Osteo Thread Part V I I

[BauersMom]

Add Berkeley to list of "wasn't limping enough for it to be osteo" club. He even had a period of several months were the limp resolved completely, and at the time of his amp, he was still using his leg to run, etc. And when he broke his other leg, there were no signs either. Vets really shouldn't use that to rule out osteo.

[Guest cas0673]

I definitely will see what happens with the second set of X-rays. I think I am going to consult with Dr. Couto also. The other thing was I really wanted to have this all done by now. I am going to check on the details from the biopsy. I would've guessed they checked for any kind of cancer or anything else. She is limping pretty bad again today.

[Guest fastcasper]

My vet saw something that looked like cancer on an x-ray in early May. Two day later we went to see an Oncologist and four days later had a bone biopsy done. They took four very good bone samples from him. The results came back inconclusive (which is very common I understand). Every week or so he went in for x-rays to see if there were any changes. He had no changes for over 5 weeks. He started to develop a lump on his wrist. They were able to get a needle aspirate and the results were finally confirmed that it was ostero. The next week (July 1), he went in for his amputation. Also, he NEVER was lame, or limped the whole time. The vets tested and tested to see if they could detect pain, and they could not. I kept him four legged for almost two months because I needed to be sure it was cancer. I am probably paying the price now because he has progressive tumors in his lungs. But he had a hard enough time with adapting to three legs as it was.

 

Update: Casper seems to be tolerating the Palladia fine. He has done 4 doses and gets weekends off. I may be my imagination, but I think he is "hacking" just a little less. Also, his voice became horse and seemed to have lost his voice. I really don't think it was the tumors as it seemed to be coming from his throat. I bought a humidifier which we use in the bedroom at night (feels like the rain forest in there). He also have been giving him a little bit of honey each day. Today I came home and he was at the door and actually had a little bark!! My heart soared to the sky.

 

One thing that is concerning me is I think either he hurt his other wrist again (playing in the yard), or maybe cancer is there. My oncologist doesn't want Casper on Deramaxx so I have only been icing it. From his wrist down to the base of his toes, it looks slightly swollen. Ice wasn't touching it, so this weekend I put him back on Deramaxx just to see if it helps. His tummy is fine, but I think I may not mentioned to doc I did this. I will give him another does of the Derm tonight and then stop because he is back to Palladia tomorrow morning. He goes in for BW and exam on the 13th.

 

Kim and Casper

[Victor]

Glad to hear Casper seems to be tolerating the Palladia! Have you mentioned the hoarseness to Casper's oncologist? It might be worth asking about. Also, maybe you should get x-rays of his other wrist?

 

I'm sorry to hear Sadie's biopsies were inconclusive. Hopefully Dr. Couto will have some advice for you.

[Guest fastcasper]

Hi Victor,

I did call them last week and they didn't seemed too concerned about it. When he goes in on Thursday they will do a good exam on him. I'm pretty sure they will want to x-ray his wrist. I have been measuring it, and it is not getting any bigger (nor smaller), but he seemed better on it today. I'm doing cold/warm contrast treatment on him today and trying to elevate his paw as best I can. He is not in obvious pain (no panting, or restlessness with it), he just hesitates with it some times. I wish these pups weren't so stoic!

 

The pessimistic side of me says, if he is tolerating the Palladia, then it may not be working. He is on 80 mg which is a slightly lower dose. Doc wanted to go conservative to see how he did on it first. He may bump that up on Thursday.

 

Kim and Casper

[Victor]

Fingers crossed that Casper's appointment on Thursday goes well!

[TwiggysMom]

Alicia, how many treatments is Henry getting, I think you may have said 4 total? I'm glad he's been sailing through the chemo, and here's to that continuing!

 

Re: Sadie's inconclusive biopsies, I think that as you said, inconclusive results are fairly common. In general, it seems that that if something looks like bone cancer on xray, it most likely is (esepcially with greyhounds and osteo in particular). When I demanded xrays for Twiggy 3 days after she started limping, I'm pretty sure the whole office rolled their eyes behind my back, and her vet was clearly shocked when she actually saw something on the films. Even then, she offered up fungal bone infection likely alternative to osteo; though she may have been just trying to alleviate my fears (OSU confirmed this was almost certainly osteo a couple days later - and of course, it was), I wish I (or anyone) could confidently tell you what the best course of action is for Sadie, but no one can. Has UPenn seen her? They might be a good place to have look at her, especially since you're interested in their study.

 

I hope that you can get enough information to be comfortable in making a treatment decision. Just making a decision is one of the most difficult steps.

 

 

Kim, I am so glad to hear that Casper is tolerating the Palladia so far! I know many, many dogs do very well on it. Casper - keep on barking!!

[a_daerr]

Alicia, how many treatments is Henry getting, I think you may have said 4 total? I'm glad he's been sailing through the chemo, and here's to that continuing!

 

Five total. If all goes as planned, March 22 will be his last one.

