kudzu Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 Can you tell me more about Amicar? the whats and whys of it? (sorry, i'm feeling very uneducated and just plain stupid about all of this) As 4My2Greys notes, Amicar helps reduce the bleeding risk to which some Greys are prone. For some Greys it really isn't optional, it's vital. For some others it can be a huge benefit. You should not feel sorry nor are you stupid. These situations are so complicated and breed tendencies can only make it worse. It's difficult for everyone. Not sure anyone at this point could tell you the chances of recovery. I totally understand the money worries factoring into this. Have been there myself. Even when trying to not base decisions on the expense, the money issues at an extra level of worry. When it means going into deep debt... it's truly an added misery and impossible not to bear in mind when deciding. I'm so sorry for all this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kudzu Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 Could remember that Amicar is aminocaproic acid. Also, remembered the bleeding issue with some Greys wasn't related to an inability to clot but more of an ability for the clotting to remain. Just couldn't remember the specifics or why Amicar works. Had to look it up again. The clots can form but break down, fibrinolysis, too fast so the clotting is not sufficient. Amicar is an antifibrinolytic that slows the break down of the clots. Greys are not the only breed with the problem but do seem more prone to it. http://www.vet.ohio-state.edu/assets/pdf/hospital/bloodBank/wellness/newsletters/2009/ghwpNewsletterSummer2009.pdf This article has what seems to me to be a very good explanation. We always hear about Amicar but this article mentions some other possible medications. Not sure if those others are used in vet med. Either ways, it's a good read: http://www.mspca.org/vet-services/angell-boston/emergency/anti-fibrinolytic-medications.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest babyphoenix Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 Trying one more time. 2 failed reply attempts Just finished visit with phoenix and spoke with day vet. Day vet is much more optimistic and talking of him going home within 24hrs. He thinks incision looks okay and isn't concerned about it. He's backing off on pain meds a touch to see if we can get him a little less sedate. Also moving him over to sotalol in preparation for going home. Phoenix was up to pee and drank some water but regurgitated it. But they're encouraged by the fact that he wants the water. He'd not been interested in food or water previously. So. I'm cautiously optimistic. Doc seemed confident in our path and where we're at now. Thank you for all your thoughts and advice. I remain indebted to this place. You guys always come through in difficult situations. We're definitely not out of the woods yet. So any thoughts you might have in what to expect or watch for if//when/as we go home, I'm all ears. You guys are really the best. THank you thank you thank you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4My2Greys Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 Kudzu explained it much better than I did and she is rigbt you shouldn't feel bad about not knowing everything there is to know. I was in a hurry when I responded earlier, but did not mean to imply it was something you should have known. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Remolacha Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 Remember that he has been through quite a lot, and especially at his age he will be a little slower to recover. Hopefully he will start to show some interest in food and can come home. My Molly had her spleen removed at 11 1/2, although there was no torsion (tumor removal). Her first 2-3 days were rough, lots of bleeding, but she came home on Wed, after surgery on Monday, recovered well, although it took several more days for the edema in her legs & feet to go down. hoping he makes a complete recovery! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest babyphoenix Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 Kudzu explained it much better than I did and she is rigbt you shouldn't feel bad about not knowing everything there is to know. I was in a hurry when I responded earlier, but did not mean to imply it was something you should have known. oh no 4My2Greys, i didn't think you were implying that at all I'm just always amazed at the amount of info people on this board have and know about meds and dosages and everything. I'm always trying to make sure I'm taking in all the info that the vet is telling me that actual med names and dosages never really even enter my radar. thank you so much for your replies! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carronstar Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 Keeping you and Phoenix in my thoughts and prayers. I went through a very similar experience a few years ago. The thread is here. It was a rough few days but my girl did well and the nasty tumor was B9. I received some wonderful advice from people on here, all of which I followed. I hope it helps you to see it, and to know that 3 years down the road (minus the recent bicep tendinitis which is freaking me out) she is doing very well. They did warn me at the time that PLN could be an issue in the future, and that did come true but we are managing that beautifully. