cleptogrey Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 i was just wondering how long ago was truman still actively working in his obedience classes? i know you went thru the trauma w/your own leg and then w/ henry. could some of his behavior be attributed to the shift of focus towards other things? it's natural when horrific incidents in life occur, but i have observed the behavior that you described in my students when there have been either accidents w/ siblings or caregivers. you can not blame yourself for changes, you have taken all the appropiate measures to ensure a stabile environment thru all of this. but would re-enrolling in obedience classes help w/ some of his current obsessive actions? as you can read i have a preference to non-drug type therapies. hopefully giselle will add her input as to positive reinforcement and change which can occur w/o the use of drugs. you dealt w/ this situation beautifully, things happen. boy have you had a rough fall/winter...hopefully spring will melt away all of these issues! keep on sewing!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a_daerr Posted February 18, 2014 Author Share Posted February 18, 2014 i was just wondering how long ago was truman still actively working in his obedience classes? i know you went thru the trauma w/your own leg and then w/ henry. could some of his behavior be attributed to the shift of focus towards other things? it's natural when horrific incidents in life occur, but i have observed the behavior that you described in my students when there have been either accidents w/ siblings or caregivers. you can not blame yourself for changes, you have taken all the appropiate measures to ensure a stabile environment thru all of this. but would re-enrolling in obedience classes help w/ some of his current obsessive actions? as you can read i have a preference to non-drug type therapies. hopefully giselle will add her input as to positive reinforcement and change which can occur w/o the use of drugs. Andrea, you are right on some level. He's always been an anxious dog, but started getting exponentially worse after Henry was diagnosed. He would have panicky meltdowns when I took Henry to appointments by himself. In addition to the compulsive licking and just being generally snarky toward us and other dogs, he started acting very jumpy and jittery all the time. Doesn't want to be touched certain ways. It's frustrating. Since he came home at 15-weeks-old, we have done as much socialization and obedience as can be humanly be expected from a dog owner. So even though we've made a lot of progress through positive reinforcement training, we hit a point where we started wondering, maybe some of this is inherently just the way he is. What more can we expect from him? I do believe that a lot of his anxious behaviors are genetic, especially with being an AKC pup. The Prozac had been giving him some relief without making him a zombie. The licking had stopped completely. I would like to get him back in classes, but I'm not sure he could handle the stress at this point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Remolacha Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 Glad Truman is doing better! That must have been very scary to watch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silverfish Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 Glad to hear he's settling! What a scare! Quote The plural of anecdote is not dataBrambleberry Greyhounds My Etsy Shop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest OPointyDog Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 Wow, very scary - glad you were able to find some answers and that he appears to be on the mend. Keep us posted. I'm constantly dropping pills when I'm preparing medication, so I've started keeping the dogs behind a gate until I'm done - easy to see how that could happen when you've got one that likes "treats"! What about hand-feeding Henry his pills? I make little peanut butter and roast beef burritos that I hand-feed so I know that the pills have gone down. Our previous dog, a GSD x greyhound was a master at spitting out pills. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carronstar Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 Just catching up with all of this. I am so happy that Truman appears to be getting back to himself. I hope he continues to have an uneventful healing period. We can certainly all learn from this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a_daerr Posted February 18, 2014 Author Share Posted February 18, 2014 Just wanted to pop back in and say that Truman is fine. We were a bit worried because when he finally settled, he slept for a VERY long time. He was out cold. I had to keep checking to make sure he was still breathing. But when smacked the Meez and growled at me this morning, I could tell he was back to normal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3greytjoys Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 Great news! He's been through so much, he was probably exhausted from all his medical activity. Glad he's showing signs of his normal behavior. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeylasMom Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 Quote Jen, CPDT-KA with Zuri, lab in a greyhound suit, Violet, formerly known as Faith, Skye, the permanent puppy, Cisco, resident cat, and my baby girl Neyla, forever in my heart "The great thing about science is that you're free to disagree with it, but you'll be wrong." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
schultzlc Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 What a scary thing to go through. I'm glad to hear Truman is on the mend! Quote Laura, mom to Luna (Boc's Duchess) and Nova (Atascocita Venus).Forever in my heart, Phantom (Tequila Nights) and Zippy (Iruska Monte). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carronstar Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 Great news! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Giselle Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 That's great news! That said, it does seem like he got the high ends of dosing for both of those drugs. In my conversations with other veterinary behaviorists who routinely prescribe SSRIs and Trazodone in conjunction with each other, they have rarely (they hesitate to use the word "never", but you know...) seen Serotonin Syndrome. They do always start on the lowest end of maintenance drugs and do not start prescribing Trazodone or other "use-as-needed"/fast acting drugs until the dog has been stable for at least a month out. And, then, the dose is about half of normal, too. Of course, it is highly individual, but Fluoxetine has an incredibly long half-life (almost a week long). So, in retrospect, perhaps it did make sense that a high dose of Fluoxetine plus a high dose of Trazodone triggered the reaction in a sensitive pup. Anyways, that's scary!! Glad it's over! