Osteo Thread Part V I I

[seeh2o]

Ok, I've had two ABs, the birthday twins are conked out, it's time to go to bed. I think I will actually sleep tonight.

[4My2Greys]

Connie, I'm hoping and praying with you that your vet is right. I was sickened when I read Carl's name here in this thread . Having been around since I joined GT that black boy of yours holds a bit of a special place in my heart.

To all of you fighting this horrible disease my thoughts, hopes, and prayers are with you also.

[Victor]

cas0673, I'm glad to hear Sadie did better yesterday. Lana had quite a bit of swelling in her remaining hind leg after her surgery, too. The vet said to elevate her leg when possible and massage from the paw up several times a day to get the accumulated fluids back into her system. I believe Lana had some blood in her urine initially too. Is Sadie still on amicar?

 

Regarding Sadie's blob, hopefully it's just a seroma that will gradually be reabsorbed by the body. Keep an eye on it, though. Lana had one that kept getting bigger, and it turned out to be an abscess. It was caused by a staph infection that was resistant to the antibiotics Lana was on at the time.

 

Hoping Casper's appointment tomorrow goes well.

[Charlies_Dad]

Chris and Wendy, here is the link to Charlie's diet:

 

http://pinneyandpnut.blogspot.com/p/charlies-cancer-diet.html

 

 

Sadie's mom, yes swelling and peeing blood is 'normal' after amputation especially only days after their amp. For the swelling on Charlie we applied compresses to help reduce it and he did not pee any blood that I noticed but we only brought him home after 5 days in the hospital. I know their bodies are trying to absorb or get rid of the fluid build-up and this is one way they do it. How bad is the swelling? We did not encounter severe swelling but again our boy was in hospital for a while.

Good thoughts for Carl! I hope your vet is right.

And good luck to Casper, I hope we hear good news!

[Guest Greytblackdog]

Question: do you guys think or did you notice if swings in weather, cold/hot, rainy/stormy, etc., impacted your dog's pain level or pain control? Seka's been pretty limpy the last two days kind of out of the blue but we have a weather system moving through.

[greysmom]

Thanks Kyle! I've bookmarked it now!

 

You guys did so much for Charlie! Awesome canine parents!

[seeh2o]

Connie, I'm hoping and praying with you that your vet is right. I was sickened when I read Carl's name here in this thread . Having been around since I joined GT that black boy of yours holds a bit of a special place in my heart.

To all of you fighting this horrible disease my thoughts, hopes, and prayers are with you also.

 

Thank you, Judy. I think we joined GT about the same time back in 2007.

[TwiggysMom]

I'm happy to hear that Sadie started eating again! Being able to get all her meds in is great. Hopefully the "blob" will subside normally over time. Twiggy had quite the "jelly belly" for at least a week post-amp (unrelated to her infection - just normal fluid build-up).

 

It would be fantastic if Carl just is having a weird bone infection related to that nail/foot injury! Weird, non-osteo diagnoses are great, so I'm pulling for a complete resolution with the antibiotics!!

 

Kyle, thank you so much for posting your link. I know you've posted it before, but like Chris, I've got it bookmarked now. This exactly the kind of information people want, and you all put so much thought and research into it, that it is an amazing resource for people.

 

Kim, I'll be thinking of you and Casper tomorrow and hoping his rads show good results from the Palladia.

 

Heather, I'm not sure about weather related specifically to osteo pain, but I know it definitely plays a role in arthritis and other inflamatory conditions, so it seems logical to me that it would be impacting Seka, too. I hope she's feeling better!

 

I'm still waiting with bated breath for Twiggy's radiology report. Her oncologist said that he saw a "couple white spots", but that he felt they were *blood vessels*? (I'm not sure exactly what he said, I think that's it). He thought the radiologist would agree that these weren't anything to worry about, but I don't have either her discharge papers or the actual report yet (supposedly tomorrow). So, still crossing my fingers!

[4My2Greys]

Keeping my fingers crossed with you Wendy.

[greysmom]

[TwiggysMom]

Thanks Judy and Chris - I'm not panicking (aside from my baseline panic level - lol); her oncologist seemed confident enough that all is fine, but of course at this stage literally anything could happen. And also (as you all know) I'm beyond aware that we have already far surpassed amazingly fortunate.

[seeh2o]

You guys in this thread are amazing, so supportive and positive. Thank you and prayers for all of your sweet hounds.

[nessa]

Hello,

I just returned from the Oncology Vet Specialists and the Xrays indicate an early detection of osteo in her right leg at the lower joint ( ankle?)

 

The recommendation is for radiation and Pamidronate IV drip ( 4 weeks radiation, IV drip every 3 weeks).

 

Does anyone have any experience with this? The Dr felt it was early, she does not have any symptoms and the leg bones are still encasing the cancer in her leg (?)

