Sherman Has Cancer.

[Houndtime]

I am so sad and sorry to read this. I wish you many good days with Sherman. Take photos and make memories.

I do hate cancer.

[grey14me]

[Guest K9_Lady]

Gentle hugs being sent for Sherman.

[Guest zoolaine]

I am sorry you have to go through this. Sunny did have panting and some anxiety when he started Tramadol but it only lasted for a few days then he adjusted to it. (he is on it for cutaneous lymphoma and a hurt leg). I know how emotionally taxing it is to make sure you are doing the right thing for the dog and not you. But I know that any decision you make with love is the right one.

[carronstar]

I do not want to kill my dog, the grey love of my life, but I want him to be happy, and not make the last weeks of his life painful, and not has happy as active as they are now. I want peace for him, DH and I, and Patton (his brother.) In my entire life I have never had to lose a pet, so I have no idea how to handle this.

 

You have received so much good advice already. What you said above REALLY resonated with me though. When Scarlett was diagnosed, and I had to let her go, I felt like I was killing my best friend. Unlike you, I had already lost many pets over the years as I grew up breeding and showing poodles. It sucks in every possible way. There is no getting past that. The only difference was that they had all died in puppyhood or as adults. I had never had to make the decision to let one go. Letting Scarlett go tore me up more than deciding to take my grandmother off life support and I absolutely adored my grandmother so that decision was heartrending. It took me a very, very, very long time to accept and understand that I had to speak for Scarlett and that I was not, in fact, killing my best friend. Neither are you. You are choosing to make the most difficult, but ultimately the kindest and most loving decision you can make for Sherman. It is going to take you a while to believe that but please do believe it.

 

The sad truth is that you will handle this, you will find your way through it, you have no choice. We are all here for you. You can cry to us when you don't want Sherman to see you sad. You can know that we have, almost all of us, been where you are right now.

 

Kiss Sherman, make memories with him, take pictures of him. All of that will stay with you forever.

[Guest Spencers_Greyt]

I'm so sorry about this news on Sherman. I know it's devastating! My heart and prayers go out to you and Sherman!

[brandimom]

No advice at this end but wanted you to know that Sherman is in our prayers. Kelly you are also in our prayers for the strength you will need during this difficult time.

[FiveRoooooers]

First of all, I am so sorry about Sherman's diagnosis... It's the cruelest cut of all.

 

Regarding "knowing" when the time has come, my best friend suggested (when my heart dog, Rhoda had kidney failure) that when she starts to "look inward" as opposed to out.. that will be the time. This too, had me worried, that I wouldn't recognize that look. Well, it was so obvious when it finally happened, I never forgot her words.

 

Rhoda had been a very happy dog. Every photo I had of her, she was smiling.. then, at the end, the smiles stopped, and I took a photo of her which, to me, signaled what I had been waiting for, (though not hoping to really see).

It goes along with "better a day too soon" ideology, which I totally subscribe to.

What you are looking for is a change in his "social" behavior. Not his panting or his reaction to his meds.

Luckily, you have all members of this board for support. They will help, guide and love you and Sherman right till end, and then hug and support you when it's done.

I hope you can get more quality time with him.

Hugs from PA

Maxine

This is so well stated. You will know when it is time. Until then, love him up and enjoy every single minute with Sherman. As horribly difficult as it is for you having this dx, Sherman is so fortunate to have you loving and caring for him.

[DustysMom]

So sorry to hear about Sherman's diagnosis. My thoughts are with you

[maggiespet]

I'm so, so very sorry. I'll pray for Sherman and that you will still have some very good and loving time to share with each other.

[Guest Heehoo]

My heart goes out to you.

 

Re pain control, talk to your vet, but you can probably dose at 150mg tramadol every 6 hours and add an anti-inflammatory such as Rimadyl/Deramaxx as well.

 

Sending hugs for yourself and gentle scritchies for your sweet boy.

 

 

What Jey said.

I am so sorry about this. When Gogh Dear & Bool all had cancer it was during the winter months so I never saw the panting with them. But I could tell they were all sad....as was I. Dear eventually became depressed.

My only suggestion is keeping him cooler. Take lots of pictures, spend a lot of time with him & make lots of memories.

[RobinM]

I am so sorry to hear of Sherman's diagnosis.

[Jackandgrey]

I'm so very sorry.

 

It can be hard to tell whether the panting is due to pain or the medications, but since you've just started the Tramadol, odds are it's pain. With my OS puppers, we used an NSAID (Metacam) once per day (standard dosage) and Tramadol 3X/day (increasing the dosage as needed). Depending on his tolerance, you might be able to give him a lot more medicine before he seems drugged.