[TwiggysMom]

 

Five total. If all goes as planned, March 22 will be his last one.

Great! I was so glad that Twiggy was on a winter iv chemo schedule - we never had any good-weather down time (except for a few weeks when the Palladia/Metacam combo was taking too much of a toll).

 

Henry should be feeling awesome by GIG!!!

[a_daerr]

Great! I was so glad that Twiggy was on a winter iv chemo schedule - we never had any good-weather down time (except for a few weeks when the Palladia/Metacam combo was taking too much of a toll).

 

Henry should be feeling awesome by GIG!!!

 

Oh definitely. I'm sure he'll be ready for the Speed Run.

I'm thinking about also taking him to Sandy Paws at the end of March to celebrate (money and chemo permitting).

[Guest cas0673]

Sadie is limping really bad. I can not wait to go to the vet today. I am pretty sure the X-rays will show that it got worst. My decision may be to just leave her there tonight if they can operate tomorrow. We are supposed to get bad weather Wednesday night into Thursday.

[a_daerr]

Sadie is limping really bad. I can not wait to go to the vet today. I am pretty sure the X-rays will show that it got worst. My decision may be to just leave her there tonight if they can operate tomorrow. We are supposed to get bad weather Wednesday night into Thursday.

 

Keep us updated.

[tbhounds]

Sadie is limping really bad. I can not wait to go to the vet today. I am pretty sure the X-rays will show that it got worst. My decision may be to just leave her there tonight if they can operate tomorrow. We are supposed to get bad weather Wednesday night into Thursday.

Sending good thoughts. Please make sure your vets are aware about using Amicar post amp (if it goes that direction) .

[Guest fastcasper]

Thinking of you and Sadie.

 

I took Casper to the vet today because his paw wasn't getting any better and he seemed more lame today and unhappy. They took x-rays and there is no fracture or tumor, so it's another sprain. Him and Wynnie need to cool it a little when they play. He is off Palladia (at least for tomorrow), on Deramaxx and Tramadol for the time being. He wants to get him more comfortable. He will check in on Thursday and if he is better we will go back to Palladia. If not, we will resume on Monday. I am relieved it wasn't a tumor in his wrist.

 

Kim and Casper

[TwiggysMom]

My best wishes to you and Sadie. I am thinking of you both today.

 

Kim, that sounds like good news! Twiggy once had a muscle strain so bad I thought for sure I was going to lose her that day (certain osteo was back in her hind leg). With good meds and very strict rest, she was good as new in a few weeks. I very well know the relief of "not another tumor". For what its worth, Twiggy's oncologist doesn't get too hung up on med schedules (obviously he has his idea of "ideal"), because no one really knows exactly how much or little or how frequently or intermittent any particular med will work with anyy particular dog's cancer. You just have to do what is right in the moment.

[Guest cas0673]

Back from the Vet. We did another X-ray of Sadie's "wrist". And her opinion was that it looked like the bone was healing. She showed me the 2 X-rays side by side. And the area that is swollen did look different. She said the outside edge looked smoother to her, not as bumpy as the 1st X-ray. The ortho vet there said the same thing. He also thought to put her on a stronger antibiotic and recheck it in two weeks. The Vet also thought that the area she took the biopsy from looked like the bone healed up. And said it wouldn't do that if it was cancer. So I asked them to send the X-rays and info to Dr. Couto through the consultation service he has now. She gave me another antibiotic for her to treat it as a bone infection while we wait for Dr. Couto's consult. As for Sadie, she seems to be hurting worst. Limping very bad. It is really slowing her down, which is unusual for our Sadie. She goes goes goes. So we shall see. I just don't want anything to get worse, if it is osteo or something else. And if it is osteo, I don't want it to get out of control before we can do anything about it.

[a_daerr]

I am relieved it wasn't a tumor in his wrist.

 

That's fabulous news! Yay!

[TwiggysMom]

Back from the Vet. We did another X-ray of Sadie's "wrist". And her opinion was that it looked like the bone was healing. She showed me the 2 X-rays side by side. And the area that is swollen did look different. She said the outside edge looked smoother to her, not as bumpy as the 1st X-ray. The ortho vet there said the same thing. He also thought to put her on a stronger antibiotic and recheck it in two weeks. The Vet also thought that the area she took the biopsy from looked like the bone healed up. And said it wouldn't do that if it was cancer. So I asked them to send the X-rays and info to Dr. Couto through the consultation service he has now. She gave me another antibiotic for her to treat it as a bone infection while we wait for Dr. Couto's consult. As for Sadie, she seems to be hurting worst. Limping very bad. It is really slowing her down, which is unusual for our Sadie. She goes goes goes. So we shall see. I just don't want anything to get worse, if it is osteo or something else. And if it is osteo, I don't want it to get out of control before we can do anything about it.

That would be so fabulous! As Henry proves, it isn't always osteo. I so hope it is a (rare for greys) bone infection that can be completely resolved!

