Sudden Severe Resting Incontinence - Update Post #25

[PrairieProf]

I am worried about Beth.

 

She had a couple of pee accidents in resting spots in my house maybe six weeks ago (I found wet spots on my bed and on a dog bed). Was going to take her to the vet but nothing further happened. She had peed in the crate once maybe last summer, her first accident in years.

 

Yesterday afternoon she made a medium wet spot in her crate when I left the house for a couple of hours, though I returned before her usual "out" time -- I could see from her wet rear it was pee.

 

Tonight she seemed barky and restless soon after dinner but as it wasn't too long after our walk around 4:30, I disregarded it. She did drink some after dinner. Sometime after 7:00, I found she had peed a small spot on the carpet and then a BIG spot on her dog bed, while lying in the same room with me. Took her out at 7:30 and she peed a good bit.

 

Just about fifteen minutes ago I saw her stretch her legs while lying on the bed and yes -- another sizeable spot of pee! Took her out again and she peed again.

 

Her peeing while out seems normal (she is leash-walked and pees multiple times -- she's a marker), as does her behavior. She did regurgitate her food yesterday morning, which is rare.

 

I'd already planned to try to schedule an afternoon vet visit tomorrow, but now I think I will take her in first thing so she can pee on their bedding while I teach in the morning.

 

I know about spay incontinence and that Beth is the prime age (8), but is this a little extreme, two big resting pees in one night while on a normal walking schedule? Do you think at UTI is possible? Should I be worried about worse possibilities?

Edited June 28, 2014 by PrairieProf

[4My2Greys]

Have her heart and circulatory system checked for clots. I know now that this was the root of Nadir's urinary problems the last 2 years of his life.

[EddiesMom15]

Have her checked for UTI's. The vet may recommend Proin. It certainly helped Missy Pea.

[Fiona3]

Fiona developed incontinence out of the blue last April (usually on her dog beds). When her blood pressure was checked, it was discovered she had hypertension. Within a week of being placed on the blood pressure medication, we noticed the incontinence had started to disappear. Although she is dealing with other health issues, the vets agreed that the high blood pressure was the source of her leaking urine.

[MaryJane]

Get a first morning urine specimen (sterile) and have them culture it for a UTI. DO NOT just give antibiotics without knowing the bacteria (if any). If she does have urinary incontinence, you might want to consider DES rather than Proin because a few people on her (can't remember who) had issues with the Proin (high blood pressure).

[Guest sirsmom]

We're going through this with our girl, too. The vet put her on Simplifex(sp) after a recheck in a week she came up with crystals and bacteria so urine has been sent out for culture and they are doing an xray tomorrow. In the meantime she has been changed to Cipro and seems fine right now. Her symptoms were squatting a hundred times to pee on a walk. But I didn't notice any large pee spots in the house or under her.

[Hawthorn]

I'm going through something a bit similar with Sophie too. She's had four urine accidents whilst asleep/resting in the last 2 weeks, plus on Saturday she started to show signs of being uncomfortable and restless after eating. We went to the vet yesterday who tested a urine specimen for UTI, which was negative. Vet thinks she may have a mild pancreatitis, but not sure if that's related to the urine accidents. Sophie is no better today, and may be a little worse, so we'll be back to the vet tomorrow for blood tests most likely, or sooner if she gets worse.

 

Will be watching for updates about Beth.

[Burpdog]

Have them do a urine culture, not just a test in the office.

 

I would never use Proin.

[CharlieRhea]

I don't use Proin either, instead I use a cloth doggie diaper for my 12 yr old female who has occasional letting go of the bladder when sleeping. Medical issues were ruled out by the vet first.

I did use Proin once and only once as she vomited from it. Then I read the side effects and decided against it anyhow. Now I have 3 doggie diapers and female pads I insert so there is always a fresh one available. It keeps her dry and she doesn't mind it. In fact I think she is happier as she doesn't like wetting herself. Who would?

Do bring Beth to the vet to rule out other issues.