 

 

Yes this for sure. The combination of medication is much more effective. And three times a day for the Tramadol works better than twice. Don't worry about him being doped. He will be okay. Sometimes with the pain relief they may sleep a lot more initially but he will become accustomed to the drug so that he functions normally. I started with 50 mg of Tramadol and occasionally gave him 100 as he needed it. I didn't need to give him the maximum till very near the end. But I did give it three times a day. The vet almost always says twice to start. That usually is not enough for palliative relief.

[Guest Paige12]

God, this hurts. All these pain medications, all this pain, I cannot handle it for him.

He is still eating, drinking, and took a very short walkie this morning. (I couldn't help myself, he got excited when he saw me put my sneakers on for a walk.) Only a very short walk. I did not want to aggravate his pain.

Is it worth it to keep Sherman alive and manage this very painful disease? Is it worth it to keep him alive in constant discomfort, or let him go before it starts to get worse. Is it worth it to keep medicating him, so we can keep him longer? I want to remember my happy, pain-free Sherman, and I do not want him in pain.

He woke me up several times panting last night. The vet said the panting is from pain. He said if his wrist starts to swell, there is really nothing we can do about it, just cold compresses. God, I do not know what to do, I don't want to let him go, if he is still eating, and drinking, and a little bit of enjoyment from bones. But, I do not want to see him suddenly decline, and not be prepared to let him go. Is that selfish? Is that wrong? When we have to let him go, I want to take a little time off, and work from home several days to keep an eye on Patton. I feel like I need to be prepared for this. I do not want to kill my dog, the grey love of my life, but I want him to be happy, and not make the last weeks of his life painful, and not has happy as active as they are now. I want peace for him, DH and I, and Patton (his brother.) In my entire life I have never had to lose a pet, so I have no idea how to handle this.

It is so painful for me to read your words, I know exactly how you are feeling. It is what I went through trying to make a decision with Paige who was my forever dog. I didn't want her to suffer, but I didn't want her to go too soon. Everyone kept saying I would know and I guess I did. One morning she refused to get up, she lay on her bed and gave me a look and I knew. Knowing it was time didn't make it any easier. You and Sherman are so much in my prayers. Here is one of my sayings that gets me through the tough times like this, I hope it helps you.

"It came to me that every time I lose a dog they take a piece of my heart with them. And every new dog who comes into my life gifts me with a piece of their heart. If I live long enough, all the components of my heart will be dog, and I will become as generous and loving as they are" Unknown. --- Sorry so long, just wanted to share with you.

[Remolacha]

I am so sorry to hear this As others have said, you can combine pain meds and increase dosage until they are effective. Your vet will guide you on this. Make the most of the time you have left, and I hope there are many more good days

[Guest Stripeyfan]

I am SO sorry to hear this. Sending many hugs. :grouphug

[Guest K9Cookies]

Give Sherman a hug from us. I'm so sorry to hear about the diagnosis.

[Guest Shermanator]

I am heading to the vet today for some help in pain management. It hurts me so bad. I can't focus at all.

[Guest Smiley]

Oh no, no, no. I am so, so sorry. I'm checking in on this thread while on vacation as you and Sherman have been on my mind. I was so hoping for good news. I can feel the pain in your posts and oh how I understand. In the last 5 months we have experienced the emotional roller coaster that this disease brings as we have lost both of ours to osteo. There are no words I can say to bring comfort as you walk this painful journey, but know that you are not alone. I am sending you both many hugs and thoughts of peace . . .

 

PS- Dr. Couto has (or at least used to have) his pain mgmt. protocol listed on his website. We faxed this to our vet to help him get the pain "cocktail" right.

Edited June 15, 2010 by Smiley

[Guest UESBrindle]

I'm so sorry to hear this. I'm sure you'll know when it's time.

[Pepsi2004]

We just went through this with Foley - the vet had her on rimadol and tramadol, as well as an opiate. I found that her pain escalated very quickly and palliative care was for a short time. She too, panted a lot - you will know when it is time. My thoughts are with you, as I am still reeling from my experience.

[Guest BradyzMommy]

I am so sorry for this diagnosis.

[NeylasMom]

First, I am so sorry that you're going thorough this. You are not alone. I know of at least a couple of toher GT members going through this right now, including me. It SUCKS!! There is no way around that.

