basically afraid to move because it would be painful. I gave her 200 mg of Gabapentin and 50 mg of Tramadol and she did sleep through the night, changing position one time without crying out.

 

This morning she was a tiny bit better, got a little more of a shake before she stopped. Much less yelping. But still clearly very uncomfortable. Doesn't want to squat to pee, going down the stairs is rough, coming back up is much better but she still takes them very gingerly. Gave another dose of both meds and she is sound asleep now.

 

We have an appt to see the neurologist tomorrow as that was the soonest they could get her in and we're waiting on her orthopedist to call back to discuss meds in the interim.

 

Posting all of this just to see if this sounds familiar to anyone? I'm thinking it's very likely at this point that there has been some underlying back/spine issue that all of the lameness and muscle spasming we were seeing were symptoms of and that it somehow just got really aggravated. We've been doing a lot more walking/hiking lately and the chiro was here on Thursday (and Violet yelped for the first time in a while at the sensitive spot behind her shoulder blades) so not sure if either of those had already aggravated it and then the wild play just pushed it over the edge? I don't think it's her neck as she will pick up her head to look at me or take treats and doesn't seem particularly afraid to do that. I'm thinking maybe some sort of disc issue?

 

Anyway, if anyone has any insight, anything to know or ask to be prepared for our visit tomorrow, or just some good thoughts to spare for my girl, we'd appreciate them. I know they're going to want to do an MRI, but because of her anesthesia issues we won't be doing it tomorrow. So I'll see what he says and if he feels it's really important, I'll have to take her back for it with special arrangements made to minimize the risk from the anesthesia. Hate the thought of doing that.

[schultzlc]

While I have no insight, I wanted to send my good thoughts to your Violet.

[greysmom]

Poor Violet!! No help, but I can send telepathic hugs for both of you!

 

Maybe a muscle relaxer would help her??

[NeylasMom]

Poor Violet!! No help, but I can send telepathic hugs for both of you!

 

Maybe a muscle relaxer would help her??

Thanks. She's already on one. She's been on Robaxin, 500 mg 2x/day since early on. I think I can safely add a 3rd dose, but I don't want to do too much messing with meds until I hear from the vet. I'll ask him about giving extra though when he calls, good idea.

[XTRAWLD]

I think you need the MRI. Sounds like maybe a neck issue/nerves.... if she's rough going down the stairs, sounds like it's pressure from her movements. Does she jump down the last 2 steps at all? Crying out isn't a good indicator either. Gaba should be working, perhaps though it's not enough and you should give her another 100mg? Ryder is on 300mg every 12 hours for a 75lb pup.

[Remolacha]

That sort of thing is so difficult, when you know they are in pain but aren't sure what to do. It doesn't sound like any of the mobility issues I've dealt with.

[Houndtime]

Good thoughts for your girl.

[tbhounds]

Usually when it's painful to go down the stairs it's neck-up the stairs it's the back. Have you tried to introduce an nsaid?

[macoduck]

Poor Violet.

 

Regarding the MRI, has she had anesthesia issues previously?

[NeylasMom]

Usually when it's painful to go down the stairs it's neck-up the stairs it's the back. Have you tried to introduce an nsaid?

Not yet. She hasn't been in enough pain previously to warrant it though I started her on Curcumin a few weeks ago when we were still thinking it was an ilio issue. I have nsaids here, bit don't want to give without talking to the vet in case they want to use a different one or may be do steroids.

 

I did wonder about the neck versus back, but I really think it has to be back. Her hind end is super stiff and she's having trouble squatting to pee. I wonder if its not the spot right behind her shoulder blades where she's had all of the spasming but it rrally seems to present at least more toward her back end. I have some video of her walking this morning that I can try to post.

 

Poor Violet.

 

Regarding the MRI, has she had anesthesia issues previously?

Yes, that's the issue. If they feel strongly that she needs it and that what we uncover might change our course of treatment then we will do it, but it won't be tomorrow. We have a plan for reducing stress and preventing bleeding that at least worked well for her last dental so we'll have to work out a plan and do it at a later date. Edited April 24, 2017 by NeylasMom

[seeh2o]

Doodles was having problems with muscle spasms in her back after her FCE, my vet put her on Organically Bound Minerals by Standard Process. She never had another back spasm. Just a thought. Sending good thoughts to your girl.

Edited April 24, 2017 by seeh2o

[NeylasMom]

So here's video of her this morning. The Gabapentin had to be wearing off by then as it was just before I gave her the morning dose. Looking at this now I can see her swinging her head and bending her neck pretty freely.

 

 

Gah, it breaks my heart just to watch the video. She's been resting comfortably since her last dose of meds. I'm hoping the PM walk goes a bit better. Considering carrying her down the stairs, but I'm afraid I might scare her or hurt her more.

Doodles was having problems with muscle spasms in her back after her FCE, my vet put her on Organically Bound Minerals by Standard Process. She never had another back spasm. Just a thought. Sending good thoughts to your girl.

Thanks. Her PT had suggested Magnesium in particular along that line of thinking, but the chiro said she wouldn't go that route, but suggested acupuncture and talking to my vet about chinese meds so I made an appt for that for this Thursday, which I'm guessing is out now. I like the SP products so I'll keep that in mind.