[MaryJane]

I'm going through something a bit similar with Sophie too. She's had four urine accidents whilst asleep/resting in the last 2 weeks, plus on Saturday she started to show signs of being uncomfortable and restless after eating. We went to the vet yesterday who tested a urine specimen for UTI, which was negative. Vet thinks she may have a mild pancreatitis, but not sure if that's related to the urine accidents. Sophie is no better today, and may be a little worse, so we'll be back to the vet tomorrow for blood tests most likely, or sooner if she gets worse.

 

Will be watching for updates about Beth.

 

 

You cannot test for a UTI in 1 day - it takes a few days (about 1 to 2) to have the bacteria grow out and then another day for the sensitivity.

[Guest sireltonsmom]

You might consider a protein/creatine bloodwork panel. Our Mindy (9.5) has had similar issues, gets UTIs too often. Wasn't spayed til 5. We did some investigation and the high protein could affect her kidneys. Vet wants her on omega 3 (made in USA or Canada and no ethoxyquin) and antioxidants. Hard to find the omega3 with those parameters. Good luck to you and Beth.

[RaineysMom]

definitely check for a UTI, but it sounds a lot like urinary incontinence. Our Rainey out of the blue started peeing (in OUR bed!!!) and was checked (no UTI) then put on DES and that fixed her right up. I would never use Proin, several people here had severe issues with it, including a death from it.

[PrairieProf]

Beth is at the vet but unfortunately the vet is home sick with stomach flu. The techs are waiting for him to call them back so they can get approval for tests. I am so stressed out!! I suspect she will have urinalysis and a culture started, I am doubtful they will do bloodwork today. I have already read ALL the past GreyTalk coverage on Proin vs. DES (and Incurin).

 

The good news, I guess, is that Beth had a full blood panel about five weeks ago, which was after the first incontinence incidents in the late winter. The vet didn't see any problems with that, though he might have said one liver value was on the high end, though he wasn't concerned about it.

 

All the techs are saying to me it's not spay incontinence this long after a spay, it's age incontinence, though that violates everything I've read online. :/

[duncan41]

Please do a super chem panel even though one was done 5 weeks ago. A lot can change in that time. Urinalysis to check for the usual culprits, especially concentration, culture and check her blood pressure.

 

I will never give another dog Proin. It cost me my heart dog.

[PrairieProf]

Good news, more or less! After a a rocky start to the morning involving the vet being home with stomach flu, Beth had a full workup with full bloodwork and they found she has quite a bad bladder infection. No signs of kidney problems. So while incontinence cannot be ruled out yet, he thinks the infection is almost certainly what is causing the issue. She's on a course of Simplicef (unless the culture reveals in two days that a different antibiotic is needed). He said she should feel better quickly.

 

Meanwhile, thank Dog I have insurance -- it's a $480+ bill.

Edited April 29, 2014 by PrairieProf

[Kestrel]

Oh, poor Beth--but so glad to hear it! Hope she's feeling much better soon!

[DesiRayMom]

Best wishes for Beth (and her worried human).

[EllenEveBaz]

B is for Better! (as in feeling better)

Edited April 30, 2014 by EllenEveBaz

[PrairieProf]

Well no further incontinence incidents, though I've been taking her out extra. Still anxiously waiting on the culture.

 

I did realize last night that her previous incontinence incidents or a day or two in the beginning of March came right at the end of a long course of Simplicef for a wound on her toe. So either that is not the right antibiotic or the incidents are not directly caused by a UTI. My vet thinks that's a possibility too, but obviously we have to get rid of the UTI before we can speculate about anything else. He also thought such widely spaced incidents did not sound like the traditional onset of a regular incontinence issue.

[Remolacha]

Well, bladder infections are no fun, but at least they can be fixed! that that's all it is.

[Guest sirsmom]

Just wondering if the bladder infection was cured by now. Have you considered adding cranberry to her diet? I'm considering it for ours after this last go around.

[juliemac]

How's Beth recovering?

[PrairieProf]

Hey, thanks for asking about Beth. The news is mixed and a bit confusing.

 

Last Tuesday: She did have a raging bladder infection, and was put on Simplicef. Her bloodwork at the time was normal, one liver enzyme a little elevated but the vet wasn't too concerned.