 

Have you consulted with an oncologist? If not, can I suggest that you do that asap, both to get more appropriate pain management options, and also so someone can confirm the dx and tell you how far along/how much bone deterioration is to help you make your decisions? Also, I second the rec to test for valley fever. It isn't an option for us, but given where you live, it is a possibility and it mimics the appearance/symptoms of cancer.

 

Some other pain management options you could consider - palliative radiation (according to my radiation oncologist 50-70% of dogs show improvement within 7-10 days and it can last up to 4 months; he recommends a protocol of 2 doses 2 days in a row rather than weekly for 4 weeks), IV pamidronate or oral fosamax (risk of kidney side effects but givenw hat you are dealing iwth it is will worth considering imo). Also, I have read that cancer pain has 3 sources and you need to treat all 3, which includes something like Tramadol, an NSAID (I like Deramaxx over Rimadyl personally), and a nuerological drug - Gabapentin seems to be the most commonly used.

 

There are lots of holistic options out there as well - one that gets lots of "street cred" and is actually being used by Dr. Couto is artemisinin. But honestly, I think knowing where you are with teh disease is a good starting place. I think an oncologist will be able to help you a lot more than your own vet, unless yoru vet is willing to consult with other vets and do the research. There's just too much info out there for a non-oncologist to be able to give you your options.

 

Two highly recommended reads:

Bone Cancer in Dogs - really good starting point, TONS of information about different treatment options

Article about effective pain mgt

 

I could never tell you when the right time to let Sherman go is, but I do understand how overwhelming it can be to get this news. I would suggest giving yourself a couple of days to process the diagnosis and get him on a good pain mgt plan and then decide what you think is best - I know the first few days I was in a tailspin and just needed to process the dx and then get info before I could make my decision. Hugs, and please feel free to PM me if you want more info or links on anything - I have done an INSANE amount of research and have also spent loads of money consulting with multiple oncologists and a holistic vet.

[joejoesmom]

My heart goes out to you. I have a few thoughts and suggestions.

 

When you decide the time is right you will NOT be "killing" your dog. You will be allowing him to pass with dignity and minimal suffering. Most of us humans hope we will go in the same way. Very few of us would prefer to stay alive at all costs, continuing on for a few more weeks in pain and misery.

 

I echo everyone else who says that you will know. When he's ready, your Sherman will stop being Sherman and will look inward. That is the best way I can describe it.

 

Now for suggestions:

 

Definitely email or mail his xrays to Dr. Couto. Although it is not common, there have been times he has reviewed xrays and accurately determined that it wasn't cancer. If nothing else, he will confirm the diagnosis so you will not have any doubts that you are doing the right thing for Sherman. Dr. Couto's email is couto.1@osu.edu

 

Often a combination of tramadol, an NSAID (deramaxx or metacam), and gabapentin (Brand name Neurontin) provides more relief than individual drugs alone. You may need to change to an actual opiate for more pain relief. Tramadol and opiates commonly cause panting. All of these medications, except for the NSAID, are available at human pharmacies. Check out the prices before purchasing from your vet.

 

No one has mentioned this yet. OS affects the strength of bones. Therefore, it is easy for a dog to break the bone at the site of the osteo. Of course, this is incredibly painful. If this happens, you will have no choice but to let him go or amputate.

 

If the osteo hasn't spread to the lungs, amputation with chemo is a very viable (but somewhat costly) option. Unfortunately, even if the lung xray is clear, there may be microscopic metastases. If there are no metastases, the average life expectancy after amputation is 12 to 18 months -- a few are lucky and live for several years more. Of course, if there are any mets, you may have just a few months. In any case, amputation removes the cause of the pain. After a few weeks the dog is typically very happy and pain free. Most are getting around on their own after just one to two weeks. It is always amazing to me how quickly they recover.

 

OSU will provide the chemo drugs at no charge. You would need to pay for the amputation and administration of the chemo. The chemo is typically administered via a slow drip. The only "pain" for the dog is the insertion of the IV. Since chemo for dogs is administered at much lower doses than for humans, there is considerably less side affects than humans face. Many dogs experience no side affects. Most have no more than a day or two of stomach upset.

 

Prices for amputation and chemo administration vary considerably with the area of the country and the vet. At OSU, they typically quote the amputation (inclusive of ICU and step down care) at $2800 to $3500. A typical course of chemo (including blood tests) is $500 to $800.

 

You know your dog best. Any decision you make will be out of love and respect for Sherman. Only you can determine what will be best for him.

 

I am so sorry that you and Sherman are facing this.

[EllenEveBaz]