Chase Acting Weird

[Tracey]

Quick background. A year ago (now) 11 year old Chase was diagnosed with megaesophagus. A month ago he was diagnosed as hypothyroid and two days later had a major cardiac episode and the following week was diagnosed with dilated cardiomyopathy, a severe case.

 

He is now on a million meds. All meds are ground up and administered by syringe (mixed with sugar water) because he refuses to take them in food and the last time I tried to force them down his throat it became apparent that if I kept this up I was going to get bitten.

 

Soloxine

Vetmedin

Diltiazem

Benazepril

Mirtazapine

Lasix

Spironolactone

Flagyl (temporarily for diarrhea)

Endosorb (also temporarily for diarrhea)

Pepcid

Liquid B12

 

Since Thursday Chase has been acting weird. He's had these spells where he stands in the corner, or tries to get behind or under things, especially places where he would usually never go. He sometimes looks like he's intentionally banging into walls or cupboards with his side. And he's been extra clingy. He's currently lying in a corner next to me. It's difficult to describe but it's very strange. He also has panting spells, but he seems stressed, not like he can't breathe. The panting isn't anything like it was. He reminds me of Reggie, who's afraid of fireworks. It was the worst on Thursday. He refused to lie down for over three hours.

Despite this, he's eating well, he's getting up and walking around well. Sometimes he seems fine, but then he has periods throughout the day and night like I described above. It almost seems like some videos I've seen of old dog syndrome, but I wouldn't think he could develop that overnight and he's always been very sharp.

I wonder if it could be a side effect from any meds he's on?

I haven't pinpointed a definite cause and effect, but it seems like it may be his stomach bothering him. I've given him Gas X and it does seem to help.

My vet and I are emailing back and forth. She thought maybe he was standing because of discomfort from his enlarged heart, but I've seen him do that early on and this doesn't look the same.

Any thoughts at all?

Edited June 26, 2016 by Tracey

[XTRAWLD]

First thing that came to mind is something going on cognitively. The desire to stand in a corner or get under things would be concerning to me. I'm not sure what med might cause this, but any side effects on any of them that might trigger a, for lack of a better term, "mental issue"? But if he's been on these meds for a few weeks without any ill effects, might be something else then. If he just started a new med and then stood in a corner, it's a closer association to a side effect.

 

If he had a major cardiac episode not to long ago, is it possible he might go into a seizure and this is a sign?

 

Mirtazapine, Flagyl and Pepcid are the only things in your list I'm familiar with and I don't think it's any of those. Is he on the Mirtz because of a lack of appetite? I wonder because you say he's eating readily.

Edited June 26, 2016 by XTRAWLD

[Batmom]

How long has he been on the flagyl? It can -- rarely -- cause some neuro effects. One of mine would get kind of crabby and twitchy on it; we used Tylan instead.

 

Hugs and hopes you can get it figured out.

[DesiRayMom]

With all those meds, for all those conditions, I'd be surprised if it weren't the combination of all that stuff that's making him feel off.

All that stuff trying to change his physiology seems like it would be bound to affect his mental state......I think it would mine.

I know you love him beyond telling, and are doing everything in the world you can for him. Love him like there's no tomorrow,

and I hope things get better.

[Tracey]

How long has he been on the flagyl? It can -- rarely -- cause some neuro effects. One of mine would get kind of crabby and twitchy on it; we used Tylan instead.

 

Hugs and hopes you can get it figured out.

Had to do some figuring because I picked the flagyl up on Thursday the 16th. I only gave it through Saturday because vet said to stop when he was better. He had a bad day Sunday with fluid retention and excessive panting and up to then I'd not been giving lasix because it had seemed hard on him so vet ok'ed just giving spironolactone. But I was concerned that because of the anti diarrheal medicines he was retaining extra water so I didn't give him them on Sunday. But I started him on the lasix again and as far as I could tell, he tolerated it well. Then Wednesday I noticed he had the runs again so I started the flagyl and endosorb again. Thursday morning he started with the weird episodes. I think I will lay off the flagyl and see what happens. If he gets the runs again I'll just give him the endosorb. Edited June 26, 2016 by Tracey

[Tracey]

First thing that came to mind is something going on cognitively. The desire to stand in a corner or get under things would be concerning to me. I'm not sure what med might cause this, but any side effects on any of them that might trigger a, for lack of a better term, "mental issue"? But if he's been on these meds for a few weeks without any ill effects, might be something else then. If he just started a new med and then stood in a corner, it's a closer association to a side effect.

 

If he had a major cardiac episode not to long ago, is it possible he might go into a seizure and this is a sign?

 

Mirtazapine, Flagyl and Pepcid are the only things in your list I'm familiar with and I don't think it's any of those. Is he on the Mirtz because of a lack of appetite? I wonder because you say he's eating readily.