 

Thursday: I got the report that nothing grew in the urine culture (even though they'd evidently seen bacteria as well as red and white blood cells). This freaked me out a little. The vet did an ultrasound and it showed no tumors, no stones, no thickening of the bladder wall, nothing of concern. She seemed to do well during the week -- no further peeing in the house, though I took her out a lot. She does seem to be drinking extra, though not a HUGE amount.

 

Two days ago: We did a 5K walk in a town about an hour and a half away. She drank quite a lot of water while there, but I assumed it was because she was active and it was warm. On the way home we did a rest stop and I found she had made a puddle in the car. She definitely had a full bladder though.

 

Yesterday: After we got back from our late afternoon walk within an hour she seemed very restless, pacing around. I took her out for a pee. She continued somewhat restless but finally lay down after I gave her a chew treat. But about forty minutes later I found she had leaked on her dog bed. This restlessness and leaking shortly after being out was exactly what happened the first time I posted, although not quite as bad this time. I took her out for a longer walk and after she came back she settled down, had no more leaking and eventually held it through the night just fine.

 

This morning: hustled her back to the vet first thing for another urinalysis. Her urine is not great (still RBC and WBC) but they said greatly improved -- no bacteria, and it was dark yellow rather than orange-brown as it was last week. So evidently the Simplicef is working on the UTI though it's not all gone yet. Vet also wanted to repeat bloodwork. Later reported that that was normal, great, even better than last week.

 

So she is getting better from the UTI, but there are still big unanswered questions about whether the leaking is from the UTI or something else. She did after all have her first incidents in early March after an extended course of Simplicef for a toe wound, so it seems unlikely she had a UTI then. Could be hormone-responsive incontinence, but then what the extra drinking and pacing is about and why has she never leaked in the overnight hours. It looks like further testing is in the future if she has another episode -- but it's a little unclear what might be going on. Atypical Cushing's is one thing we'd test for I think.

 

Meanwhile, most of the time and in most ways she seems perfectly normal. Eating and pooping well, good energy (even though I'm dragging her out for walks like seven times a day instead of four!), no signs of discomfort most of the time, just perhaps hitting the water bowl a bit extra (but it has also finally gotten warm here).

[PrairieProf]

Well for those who are interested, Beth's UTI is well cleared but she is continuing to have intermittent pee incidents (always on the weekend, for some reason). Not TOO bad but we have some travel coming up and I can't have her wetting motels etc. It seems to happen when she has a pretty full bladder and doesn't get out soon enough, soon enough being earlier than her typical next walk. My vet agrees it is probably the onset of hormone-responsive incontinence (and the UTI was probably triggered by the looser sphincter). So we are going to try her on Incurin. He actually hasn't used it before--has had excellent success with DES--but he was not at all averse to giving it a try. So they are ordering it and I hope it will come in tomorrow. Mucho expensivo compared to DES but I presume Beth's insurance will cover it.

Edited May 19, 2014 by PrairieProf

[PrairieProf]

Thought I'd update on this since I hate reading medical threads that trail off and never let future readers know what happened! The short version is that Beth definitely has hormone-responsive incontinence, and Incurin is definitely fixing it.

Beth had zero leaks after starting on the initial dose of two pills a day which she was on for over two weeks, nor on one pill a day which she was on for two weeks -- you are supposed to gradually lower the dose to see how little they need. Well, early this week a few days after moving her down to half a pill every day, she leaked badly again in the evening and the following afternoon. Very distressing BUT it stopped immediately when on my vet's advice I moved her back to the original dose of two pills. She will get that for a bit then go back down to the one-pill dose that she seemed OK on for two weeks. I wish she could have gotten by with a lower dose, but I am super happy the Incurin works so effectively and with zero side effects that I can detect. And this does really confirm both the problem and the solution. Lemme tell ya, once you've had a leaking dog, having a non-leaking one makes you very, very happy.

We did another urinalysis this week with the renewed leaking, and the vet did find some white blood cells, though not a lot and no bacteria. So she's back on antibiotics just to be on the safe side.

Edited June 30, 2014 by PrairieProf