[macoduck]

Maybe it was the angle of the video but her back end looked kinda hunched up. Was that new or related to what you've seen before?

[NeylasMom]

Maybe it was the angle of the video but her back end looked kinda hunched up. Was that new or related to what you've seen before?

Yeah, it is, and its specific to her being in pain right now. She doesnt stand that way, I think it was just making her feel better to walk like that?

 

In the past, the worst we've seen is what I was calling hind end stiffness. Basically a shortened stride in her back legs, especially at slower paces. You pretty much wouldn't notice it when she moved a bit faster, though you'd sometimes see a hop as she switched gears. We were seeing that a while ago as she was recovering from what we thought was the shoulder injury, when she was having all of the muscle spasming up near her shoulders. Then she was doing much better and we did underwater treadmill for a while, then what we thought was the ilio thing started and on sore days she might have that slightly off gait, but at that point we were assuming it was just the ilio being tight. And she would always recover really quickly before this.

[turbotaina]

The pain going downwards makes me think shoulder/neck. Imagine walking down stairs on all fours - your weight is being pushed towards the front. Going upstairs, it's primarily the hind end that is the motor. It's tough seeing her so uncomfortable She may be tucking downwards to try to use her rear legs as motor at the walk, taking pressure off her front end. Wonder if she's got a disc issue up in the thoracic vertebrae? Hope you can get some answers tomorrow

[NeylasMom]

Yeah, that's my current thinking Mer though when you see the back end so off its confusing. But I just took her out again and we can add pain when she tries to sniff the ground to the list. She gets about 1/2-2/3 of the way and whimpers every time. Seems to support what you're saying as well. She did manage to get 4 pees in!

 

I don't think the meds are doing much more than take the edge off. I think that would also support a disc issue, maybe? Because there would be inflammation?

 

The stupid thing is I kept asking about a disc issue in the first few months of this, but everyone seemed to discourage that idea. By the time they actually recommended Neuro she had been on Gaba for 3 wks with no noticeable change. I asked them to take the x-rays of her spine anyway and then we could decide whether she needed Neuro or could just continue with Dr Dycus and they refused to take them without the consult. I should have just done it I guess, but I didn't think we would find anything and they'd just say get an MRI, which I wouldnt habe done at the time because she wasn't in pain.

 

Anyway, we'll just see what tomorrow brings. Can't come soon enough. Or at least the call from the vet so I know if I can give her more/other meds. Really hate seeing her like this.

Edited April 24, 2017 by NeylasMom

[tbhounds]

Watched the video-spine issues. I would do the MRI

[greysmom]

IVDD??

[krissy]

IVDD??

 

This was my first thought too.

[XTRAWLD]

Agreed. boy she looks so stiff... gentle scritches.

[NeylasMom]

She's slightly improved from this morning. I got some real tail wags after going out for a few hours and she looked like she was thinking about being playful or trotting around, which I quickly put the kabosh on, but overall she's still not great. I think she really needs an anti-inflammatory but of course the vet never called me, which is so infuriating.

[Walliered]

I used Dr. Jason King in Savannah for both of my hounds with neck/back issues. He is the best Neuro I know. His number is: 912- 662-7544

[a_daerr]

Going through the same thing with Truman. He got his IVDD dx last week following an MRI.
She looks really hunched in that video.

[NeylasMom]

I just took them out for the last time for the night and she is definitely better than this morning. She didn't seem particularly hesitant to squat to pee, pooping it took her a bit longer to feel comfortable to do it, but she went without issue.

 

She was also motoring compared to this morning, she even trotted a bit! Still not able to fully shake and obviously still uncomfortable, but I haven't heard her yelp since this afternoon so this is significant improvement, especially given that it has been almost 12 hrs since her last dose of meds.

 

I don't know if she would improve like this without nsaids or steroids if it were IVDD? Either way I'm feeling more optimistic.

 

Our appt tomorrow is at 12:30. They said no meds after 10 tonight, presumably because he wants to see her without meds masking symptoms. Has anyone else been told this? I was going to ask the ortho when he called, but of course he never did. I'll see how she is in the morning, but I'm hesitant to skip them. I'm definitely giving the Robaxin necause she's been on that for months. Thinking provided she hasn't regressed I will give the Gabapentin, but not the Tramadol. The Gaba helps her with stress with the visit anyway.

Edited April 25, 2017 by NeylasMom

[smurfette]

Talk to your vet about pt. When he thinks it is okay I would invest in a regular therapy. I take my boys every 4 weeks when the have no issues just for prevention. I have seen a severe limping galgo with stiffened neck muscles and he just had a blockade in his toe joints. But his owner and his vet never thought about that.

For nerve issues I put St. Johns Wort on my boys diet and hypericum droplets in their water (it is the same plant). Hypericum is known to help a great deal with nerves pain and even to repair nerve damages.

Andy had severe tremors in his hint legs. He was shaking like a leave and walked really stiffly and obviously in pain. He got pain meds in the beginning because trying to avoid certainly movements results in even more stiffed muscles. We started on pt and hypericum and today he is pain-free and on no medication.