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greysmom Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 Interesting about his anxiety though. I guess I had missed that. Have you read Dennis McKeon's article about greyhound idiopathic fear syndrome? Someone posted it on GT last fall I think. Do you have any contact with any of Truman's littermates to see if any of them are having the same difficulties? Quote Chris - Mom to: Felicity (DeLand), and Andi (Braska Pandora) siggy by Chris Harper, on Flickr Angels: Libby (Everlast), Dorie (Dog Gone Holly), Dude (TNJ VooDoo), Copper (Kid's Copper), Cash (GSI Payncash), Toni (LPH Cry Baby), Whiskey (KT's Phys Ed), Atom, Lilly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramonaghan Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 Great update! So glad he is acting normal again. Quote Rachel with littermates Doolin and Willa, boss cat Tootie, and feline squatters Crumpet and Fezziwig. Missing gentlemen kitties Mud, Henry, and Richard and our beautiful, feisty, silly Sweep. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest lunasmom Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 Yay! Im glad you guys figured it out and he is expected to make a full recovery! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cleptogrey Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 Andrea, you are right on some level. He's always been an anxious dog, but started getting exponentially worse after Henry was diagnosed. He would have panicky meltdowns when I took Henry to appointments by himself. In addition to the compulsive licking and just being generally snarky toward us and other dogs, he started acting very jumpy and jittery all the time. Doesn't want to be touched certain ways. It's frustrating. Since he came home at 15-weeks-old, we have done as much socialization and obedience as can be humanly be expected from a dog owner. So even though we've made a lot of progress through positive reinforcement training, we hit a point where we started wondering, maybe some of this is inherently just the way he is. What more can we expect from him? I do believe that a lot of his anxious behaviors are genetic, especially with being an AKC pup. The Prozac had been giving him some relief without making him a zombie. The licking had stopped completely. I would like to get him back in classes, but I'm not sure he could handle the stress at this point. all of this will come out in the wash. things will settle, the hurricane of crazies will pass and on top of everything truman will mature. some of it can be in his innate personality but some can also be the freaky adolescent stage. that can last forever! funny, the AKC greyhounds that i have know were happy go lucky creatures, it's all in the lines. i have watched calm confident pups(another sighthound breed) become skittish in the ring and then eventually it went the same way it came. hoping for calm waters, calm winds and NO MORE SNOW! not getting him out can also take it's toll! the best phrase i have for what your going thru is: tsuris A Yiddish phrase for worries, stress, or hassle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a_daerr Posted February 19, 2014 Author Share Posted February 19, 2014 Thanks all! As for Truman's littermates, the only one we keep track of is his sister. She is also very anxious, but more in a timid, fearful way. It definitely depends on the lines. Truman is a gorgeous dog- would have shown well. He's just very high strung personality-wise. We love him, though! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeylasMom Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 (edited) That's great news! That said, it does seem like he got the high ends of dosing for both of those drugs. In my conversations with other veterinary behaviorists who routinely prescribe SSRIs and Trazodone in conjunction with each other, they have rarely (they hesitate to use the word "never", but you know...) seen Serotonin Syndrome. They do always start on the lowest end of maintenance drugs and do not start prescribing Trazodone or other "use-as-needed"/fast acting drugs until the dog has been stable for at least a month out. And, then, the dose is about half of normal, too. Of course, it is highly individual, but Fluoxetine has an incredibly long half-life (almost a week long). So, in retrospect, perhaps it did make sense that a high dose of Fluoxetine plus a high dose of Trazodone triggered the reaction in a sensitive pup. Anyways, that's scary!! Glad it's over! FWIW - bit of a hijack here - that hasn't really been my experience. In fact, the veterinary behaviorist that I have worked with told me she typically finds that vets start dogs at about twice the dose they should be started on. She was a fan of Reconcile for that reason simply because the dosing was more appropriate for dogs, versus human pills that come in doses that aren't as appropriate (and thus vets would just round up). That's always stuck with me because I have a bottle of Fluoxitine capsules in my medicine cabinet that I had gotten for Zuri but didn't end up using when I found the DAP collars worked (where the diffuser hadn't). ETA: I now see that you said vet behaviorists. The issue is that most people don't see veterinary behaviorists to get these meds prescribed, they see their regular vets. At which point I refer you to my above comments. Edited February 19, 2014 by NeylasMom Quote Jen, CPDT-KA with Zuri, lab in a greyhound suit, Violet, formerly known as Faith, Skye, the permanent puppy, Cisco, resident cat, and my baby girl Neyla, forever in my heart "The great thing about science is that you're free to disagree with it, but you'll be wrong." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Giselle Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 Yes, I also have found that non-behavior-inclined vets tend to prescribe at the high end. It troubles me because I find that these dogs tend to experience significant side effects (almost always lethargic, sleepy/sedate, etc.) their first 1-2 weeks at the high doses v.s. dogs on half dose show significantly less side effects. This is from my personal experience and with consulting lots of other behavior vets and non-behavior vets. I don't have exact data, but this seems to be the general community consensus now. So, poor Truman! Sounds like he got a real bad double whammy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XTRAWLD Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 Yeah, I give Henry his pills in a glob of peanut butter and spoon it on top of his kibble. He must've spit that one out and left it in his bowl. Then I'm guessing Truman swooped in and ate it when Henry walked away. It probably still tasted like peanut butter. I'm definitely going to be more diligent about making sure Henry actually swallows his pills from now on. It was a good thing that I kept a medi-minder organized so I knew exactly what pills were given, and we were able to narrow it down from there. Thanks. This is helpful to know how to avoid something like this for the rest of us! How scary. Scritches to Truman! Quote Proudly owned by:10 year old "Ryder" CR Redman Gotcha May 201012.5 year old Angel "Kasey" Goodbye Kasey Gotcha July 2005-Aug 1, 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.