The more I try to piece this together the more I am convinced his gut is jacked up. Gas X does seem to help. Once it kicks in and he eats he seems normal.

 

Yes, the Mirtazapine is for appetite. He was 85 and quickly went down to 70. He is barely eating enough. I am afraid to take him off it.

[robinw]

Poor Chase. Poor you.

[cleptogrey]

I am confused,isn't mega esophagus something that they are born with and they don't develop?

 

What part of the country are you in?:any vet schools that you might be able to get a second opinion from since there are so many other things he is also being treated for?

 

Petite Mal seizures can almost be unnoticeable, but that's not the answer. You are working with a long list of drugs. I would look for a second opinion. Best of luck this has to be most frightening.

[Houndtime]

That's a lot of stuff and alone that could cause a reaction. You can check side effects of each drug, on line.

 

I had a dog that problems with the flagyl. It can cause dizziness, hallucinations, confusion and other symptoms that your boy seems to be experiencing. Maybe he shouldn't take all the meds at the same time. Ask your vet how you can separate them out.

 

I hope he feels better.

[45MPHK9]

He's had these spells where he stands in the corner, or tries to get behind or under things, especially places where he would usually never go.

 

He refused to lie down for over three hours.

 

Any thoughts at all?

These two sentences really stood out to me. These were two very prominent symptoms we saw with Murray just before he was diagnosed with his brain tumor. He became increasingly uncoordinated and confused as the days went by. He was just past his 12th birthday when an MRI confirmed that a tumor was growing on his pituitary gland. I don't want to scare you, but these symptoms were definitely present in Murray's case. I would consult a neurologist ASAP. I wish we had skipped our regular vet's attempts at ruling out other things and taken Murray to the neuro vet sooner.

 

Murray also experienced inappetence and lost quite a bit of weight in a short time.

 

I hope this isn't the case with Chase. I'll look for updates here on your baby.

Edited June 26, 2016 by 45MPHK9

[Remolacha]

It must be very distressing for you, trying to figure out what's going on! With that long list of meds, pinpointing what's causing the side effects (if that is the cause) is very tricky. None of my dogs has ever had a problem with flagyl, but I had it prescribed once for myself, and it caused dizziness, disorientation, and hallucinations. I definitely would have wanted to crawl under the table if I hadn't realized what was going on and stopped taking it.

 

Good luck

[XTRAWLD]

These two sentences really stood out to me. These were two very prominent symptoms we saw with Murray just before he was diagnosed with his brain tumor. He became increasingly uncoordinated and confused as the days went by. He was just past his 12th birthday when an MRI confirmed that a tumor was growing on his pituitary gland. I don't want to scare you, but these symptoms were definitely present in Murray's case. I would consult a neurologist ASAP. I wish we had skipped our regular vet's attempts at ruling out other things and taken Murray to the neuro vet sooner.

 

Murray also experienced inappetence and lost quite a bit of weight in a short time.

 

I hope this isn't the case with Chase. I'll look for updates here on your baby.

I second this. You put the explanation together very well and you obviously have first hand knowledge, I couldn't remember who it was that had a similar sort of reaction....but now I do.

[Tracey]

These two sentences really stood out to me. These were two very prominent symptoms we saw with Murray just before he was diagnosed with his brain tumor. He became increasingly uncoordinated and confused as the days went by. He was just past his 12th birthday when an MRI confirmed that a tumor was growing on his pituitary gland. I don't want to scare you, but these symptoms were definitely present in Murray's case. I would consult a neurologist ASAP. I wish we had skipped our regular vet's attempts at ruling out other things and taken Murray to the neuro vet sooner.

Murray also experienced inappetence and lost quite a bit of weight in a short time.

I hope this isn't the case with Chase. I'll look for updates here on your baby.

Don't worry; you're not scaring me. I have been trolling the Internet for answers and have watched videos of dogs with brain tumors and dementia. I'm not ruling anything out but he does seem to stop the symptoms after I give him Gas X, which brings me back to something seriously upsetting his gut. Given the timing, I am eliminating the flagyl and I'll take it from there.

 

A neuro consult isn't really in the cards, unfortunately. After Rufus had a stroke last year the vet wanted us to take him to the closest neurologist to see if it was a brain tumor. It was in Phoenix and was going to cost about $4000, so.that's not really an option.

[Tracey]

I am confused,isn't mega esophagus something that they are born with and they don't develop?

What part of the country are you in?:any vet schools that you might be able to get a second opinion from since there are so many other things he is also being treated for?

Petite Mal seizures can almost be unnoticeable, but that's not the answer. You are working with a long list of drugs. I would look for a second opinion. Best of luck this has to be most frightening.