[Guest cas0673]

After looking back a bit on this thread I don't know if I answered a question. Sadie had a bone biopsy. Which I see can miss the cancer. I see that Henry had a different cancer.

Edited February 12, 2014 by cas0673

[a_daerr]

After looking back a bit on this thread I don't know if I answered a question. Sadie had a bone biopsy. Which I see can miss the cancer. I see that Henry had a different cancer.

 

Right. Henry's original x-rays showed a tumor on his tibia, which had pretty much eaten through the bone itself. There were lesions all through it- the bone was not strong enough to be salvaged. They did a fine needle aspirate of the tumor, which showed malignant cancer cells. All signs pointed to osteosarcoma. We (the oncologist, surgeons, and myself) made the decision to amputate based on everything we knew about osteo and greyhounds. After the amputation, they send sections of the tumor out for biopsy, and at that point, we got the specific pathology results back. We were surprised to learn that Henry actually had a very rare form of soft tissue cancer called "spindle cell." So basically, instead of the having actual "bone cancer," Henry's cancer affected the soft tissue cells surrounding the bone. We've had to follow the same protocol as dogs with osteo (amputation and chemotherapy) but Henry's prognosis is a good deal better since spindle cell doesn't often metastasize to other areas of the body. It's less likely that the cancer will spread to the lungs or other limbs. We're hoping it's just a "one and done" thing.

[Guest Greytblackdog]

Awesome news for both Sadie and Casper! No OS = good news in my book.

 

We did our first round of chemo on Monday. They had to delay a week because her WBC was 1700. After a recheck the next day it was 4700. Then on Monday, it was back down to 2000, but they did the chemo anyway with a lower dose than anticipated b/c they didn't want to keep putting it off. Who knows what her WBC is doing.

 

She seems to be ok. I'm taking her temp every 6 to 8 hours and nothing has spiked yet. I am armed with antibiotics if it happens. She's taken nausea meds (1x a day) but she really doesn't want to eat real food. I feed raw and with her immune system having a mind of its own, they want me to cook her food instead of feeding it raw. I guess my cooking stinks b/c she doesn't want it cooked. She wants it raw. Anyone feed raw while doing chemo? I don't want to do anything that might give her an infection, but I need her to eat something other than treats. (I've cooked her chicken and I cooked the raw meat blend she eats and she doesn't have anything to do with it).

[Guest fastcasper]

Thank you for the words of encouragement!! Yes, my doc says we put cancer "on hold" for a couple of days and put a pain protocol into place because at this point it is quality of life. Casper will probably resume on Friday. He is in better spirits today (thanks to more pain meds and anti-inflammatory med). I am still trying to ice the sucker. His wrist is still pretty swollen especially after being on it and nervous yesterday at the vets.

 

We are getting a snow storm tonight into tomorrow. About 5-10 inches. Casper LOVES playing in the snow, but he is on strict "bed rest".

 

Kim and Casper

[Guest fastcasper]

I hope Sadie's results are not osteo. Dr. Couto will get back to you soon with his thoughts. Casper had a bone biopsy done and his bone did heal back up even though he did have osteo. I don't want to scare you but to be aware that the bone can heal back with the disease. Dr. Couto thinks bone biopsies are fairly inaccurate and that needle aspiration are much better. My fingers and toes are crossed for you (as Casper's toes and tail is too!).

 

My doc gave Casper when he was on chemo along with anti-nausea med, a appetite stimulant as well. Which was really helpful because Casper lost his appetite and he is a very picky eater (not food motivated at all). Be aware that chemo messes up their taste buds. So, if she wants raw, then do it as next week she may turn her nose up at that!

 

Henry is a very lucky boy indeed not to have this nasty disease.

 

Kim and Casper

[Guest cas0673]

Thank you Kim for the info about the bone can rebuild. Dr. Couto did get back to me. And he said statistically, X-rays that look like that are osteo. He said he could see 300-500 greys that have osteo to only 1 grey that it was an infection. He suggested the fine needle aspirates. I am going to leave a message for the vet and see if I have that done, how long it will be to get the results. The bone biopsy we had to wait like 8-9 days for those results. I thought I had aspirates on a bump she has when we got her, and we got results back the next day. I DO NOT want it to go on. She is limping pretty bad and holding the paw up when she is standing. I might be able to go to my vet in my town for that test, if it would be quicker. And plus I wouldn't have to drive so far. But it wouldn't be able to get done until Tuesday in town. But the out of town vet is 24 hrs and I could take her up after work one day this weekend. But will they be sent out that day or Monday anyway?? Oh my, my head spins sometimes.

[a_daerr]

I'm sorry... I was hoping it was something benign, but I feel like Dr. Couto is probably right on this one. If you're close to Penn, I'd probably just take her there. Or maybe someone on this board can get you a reference of a grey savvy vet/oncologist in your area. Amputation is a temporary solution. Greys with osteo have the best chances with a combination of amputation and chemotherapy.

 

Sending good thoughts for your girl. : goodluck