Pamidronate is suppose to strengthen the bone, provide pain relief, and it has been shown to help healthy bone grow back. Too good to be true?

Thanks ahead of time for any thoughts.

Nancy

[krissn333]

Pamidronate is a palliative measure - it is not curative. We did it with Sutra and got good pain relief from it. Make sure it is given with LOTS of fluids as it can cause kidney issues.

[Guest Greyt_dog_lover]

what about amp?

[Victor]

nessa, that does sound too good to be true. I'd suggest a consultation with Dr. Couto.

[tbhounds]

Thanks Judy and Chris - I'm not panicking (aside from my baseline panic level - lol); her oncologist seemed confident enough that all is fine, but of course at this stage literally anything could happen. And also (as you all know) I'm beyond aware that we have already far surpassed amazingly fortunate.

Wendy--those "white spots" are mostly likely blood vessels--they appear as spots when you are seeing them from an end on approach.

Please keep us updated.

[TwiggysMom]

Nancy, I am very sorry to hear about your girl's osteo diagnosis.

 

What the doctor told you about the pamidronates is basically correct. However, the answer to whether it is too good to be true or not is the degree to which you expect it to do those things. As Kristin said, pamidronates are part of a palliative care protocol. Pamidronates, radiation, aggressive pain medication protocols and other holistic options including artemisinin can help some dogs with osteo live comfortably for months (sometimes many months) more than they would otherwise. What they cannot do is cure or reverse osteo.

 

Unfortunately, there is really no cure for osteo, even with aggressive "curative intent" treatment of amputation and chemotherapy. There are rare cases where osteo is caught early enough that the amputation itself cures the osteo, however there is no way to know early on if this has happened (if a dog survives 4-5+ years, you can usually infer that the dog has been cured, but there still is no proof), so typically owners who are trying for a year or more of osteo survival will also choose iv chemo. The chemo will not cure osteo, it just keeps metastasis at bay for some period of time; sometimes only a few months, sometimes a few years - again, no way to know which of these you will get.

 

The real kicker is that while typically survival times are much shorter for dogs who receive palliative care versus amp/chemo, this is not always the case. Some palliative care dogs live a year or more, and some amp/chemo dogs only survive a few months.

 

Which route you choose is very personal, and depends on the dog (health/physical condition/temprament, etc.), as well as your personal and household circumstances. Cost can also be a factor, but both palliative care and amp/chemo are very expensive. The cost of radiation and pamidronates add up very quickly - I think a lot of people aren't expecting that.

 

 

Edited to add:

 

Tracy, we were posting at the same time. That is really good to hear, because I'm pretty sure that's what he said. I still haven't heard back from them. I'll try calling them again tomorrow.

Edited February 28, 2014 by TwiggysMom

[nessa]

Thanks for the responses.

We are not in a position to do the amputation and do not want to go that route. She has no symptoms and it does seem we got to it early? The bone still looks good on either side or around it ( I am sure you all know more then I do about what I am trying to describe), and the Dr felt we could go this route for whatever results we would get. I am still a bit foggy about all of this and what to think but amputation is not on the table.

 

This Dr works with the program at U of Penn and knows Dr Couto as well. That made me feel a little better about things??!

[45MPHK9]

I'm so sorry to see this, Nancy.

[nessa]

Thanks Tricia, I am excellent at denial and hopeful thinking and I choose to think the best of this treatment - what choice do I have?-

 

She is the strongest, toughest girlie and she does not even know anything is wrong. ! Maybe she will be a medical miracle . that is my story and i am sticking to it........

[Guest cas0673]

Nancy, did you go to Hope Vet Specialists? Dr. Vickery? I am in Reading, PA, just saw you are in West Chester. I have an appointment with her on Wednesday to start Sadie's chemo. I had Sadie's sample sent to u of penn. We should hear, something next week.

[Guest cas0673]

Sadie is doing "ok". Her two legs are swollen. And I think they are heavy for her. She had a problem coming up the steps from our yard and fell on the top step. Poor girl. I hate that. But she does everything so quick so using a harness is hard with her. She is also a sensitive dog. So even when I just reach for her leash on her collar she starts screaming. Her urine is very concentrated the vet said. Sadie peed on our rug at home this a.m.. Then finish it on the vets rug:(. But I didn't let her out after she peed in the house. I figured she finished in the house. So some of that was my fault. Vet didn't think there was a UTI. I heard all the extra fluids need to be expelled from the body and it comes out in the urine. I can't wait until she has no more issues. She was doing real good getting around until her legs got swollen.

[krissn333]

One thing about pamidronate...many docs hold off on giving it until pain relief is needed. Giving it now isn't going to do much except tax the kidneys, unfortunately.

[Guest Greytblackdog]

That's what the radiation oncologist at Auburn told me too about pamidronate. It also depends on the age of the dog as well how soon he uses it. We think we'll get our first round a week from monday, three weeks after our last radiation treatment.