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest babyphoenix Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 Keeping you and Phoenix in my thoughts and prayers. I went through a very similar experience a few years ago. The thread is here. It was a rough few days but my girl did well and the nasty tumor was B9. I received some wonderful advice from people on here, all of which I followed. I hope it helps you to see it, and to know that 3 years down the road (minus the recent bicep tendinitis which is freaking me out) she is doing very well. They did warn me at the time that PLN could be an issue in the future, and that did come true but we are managing that beautifully. thank you for the link carronstar! good to have an idea of what may be ahead of us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silverfish Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 Sid was very poorly for about a week after his splenectomy. He wasn't interested in food or drink for the couple of days. I had to syringe water into him by mouth, and then the first thing he'd drink and keep down was home-made low-sodium chicken broth (basically I just pressure cooked some chicken carcases in a pint or two of water and gave him the liquid to drink, warm). You may find that Phoenix will drink something like that, with a little flavour, rather than just plain water. It also has a little bit of nutrition in it, too.Heavy duty painkillers will usually reduce appetite and make them sleepy and disinclined to move much. Sid was on Vetergesic (buprenorphine) which is an opioid. He doesn't do well with it, but the vet thought it was the best pain relief for him and insisted he have it, and he didn't really eat or brighten up until he was off that and onto something lighter. He is hampered by being a tripod, so we had additional mobility problems, but basically his recovery was difficult due to blood loss, pain, and the side effects of painkillers. The good news is that he recovered fully. Looking at him in the first few days after his surgery I couldn't imagine every having 'my' Sid back, and couldn't stop crying, but we DID get him back, and the change from poorly patient to rapid recovery was really quite sudden. One day he was very much 'off his legs' and feeling crappy, the next he had a bit of sparkle back in his eyes and it was smooth sailing from there on. Fingers crossed for Phoenix that it's the same for him! Quote The plural of anecdote is not dataBrambleberry Greyhounds My Etsy Shop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest babyphoenix Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 (edited) okay so I have more questions for you guys. They've not had great luck with Phoenix being able to keep food down so far. Water and food, small bits hand fed or syringed, hasn't stayed down yet. Doc is considering NG tube this evening if they're unable to keep anything down. Historically, Phoenix is never a great eater when we're away. Is it at all reasonable to think that if he were home we might have more luck? Or am I tempting more problems? Do they need to have him keeping down food before they'll clear him to go home? I don't want to rush it at all, but every hour he's there is another hour that buries me deeper financially. We're cobbling together as best we can but I don't want to go along with something that we could conceivably manage at home. Edited October 13, 2014 by babyphoenix Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silverfish Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 I'd normally say bring him home as soon as you can, but if he's vomiting, it's a bit different. It's not just that he's not eating, but something is upsetting his stomach. Can you ask the vet if it's worth trying him on a different painkiller? Fentanyl can cause nausea and vomiting. I'd also let them know that you're concerned at the bill racking up, while at the same time you want to do all that's necessary for Phoenix. They shouldn't be unsympathetic to that. Most people can't find a couple of thousand dollars at a moment's notice. On balance, I think I'd talk it through with the vet and ask if you can try bringing him home with a different painkiller, and see if he does better - you can always take him back in if necessary, but many, many greyhounds do very much better at home. They wanted Sid to come home as soon as possible for that reason. Quote The plural of anecdote is not dataBrambleberry Greyhounds My Etsy Shop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest babyphoenix Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 I'd normally say bring him home as soon as you can, but if he's vomiting, it's a bit different. It's not just that he's not eating, but something is upsetting his stomach. Can you ask the vet if it's worth trying him on a different painkiller? Fentanyl can cause nausea and vomiting. I'd also let them know that you're concerned at the bill racking up, while at the same time you want to do all that's necessary for Phoenix. They shouldn't be unsympathetic to that. Most people can't find a couple of thousand dollars at a moment's notice. On balance, I think I'd talk it through with the vet and ask if you can try bringing him home with a different painkiller, and see if he does better - you can always take him back in if necessary, but many, many greyhounds do very much better at home. They wanted Sid to come home as soon as possible for that reason. Thank you for hanging with me here, silverfish! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BatterseaBrindl Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 Continued good thoughts..... Quote Nancy...Mom to Sid (Peteles Tiger), Kibo (112 Carlota Galgos) and Joshi. Missing Casey, Gomer, Mona, Penelope, BillieJean, Bandit, Nixon (Starz Sammie), Ruby (Watch Me Dash) Nigel (Nigel), and especially little Mario, waiting at the Bridge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bogangles Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 I have been watching your thread and wishing you well over this terrible ordeal. I am so sorry. If it were my dogs neither of them would do well staying in the clinic and it would be very stressful for them. Is there anyway you could bring Phoenix home safely. As Silverfish said, could they change the painkiller or give him something to coat his stomach to handle the medication. My dog was given Sulcrate to give for her stomach because of her intolerance of metacam. But, of course, this is a much more complicated situation. Hopefully he will be home soon. Our thoughts are with you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spottydog Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 Sending healing thoughts for your Phoenix! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest babyphoenix Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 Thank you all for your continued thoughts! Going to talk to doc tonite about pain med change and whether that might help us. Hoping to get over there to tuck Phoenix in for the night. Hoping tomorrow brings more solidly-good news. oh wait. i do have another question…we're going home with Tramadol. Is that a prescription I should have filled with vet or at regular pharmacy? (I'm not up to speed as to what makes more/less sense with this particular med) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4My2Greys Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 Thank you all for your continued thoughts! Going to talk to doc tonite about pain med change and whether that might help us. Hoping to get over there to tuck Phoenix in for the night. Hoping tomorrow brings more solidly-good news. I'm hoping with you that tomorrow brings better news. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EllenEveBaz Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 I don't have any knowledgeable advice, but join the others in sending healing thoughts for your boy. Quote Ellen, with brindle Milo and the blonde ballerina, Gelsey remembering Eve, Baz, Scout, Romie, Nutmeg, and Jeter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LuvAPuppy Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 Many pharmacies carry Tramadol as a $4.00 Rx for #30, (in the US at least and I didn't notice if you have your location listed). However if he's going home this evening yet and you don't have any nearby 24 hour pharmacies -- bit the bullet and pay more for it at the vet -- don't make him go without Quote Angie, Pewter, and Storm-puppy Forever missing Misty-Mousie (9/9/99 - 10/5/15)Fort Wayne, Indiana Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest babyphoenix Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 Many pharmacies carry Tramadol as a $4.00 Rx for #30, (in the US at least and I didn't notice if you have your location listed). However if he's going home this evening yet and you don't have any nearby 24 hour pharmacies -- bit the bullet and pay more for it at the vet -- don't make him go without yes, US, in Wisconsin we'll hopefully be going home tomorrow so it's on my list of things to get in order. Thanks for the info! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreyTzu Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 Sam's and Walgreen's, here in Florida, both carry Tram. So you can check your local stores. Quote Wendy and The Whole Wherd. American by birth, Southern by choice. "Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup!" ****OxyFresh Vendor ID is 180672239.**** Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmswartzfager Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 In addition to possibly changing the pain medications, you could also ask the vet if they've considered Cerenia, which is an anti-nausea/anti-emetic drug. Quote Deanna with galgo Willow, greyhound Finn, and DH BrianRemembering Marcus (11/16/93 - 11/16/05), Tyler (2/3/01 - 11/6/06), Frazzle (7/2/94 - 7/23/07), Carrie (5/8/96 - 2/24/09), Blitz (3/28/97 - 6/10/11), Symbra (12/30/02 - 7/16/13), Scarlett (10/10/02 - 08/31/13), Wren (5/25/01 - 5/19/14), Rooster (3/7/07 - 8/28/18), Q (2008 - 8/31/19), and Momma Mia (2002 - 12/9/19). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SarahsBlackPack Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 Tramadol is a $4 drug from Walmart. That's were we got Brooke's. Thinking good thoughts for your boy! Quote Sarah, mom to Stella and Winston . And to Prince, Katie Z, Malone, Brooke, Freddie, Angel and Fast who are all waiting at the Bridge!www.gpawisconsin.org Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3greytjoys Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 (edited) Costco pharmacy is an excellent source for pet medications, including Tramadol and Aminocaproic Acid (tablet form), etc. If your vet deems Aminocaproic Acid appropriate for Phoenix, another source is a (human) compounding pharmacy for liquid form (sometimes cheaper than tablets). Beef flavored liquid form of Aminocaproic Acid is considered a delicious treat for Greyhounds. Costco pharmacy is open to the public, and does not require a Costco membership, but members receive a greater discount. Veterinary study estimates >26% of Greyhounds are excessive bleeders. Excessive bleeding can occur beginning day of surgery and/or through approximately Day 4 of recovery. (We currently have three excessive bleeders. Our vet prescribes a 5-day supply of Aminocaproic Acid for all surgeries/recovery. One of our hounds was released post-op, but started internal bleeding while at home 30 hours post-surgery. Aminocaproic Acid has helped our hounds many times.) I'm not sure if you qualify for any of these helpful pet financial programs, but worth a look at all source links on this page: http://www.redrover.org/node/1199 Positive healing thoughts for Phoenix. Edited October 14, 2014 by 3greytjoys Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silverfish Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 We are in England but often get drugs for pets from human pharmacies. Sometimes they're a LOT cheaper online, too, so what I'll do in an emergency is buy a few days' supply from the vet (to make sure I have them quickly) and then ask for a prescription for the rest. One time I took a prescription for Gabapentin into Boots (one of our bigger pharmacies) only to find that they'd been able to buy a ton of it very cheaply and it cost me about £5 instead of about £40! It can work out really well. I hope Phoenix is doing better today. Quote The plural of anecdote is not dataBrambleberry Greyhounds My Etsy Shop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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