No, actually many things can cause megaesophagus. Some are born with it. Sometimes it's idiopathic. Other causes include myasthenia gravis and addison's disease. In Chase's case, it turned out to be hypothyroidism. We tested him for addison's which was negative. We actually switched vets and I asked her to check him for myasthenia gravis based on some other symptoms he was having. She wanted to check his thyroid. I hadn't bothered up to this point because I had heard repeatedly that Greyhounds are almost never hypothyroid. We actually did a consult with Dr. Couto after the thyroid results came in and he agreed with the diagnosis and said Chase is only the 4th truly hypothyroid Greyhound he's seen in his entire career.

 

Actually, I'd be celebrating harder were it not for Chase's heart issues, but since going on soloxine Chase's megaesophagus has actually greatly improved. He can now eat pretty much anything and I no longer have to hold him upright for 40 minutes after every meal. And unlike before he can pretty much have as much water as he wants and doesn't throw up. The results have been miraculous, really.

[NeylasMom]

I think the stomach upset is a possibility. Neyla went through a period where she would wake up in the middle of the night and act really strange. Almost like she had seen a ghost. She would pant and pace and have a sort of glazed over look in her eyes. I started taking her out - sometimes she'd poop, sometimes she'd just pee, but she'd often seem better after we came back in. My vet recommended gas-x, but I can't remember now whether I thought it helped. There's a thread in this forum about it that you might be able to find. In any event, point being, tummy troubles can cause some strange behaviors so hoping that's all this is.

[Busderpuddle]

I know that Flagyl can cause pretty severe stomach upset in humans, so wonder if maybe he is experiencing a lot of stomach pain and cramping from that ? No other ideas, but hope you can get to the bottom of this and your guy feels better soon.

[FiveRoooooers]

For diarrhea I give Slippery Elm. You can get powder at the health food store and mix up a batch or pick up capsules, which I find much easier. I know people who take SE nightly and swear that it helps their IBS and it's become my go-to at the first sign of the dogs having diarrhea.

I'm sorry your good boy is having so much trouble

[XTRAWLD]

For diarrhea I give Slippery Elm. You can get powder at the health food store and mix up a batch or pick up capsules, which I find much easier. I know people who take SE nightly and swear that it helps their IBS and it's become my go-to at the first sign of the dogs having diarrhea.

I'm sorry your good boy is having so much trouble

It's my go too as well, however you can't administer meds with it. I usually mix SE in with breakfast or dinner, so if meds have to be given with a meal, it's a little limiting. You can certainly space out the meds from SE however - since SE coats the innards, absorption of the med is difficult.

[Tracey]

For diarrhea I give Slippery Elm. You can get powder at the health food store and mix up a batch or pick up capsules, which I find much easier. I know people who take SE nightly and swear that it helps their IBS and it's become my go-to at the first sign of the dogs having diarrhea.

I'm sorry your good boy is having so much trouble

When Chase's megaesophagus was acting up and he wasn't on meds I was giving him slippery elm tea, which he quite enjoyed. Because he is on so many meds now, some 3 times a day, I stopped giving it because of the absorption issue and I wasn't sure how long I had to wait between them.

[Tracey]

Here's a bit of an update. He was fine for about 12 hours. Then I gave him these:

 

Soloxine

Vetmedin

Diltiazem

Benazepril

Lasix

Spironolactone

And it started up again with the restlessness, panting, trying to get under things. My best guess is something is seriously upsetting his stomach. Or maybe all of it. The Vetmedin and the Soloxine are chewable but the rest aren't supposed to be and I've been grinding them up and giving them in liquid because he won't take them any other way. I wonder if that is part of it? The vet ok'ed the method and it was fine for a while.

I gave him a Pepcid and a Gas X about 45 minutes ago. I'm waiting to see if they help. If they do, I'll probably ask the vet for suggestions for anything better than those. If they don't help, at least I'm narrowing it down to SOMETHING with the meds.

[Tracey]

An hour after the Pepcid and Gas X he's good. DH offered him some chicken and he ate it and wanted more.

[robinw]

That's good news! You can fix this

[Remolacha]

Pretty clear then that one or more of the meds is upsetting him. If it can be fixed with a Pepcid and Gas X it should be manageable, that's a relief!

[FiveRoooooers]

Agree that the timing of giving slippery elm with Chase's other meds could be tricky, I just offered that as a consideration vs the other anti-diarrhetics. It's encouraging that he felt better after the Pepcid and Gas-X. Is it possible to give those before he gets his slurry? I haven't had to use all of what Chase is getting so I don't know.

Continued good thoughts for you guys.

[Tracey]

I spoke too soon. He's as bad as he's been since this started Thursday. Trying to get under and behind things and getting stuck, walking in circles, licking his lips, panting, not drinking water when usually he drinks a ton. He is not himself at all. We're going to have to take him in in the morning. I don't know how he went downhill so quickly.